The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

By the way, how many of you can recite the Bill of Rights verbatim? If not I would suggest memorizing it. I thought I could recite it but was off in a couple of passages. I will correct that forthwith.

Certainly not me. Although, I can recite the budweiser beer label verbatim. This is the famous Budweiser beer...

On a good day I can recite the Law and Order intro:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

[John A Arkansawyer]

By the way, how many of you can recite the Bill of Rights verbatim? If not I would suggest memorizing it. I thought I could recite it but was off in a couple of passages. I will correct that forthwith.

I don't see the point in learning it before it's changed. My understanding is that it's going to be a +lot+ shorter. Easier to remember, too. Especially while you're balancing on one leg and touching your reporter's notebook to the back of your head.

[Tequila Cowboy]

On a good day I can recite the Law and Order intro:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

This made Beth happy. Sometimes she walks around the house reciting this


In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous.
In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit. These are their stories .

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

On a good day I can recite the Law and Order intro:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

This made Beth happy. Sometimes she walks around the house reciting this


In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous.
In New York City, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Special Victims Unit. These are their stories .

we are such L&O junkies here. Sometimes I'll just look at Jen and simply say, "especially heinous"

[beantownbubba]

BOOM! Everything that's wrong w/ politics today unintentionally summed up in a casually tossed off couple of sentences in today's WaPo:

" it seems doubtful that Trump will be able to get Democrats to help him pass his nontraditional Republican policies. Politics, after all, is zero sum. If you win an election, that means I've lost it. There's no incentive for Democrats to make Trump a successful president, just like there wasn't for Republicans with Obama."

Fuck everyone. Fuck everything. This is a goddamn nightmare.

[whatwouldcooleydo?]

Trump calls for jailing, revoking citizenship of flag-burners

glad to see he's focusing on issues of such immediate urgency

[Zip City]

Trump calls for jailing, revoking citizenship of flag-burners

glad to see he's focusing on issues of such immediate urgency

In other words: "Trump taunts protestors into burning flags so he can demonize them"

[beantownbubba]

Trump calls for jailing, revoking citizenship of flag-burners

glad to see he's focusing on issues of such immediate urgency

Never mind all the things that are seriously wrong with this, I was struck by this: Flag burning should be punished by a year in jail or loss of citizenship. Ummmm, are those things even remotely equivalent? Are they even on the same planet? WTF?

I didn't save it but there's a link there to an interesting, mostly on target, article on how the press should cover Trump. At least the mainstream media recognizes the problem and is struggling w/ it, but they're nowhere near "there" yet and this piece has some good suggestions. How to not get manipulated while reporting on manipulation and how to not further circulate lies while reporting on lies are not easy challenges.

[beantownbubba]

It has now been proven beyond a doubt that the universe has a sense of humor: David Petraeus for Secy of State??!!! Lock him up!

[Beebs]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/busin ... .html?_r=0

I don't think the article ever says what exactly the deal is. Call me cynical, but I could see him selling out just about anything the engineer a "victory".

My favorite piece...

And just as only a confirmed anti-Communist like Richard Nixon could go to China, so only a businessman like Mr. Trump could take on corporate America without being called a Bernie Sanders-style socialist. If Barack Obama had tried the same maneuver, he’d probably have drawn criticism for intervening in the free market.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/busin ... .html?_r=0

I don't think the article ever says what exactly the deal is. Call me cynical, but I could see him selling out just about anything the engineer a "victory".

My favorite piece...

And just as only a confirmed anti-Communist like Richard Nixon could go to China, so only a businessman like Mr. Trump could take on corporate America without being called a Bernie Sanders-style socialist. If Barack Obama had tried the same maneuver, he’d probably have drawn criticism for intervening in the free market.

Jobs are still being lost with the auxiliary plant being shut down entirely. They just aren't talking about it.

[beantownbubba]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/busin ... .html?_r=0

I don't think the article ever says what exactly the deal is. Call me cynical, but I could see him selling out just about anything the engineer a "victory".

My favorite piece...

And just as only a confirmed anti-Communist like Richard Nixon could go to China, so only a businessman like Mr. Trump could take on corporate America without being called a Bernie Sanders-style socialist. If Barack Obama had tried the same maneuver, he’d probably have drawn criticism for intervening in the free market.

This is just like opening day of the baseball season: Because it's Trump's first major public policy action, it's in the arena of his biggest calling card and it's a win it will get far more attention and be analyzed far more deeply than the facts warrant, leading to all sorts of unsupportable and incorrect conclusions.

[Beebs]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/busin ... .html?_r=0

I don't think the article ever says what exactly the deal is. Call me cynical, but I could see him selling out just about anything the engineer a "victory".

My favorite piece...

And just as only a confirmed anti-Communist like Richard Nixon could go to China, so only a businessman like Mr. Trump could take on corporate America without being called a Bernie Sanders-style socialist. If Barack Obama had tried the same maneuver, he’d probably have drawn criticism for intervening in the free market.

This is just like opening day of the baseball season: Because it's Trump's first major public policy action, it's in the arena of his biggest calling card and it's a win it will get far more attention and be analyzed far more deeply than the facts warrant, leading to all sorts of unsupportable and incorrect conclusions.

Bubba, just to clarify, you mean his supporters will use this to come to unsupported conclusions in his favor? Or we all will overanalyze?

[Smitty]

I think what bubba means is "it don't mean shit".

but I could be wrong.

[beantownbubba]

Bubba, just to clarify, you mean his supporters will use this to come to unsupported conclusions in his favor? Or we all will overanalyze?

"All" is a lot of people, but I did intend to include both supporters and critics (and neutrals if there is any such thing).

I think what bubba means is "it don't mean shit".

If you mean "it don't mean shit in the big picture," then yes. Obviously it means a hell of a lot to those 1,000 people whose jobs are saved and it will boost Trump's image short-term, and not just among supporters.

[ramonz]

Interesting. An Open Letter to Customers (Levi's): Our Weapons Policy

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-let ... 6zlIsuynw1

[beantownbubba]

Interesting. An Open Letter to Customers (Levi's): Our Weapons Policy

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-let ... 6zlIsuynw1

I am at best inexperienced when it comes to private citizens legally carrying firearms "in ordinary daily life" but I find this policy hard to understand. While I can't imagine folks carrying guns around the mall, if it's legal and they are, what are they supposed to do when they get to the Levi's store? Go back to their cars and put their guns in the trunk? Or are they more likely to say "I hear your request but I politely decline to follow your preferred policy"? Should Levi's provide lockers? I can't figure out what this policy means in places where carrying guns is not so common and not so legal, including several of his examples like Paris. If someone shows up at the Paris Levi's wearing a gun, shouldn't the store refuse entry, call the cops, do something other than quote a requested policy? I appreciate the sentiment but I don't get this.

[Barely_Oakely]

Interesting. An Open Letter to Customers (Levi's): Our Weapons Policy

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-let ... 6zlIsuynw1

Interesting. I appreciate the idea of a request rather than a mandate. I'm always torn about carrying. I don't usually see the need to do so, but I've only ever walked in my own shoes. I guess my issue with carrying a weapon isn't that people do it, but the lack of training some folks have. You hear about accidental discharges and such all the time and that should never happen if you are well versed in the use and safety of your firearm but if everyone did things the right way there would be no speeding tickets, undercooked chicken or dub step music so the point is sorta lost.

Good for Levi's for being respectful in their decision. Now if they could just quit making skinny jeans for dudes...

[tinnitus photography]

but if everyone did things the right way there would be no speeding tickets, undercooked chicken or dub step music so the point is sorta lost.

[lotusamerica]

BOOM! Everything that's wrong w/ politics today unintentionally summed up in a casually tossed off couple of sentences in today's WaPo:

" it seems doubtful that Trump will be able to get Democrats to help him pass his nontraditional Republican policies. Politics, after all, is zero sum. If you win an election, that means I've lost it. There's no incentive for Democrats to make Trump a successful president, just like there wasn't for Republicans with Obama."

Fuck everyone. Fuck everything. This is a goddamn nightmare.

Fuck them. What are all those nontraditional Republican policies again? And if he wanted them to be passed, why would he fill his cabinet positions with traditionalist rightwingers?

WaPo is peddling bullshit. Let's just go ahead and start the "Blame the Democrats" game already for the shitshow we all know is coming. Fair and balanced, just like Fox.

The Republican Congress didn't just not want to make Obama a successful president, they willingly risked the national economy in a pissing match several times and refused to do their duty this past year with the Supreme Court nomination.

The problem, BTB, is that a system based on compromise requires two willing parties, and one party has not been willing in a divided government, and certainly won't be in a unified government. Don't get me wrong, both parties use whatever means they can to push through their preferred agenda, but there is no equivalency between anything the Democrats have done and the rise of tea party and post-tea party fringe right Republicans who demand complete adherence to their agenda and are willing to invoke any harm necessary in order to enact it. With the election of Trump, they have won. Further attempts to compromise on the part of the Democrats will gain nothing. Overall, I think the era of federal governance that we have known all of our lifetimes is over. There is nothing left but the back and forth trade of power depending on who wins elections and the Democrats should recognize that, put their effort into winning the next election and resisting until that time. Get rid of notions of honest debate and decency as they will not be appreciated or returned, simply taken as weakness and used as weapons against the people offering them up.

So, yeah, fuck everything, but don't confuse the situation we're actually in with one that we believed in and wish for. That's dead.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Fuck them. What are all those nontraditional Republican policies again? And if he wanted them to be passed, why would he fill his cabinet positions with traditionalist rightwingers?

WaPo is peddling bullshit. Let's just go ahead and start the "Blame the Democrats" game already for the shitshow we all know is coming. Fair and balanced, just like Fox.

The Republican Congress didn't just not want to make Obama a successful president, they willingly risked the national economy in a pissing match several times and refused to do their duty this past year with the Supreme Court nomination.

The problem, BTB, is that a system based on compromise requires two willing parties, and one party has not been willing in a divided government, and certainly won't be in a unified government. Don't get me wrong, both parties use whatever means they can to push through their preferred agenda, but there is no equivalency between anything the Democrats have done and the rise of tea party and post-tea party fringe right Republicans who demand complete adherence to their agenda and are willing to invoke any harm necessary in order to enact it. With the election of Trump, they have won. Further attempts to compromise on the part of the Democrats will gain nothing. Overall, I think the era of federal governance that we have known all of our lifetimes is over. There is nothing left but the back and forth trade of power depending on who wins elections and the Democrats should recognize that, put their effort into winning the next election and resisting until that time. Get rid of notions of honest debate and decency as they will not be appreciated or returned, simply taken as weakness and used as weapons against the people offering them up.

So, yeah, fuck everything, but don't confuse the situation we're actually in with one that we believed in and wish for. That's dead.

This is as on point as anything I've ever seen you post. Bravo. Unfortunately in this scenario we are all losers.

[beantownbubba]

BOOM! Everything that's wrong w/ politics today unintentionally summed up in a casually tossed off couple of sentences in today's WaPo:

" it seems doubtful that Trump will be able to get Democrats to help him pass his nontraditional Republican policies. Politics, after all, is zero sum. If you win an election, that means I've lost it. There's no incentive for Democrats to make Trump a successful president, just like there wasn't for Republicans with Obama."

Fuck everyone. Fuck everything. This is a goddamn nightmare.

Fuck them. What are all those nontraditional Republican policies again? And if he wanted them to be passed, why would he fill his cabinet positions with traditionalist rightwingers?

WaPo is peddling bullshit. Let's just go ahead and start the "Blame the Democrats" game already for the shitshow we all know is coming. Fair and balanced, just like Fox.

The Republican Congress didn't just not want to make Obama a successful president, they willingly risked the national economy in a pissing match several times and refused to do their duty this past year with the Supreme Court nomination.

The problem, BTB, is that a system based on compromise requires two willing parties, and one party has not been willing in a divided government, and certainly won't be in a unified government. Don't get me wrong, both parties use whatever means they can to push through their preferred agenda, but there is no equivalency between anything the Democrats have done and the rise of tea party and post-tea party fringe right Republicans who demand complete adherence to their agenda and are willing to invoke any harm necessary in order to enact it. With the election of Trump, they have won. Further attempts to compromise on the part of the Democrats will gain nothing. Overall, I think the era of federal governance that we have known all of our lifetimes is over. There is nothing left but the back and forth trade of power depending on who wins elections and the Democrats should recognize that, put their effort into winning the next election and resisting until that time. Get rid of notions of honest debate and decency as they will not be appreciated or returned, simply taken as weakness and used as weapons against the people offering them up.

So, yeah, fuck everything, but don't confuse the situation we're actually in with one that we believed in and wish for. That's dead.

Funny, I took that quote somewhat differently than you did, but we end up in more or less the same place. I didn't see it as part of the "blame the Democrats" theme. To me the key thing, the thing that's new in politics and government (if not this year then at least in this century) is that politics is now considered to be a zero sum game. That's the exact OPPOSITE of what politics is supposed to be. Sure there can only be one president and one person filling each elected office so that one person wins and at least one other loses. But that was never the way to add up the sum. The sum was a reflection of what was or was not accomplished. It follows from the zero sum model that Republicans had no incentive to work w/ Obama. THAT IS 100% WRONG. It follows from the zero sum model that Democrats have no reason to work with Trump. THAT IS 100% WRONG. The fact that this is now the model and that your analysis of the Democrats' strategy is reasonable under this model DOOMS THIS COUNTRY TO FAILURE AND CRISIS. I keep saying this because I have no idea what else to say: This is just nuts. This is no way to run a country, no matter what your ideology. Unless of course you're an anarchist.

OTOH, I guess there's some value to not even pretending anymore that there's something called the national interest.

[Tequila Cowboy]

OTOH, I guess there's some value to not even pretending anymore that there's something called the national interest.

See now, that's the whole ball of wax though isn't it? We can't pretend there's a national interest because the ideologies are so vastly different that it precludes any such a thing. Even notions of right or left have very little meaning anymore. The right seems to be a coalition between three distinct ideologies; 1) A cultural identity that clings to a subset of Christian tenets that seeks to halt any type of progress that tests their belief system 2) A financial worldview that seeks to have the US be a place where making money is sacrosanct and anything that impedes that is the enemy 3) A growing number of people whose lives have either disappeared or taken a turn for the worse, these are mostly middle class and lower class individuals who may not know what the answers are but are looking for a level of autocracy to lead them to a brighter future. What these three groups have in common is a "my way or the highway" approach that has produced both the Tea Party and Donald Trump.

I don't even know where to start with the Left because the Democratic party barely fits that description at all. Still and all it's every bit as fractured as the right if not more so but most of the time can't agree on anything close to finding a national interests.

You said something on election day that has been a mantra with me since "we are well and truly fucked". I don't doubt it for a second.

[Flea]

OTOH, I guess there's some value to not even pretending anymore that there's something called the national interest.

See now, that's the whole ball of wax though isn't it? We can't pretend there's a national interest because the ideologies are so vastly different that it precludes any such a thing. Even notions of right or left have very little meaning anymore. The right seems to be a coalition between three distinct ideologies; 1) A cultural identity that clings to a subset of Christian tenets that seeks to halt any type of progress that tests their belief system 2) A financial worldview that seeks to have the US be a place where making money is sacrosanct and anything that impedes that is the enemy 3) A growing number of people whose lives have either disappeared or taken a turn for the worse, these are mostly middle class and lower class individuals who may not know what the answers are but are looking for a level of autocracy to lead them to a brighter future. What these three groups have in common is a "my way or the highway" approach that has produced both the Tea Party and Donald Trump.

I don't even know where to start with the Left because the Democratic party barely fits that description at all. Still and all it's every bit as fractured as the right if not more so but most of the time can't agree on anything close to finding a national interests.

You said something on election day that has been a mantra with me since "we are well and truly fucked". I don't doubt it for a second.

At least weed is legal in many many places, and easy enough to get everywhere else. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. It won't help anything other than your psyche, though, but that cold comfort may just be enough to navigate the next 4+ years.

[Tequila Cowboy]

At least weed is legal in many many places, and easy enough to get everywhere else. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. It won't help anything other than your psyche, though, but that cold comfort may just be enough to navigate the next 4+ years.

I spent several years only smoking weed very, very occasionally, usually at DBT shows. Earlier this year I started smoking at home again, not a ton but semi-regularly, because of some abdominal pain I had and it helped. As the election wore on I used it for stress relief. The day after the election my wife asked me to check on my supply because she didn't want to deal with me in the land of Trump without any weed. It's a different world.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Bubba, this is sad and tragic and sadly echoes what you have been saying for some time. Welcome to the "post-truth" era.

A Trump Surrogate Drops the Mic: 'There's No Such Thing as Facts'

"Well, I think it's also an idea of an opinion. And that's—on one hand, I hear half the media saying that these are lies. But on the other half, there are many people that go, 'No, it's true.' And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch, is that people that say facts are facts—they're not really facts. Everybody has a way—it's kind of like looking at ratings, or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth, or not truth. There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts.
"And so Mr. Trump's tweet, amongst a certain crowd—a large part of the population—are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some—amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies and that there are no facts to back it up."

[brett27295]

Bubba, this is sad and tragic and sadly echoes what you have been saying for some time. Welcome to the "post-truth" era.

A Trump Surrogate Drops the Mic: 'There's No Such Thing as Facts'

"Well, I think it's also an idea of an opinion. And that's—on one hand, I hear half the media saying that these are lies. But on the other half, there are many people that go, 'No, it's true.' And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch, is that people that say facts are facts—they're not really facts. Everybody has a way—it's kind of like looking at ratings, or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth, or not truth. There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts.
"And so Mr. Trump's tweet, amongst a certain crowd—a large part of the population—are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some—amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies and that there are no facts to back it up."

I saw this earlier and really I just give up. There's no hope going forward.

[beantownbubba]

this is sad and tragic

If there's anything else to say, I don't know what it is. The implications of this kind of "thinking" are presumably obvious and definitely terrifying (and yet we know who won the election so maybe not). This is literally Dark Ages stuff. The Dark Ages!!

[Tequila Cowboy]

this is sad and tragic

If there's anything else to say, I don't know what it is. The implications of this kind of "thinking" are presumably obvious and definitely terrifying (and yet we know who won the election so maybe not). This is literally Dark Ages stuff. The Dark Ages!!

I just saw Brent Best post this piece on FB and compared it to a song he wrote for the Drams excellent Jubilee Dive record. Bren'ts a prescient motherfucker.

The Truth Lies Low

Trumpet blasts blare with ferocity of flame
Is it mourning Taps or Revelry? The email never came
Surely a light will glow
Commonplace come-ons you’d think would never play
Somehow trump the thoughtful things we used to do and say
Sadly these seeds do grow
Pick-up game pundits play perilous pursuits
Fax the new dream, wax the new sheen
Color-code the obvious, reduce the rest to green
All pretending not to know,
That the truth lies low
Figureheads will lie still a populace will try
To take them at their words in the hopes of getting by
Surely the dumb shall speak
Some will go willingly, while others kick and scream
Some will sleep a drunken sleep in hopes of happy dreams
Even the strong grow weak
Photoshop phenoms with nothing real to hide
They soak the new light, the pictures of right
Protool the proletarian, remove the need for flight
Yet regardless how things go,
Still the truth lies low
Carry on careful now, be watchful what you say
Willful, this world, flags to unfurl
In a carrion culture for the vultures to get paid
Only one thing must stay so…
A world away from confident, a world away from sure
All things in time, buy the new line
A world away from providence, a world away from pure
If there’s one thing that I know, it’s that the truth lies low
The truth lies low

[allisonsdc]

Bubba, just to clarify, you mean his supporters will use this to come to unsupported conclusions in his favor? Or we all will overanalyze?

"All" is a lot of people, but I did intend to include both supporters and critics (and neutrals if there is any such thing).

I think what bubba means is "it don't mean shit".

If you mean "it don't mean shit in the big picture," then yes. Obviously it means a hell of a lot to those 1,000 people whose jobs are saved and it will boost Trump's image short-term, and not just among supporters.

Bubba's right. It don't mean shit. The $7 million in tax cuts for Carrier will come from the state budget, and will cause cuts in education and health care funding. Trump ran a campaign promising to be tough on corporate America, and then turned around and disguised a huge corporate welfare check as a "job saving feat." People are applauding him for it. It's disgusting.

Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump