The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Flood18
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flood18 »

Lone Wolf1 wrote:http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/63737924453/video-dave-ramsey-lays-out-the-facts-of-obamacare-for



Doesn't he also fail to address the argument of how uninsured ER visits are paid for now? Along with no mention of the uninsured heathly people that will be joining the insured collective, which should counteract to a point the honey boo boos joining up. While i respect Dave Ramsey and his financial work, he is failing to present all the math IMO.

There is also no mention of how hospital care costs are negotiated between insurance companies and hospitals....the same procedure can vary wildly between hospitals in the same town due to these blind negotiations. More or less none of this shit matters at all until you real in HMOs, the free market doesnt matter when you are operating above it.

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grapico
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by grapico »

HMO's...ha. Another great idea from our government. Thanks to Kennedy for that one!

This is all about a single payer system. Always has been, but I suspect a great deal of folks still don't get that.


My buddy who lives in my hometown just got their rate increase letter. He's married with three kids. Rate is going up $600/month for the SAME plan. That really puts a strain on their budget and forces his wife back to work. They jus had a newborn and they were hoping she could raise the kids and be a stay at home mom. She just quit her job before the last kid.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO OUR ECONOMY IF A GREAT DEAL OF FAMILIES WILL HAVE TO PONY UP 5K-10K OF INCOME TO THEIR INSURER? THINK ABOUT THAT. IT WILL REMOVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY PER FAMILY THAT USED TO BE SPENT ON OTHER THINGS. IT'S GOING TO PUT A HURTIN' ON THE ECONOMY.

GOTDAM THIS IS A STUPID IDEA.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Has your neighbor looked at what the costs would be on the exchanges as an alternative to getting ass-raped by his employer?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

20 Signs you've drunk the Republican Kool Aid

DIFFICULTY: Written by a very conservative Washington Post columnist
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

grapico wrote:
WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO OUR ECONOMY IF A GREAT DEAL OF FAMILIES WILL HAVE TO PONY UP 5K-10K OF INCOME TO THEIR INSURER? THINK ABOUT THAT. IT WILL REMOVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY PER FAMILY THAT USED TO BE SPENT ON OTHER THINGS. IT'S GOING TO PUT A HURTIN' ON THE ECONOMY.



Possibly true, but I suspect it's a pretty complex calculation that depends in part on whether healthcare outcomes are impacted for the better and widely, and how that money that's taken from families is redistributed (not in the govt welfare sense but as in who gets it and what do they do w/ it?). W/out a doubt at the kind of numbers you're talking about, the micro impact on a given family will be severe in some cases and noticeable in many more; you could be right on the macro level as well, I'm just not sure it's a straightforward calculation w/ clearly predictable results.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Yes, I know this makes me a jerk, but I'm gonna put it out there anyway:

It is apparently a given by everyone on all sides (and how rare is that???) that federal employees should be paid back wages for time not worked during the shut down. I understand the argument and mostly agree w/ it: It wasn't their fault, they suffered essentially unnecessary hardships while this bullshit got worked out, the issues being "debated" had nothing to do w/ them and they shouldn't be the ones to pay for the sins of many others.

But here's what I don't get: What's really happening here? Congress, including the most rabid anti-government, anti-spending, anti-bureaucracy, anti-welfare members, is simply going to give hundreds of thousands of people money for not working. That work and those work hours will never be made up. They're just gone forever. Congress is simply taking tens of millions of dollars of our money and giving it away to support their incompetence because they aren't willing to take the consequences of their actions (yeah, we shut down the government, but it's not like we're bad guys or anything). How does this happen? Why doesn't anybody care? And where's the tea party member who's gonna stand up and say "we shouldn't pay those folks because they do nothing anyway and having them not work was an improvement?" The very idea of it is laughable, totally out of the realm of possibility. These guys have no more principles, no more integrity and no more interest in saving taxpayers money than any liberal bogeyman you care to name. Oh, and btw, all these assholes stil got paid for absolutely totally fucking up for a month. THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES TO ANYTHING THESE MORONS DO. NONE. Not one of them could survive in the private economy they all claim to venerate. We the People just got fucked again. Surprise, surprise.

At the end of the day, no, it's not fair to make these workers suck it up and not get paid. I very much doubt that i would actually vote not to pay them if i were given a vote. So it's not the result that's the problem, it's how we got here and how this sort of thing is allowed to happen that's the problem. The real answer is that Congress ought to pay their wages. :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

grapico wrote:This is all about a single payer system. Always has been, but I suspect a great deal of folks still don't get that.


I think that's so, but maybe not in the way you mean. We've got two parties which mostly serve the interests of the rich. One does it openly while the other does it quietly. The few of us who are Democrat who are actually leftists have been looking for a single-payer system for a long time. We see it as the obviously best system. Maybe we're wrong and maybe we're not, but that's not the point. The point is that the leadership of the Democratic Party has to be dragged screaming and kicking to do something which disproportionately helps people on the bottom.

So. Obamacare, much as I prefer it to the previous system, was still designed to frustrate, delay, and hopefully prevent single-payer.

I think that's a miscalculation on the part of conservative and moderate Democrats and a very long-term victory for the rest of us. Once the system is in place, people will like the idea and quarrel with the execution, and I think (maybe I'm wrong) the logic of the situation will drive us to single-payer.

P.S. I thought this article today was pretty good: No, there isn’t a “New American Center”. The last paragraph is especially sharp.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

beantownbubba wrote:Yes, I know this makes me a jerk, but I'm gonna put it out there anyway:

It is apparently a given by everyone on all sides (and how rare is that???) that federal employees should be paid back wages for time not worked during the shut down. I understand the argument and mostly agree w/ it: It wasn't their fault, they suffered essentially unnecessary hardships while this bullshit got worked out, the issues being "debated" had nothing to do w/ them and they shouldn't be the ones to pay for the sins of many others.


Honest question: how many government workers got to sit home doing nothing for 16 days, and how many others (like, say, TSA agents) had to work for free on furlough?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Zip City wrote:
Honest question: how many government workers got to sit home doing nothing for 16 days, and how many others (like, say, TSA agents) had to work for free on furlough?


Honest answer: I don't know. I hope it's obvious that those who worked w/out pay damn well better get paid. I'd say w/ interest but it wouldn't add up to anything anyway.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by grapico »

Zip City wrote:Has your neighbor looked at what the costs would be on the exchanges as an alternative to getting ass-raped by his employer?



He's self employed, a small business owner. They've tried to look at the ACA site for alternate plans but the system has been down.

TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK. Hey, the plan you have been on....and the family is healthy and fit....we are going to jack it up several hundred percent and call it affordable. Fuck. Please don't defend this colossal waste that is the ACA.

Limit government in your lives people....it isn't that complicated

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

grapico wrote:
Zip City wrote:Has your neighbor looked at what the costs would be on the exchanges as an alternative to getting ass-raped by his employer?



He's self employed, a small business owner. They've tried to look at the ACA site for alternate plans but the system has been down.

TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK. Hey, the plan you have been on....and the family is healthy and fit....we are going to jack it up several hundred percent and call it affordable. Fuck. Please don't defend this colossal waste that is the ACA.

Limit government in your lives people....it isn't that complicated


But your anecdotal example is not the norm. Our rates went up incrementally, but not several fold
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Say what you want, but that John Boehner knows how to party:

The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by grapico »

Zip City wrote:
grapico wrote:
Zip City wrote:Has your neighbor looked at what the costs would be on the exchanges as an alternative to getting ass-raped by his employer?



He's self employed, a small business owner. They've tried to look at the ACA site for alternate plans but the system has been down.

TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK. Hey, the plan you have been on....and the family is healthy and fit....we are going to jack it up several hundred percent and call it affordable. Fuck. Please don't defend this colossal waste that is the ACA.

Limit government in your lives people....it isn't that complicated


But your anecdotal example is not the norm. Our rates went up incrementally, but not several fold



I've seen/read or know folks from California, Nebraska, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina mention their rates will double or much more. Is there a particular state you would like to sample from? Shouldn't be too difficult.

Let me use a lefty mantra tho'...if it affects just ONE person or ONE family shouldn't we shut it down?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

grapico wrote:[

Let me use a lefty mantra tho'...if it affects just ONE person or ONE family shouldn't we shut it down?


I thought that was a righty mantra: If one person is exploiting welfare/medicare/social security/disability/unemployment benefits, shut the whole program down!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

So the shutdown is over. What did it all mean? Damned if I know (other than the rather obvious conclusion that the major political parties and standard operating procedure inside the beltway are dangerous to our health).

But here's the Wall St Journal's attempt to figure out what the Republicans gained and lost and whether the fight was worth fighting even if they lost (that they lost seems to be a given everywhere I look).

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1910774786

As far as i can tell after reading that, the WSJ understands as little about what happened as i do. Somehow that's profoundly depressing.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

The GOP is eating its own:

"It’d be a good idea if they stopped referring to other Republicans as Hitler appeasers because they opposed the strategy they put forward which failed," Norquist told National Review's Betsy Woodruff. "I think if you make a mistake as big as what they did, you owe your fellow senators and congressmen a big apology — and your constituents, as well, because nothing they did advanced the cause of repealing or dismantling Obamacare."

[snip]

"They hurt the conservative movement, they hurt people’s health care, they hurt the country’s economic situation and they hurt the Republican party," Norquist continued. "And a lot of congressmen and senators are not going to win because we spent three months chasing our own tail — or at least, parts of the conservative movement spent three months chasing their own tail."


Yes, Grover Norquist, father of the "no new taxes ever ever ever" pledge.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Slipkid42 »

beantownbubba wrote:So the shutdown is over. What did it all mean? Damned if I know (other than the rather obvious conclusion that the major political parties and standard operating procedure inside the beltway are dangerous to our health).


It means I'll have more traffic to deal with on my commute. Beyond that, there won't be much difference.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by rlipps »

Zip City wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:Yes, I know this makes me a jerk, but I'm gonna put it out there anyway:

It is apparently a given by everyone on all sides (and how rare is that???) that federal employees should be paid back wages for time not worked during the shut down. I understand the argument and mostly agree w/ it: It wasn't their fault, they suffered essentially unnecessary hardships while this bullshit got worked out, the issues being "debated" had nothing to do w/ them and they shouldn't be the ones to pay for the sins of many others.


Honest question: how many government workers got to sit home doing nothing for 16 days, and how many others (like, say, TSA agents) had to work for free on furlough?


I have several friends that work at the federal prison here, and they are all having to work for free during the shutdown because they are classified as "essential employees".

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote: Will House Republicans force a shutdown of the government Monday night? Will they force the US to default on its debt in a couple of weeks?

My bet is yes on the former, no on the latter.


It's not like this was a particularly hard call or that I'm the only one who made it, but still...
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Slipkid42 wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:So the shutdown is over. What did it all mean? Damned if I know (other than the rather obvious conclusion that the major political parties and standard operating procedure inside the beltway are dangerous to our health).


It means I'll have more traffic to deal with on my commute. Beyond that, there won't be much difference.


You have traffic to deal w/ at 4 am?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by grapico »

Zip City wrote:
grapico wrote:[

Let me use a lefty mantra tho'...if it affects just ONE person or ONE family shouldn't we shut it down?


I thought that was a righty mantra: If one person is exploiting welfare/medicare/social security/disability/unemployment benefits, shut the whole program down!



GUN CONTROL

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

grapico wrote:
Zip City wrote:
grapico wrote:[

Let me use a lefty mantra tho'...if it affects just ONE person or ONE family shouldn't we shut it down?


I thought that was a righty mantra: If one person is exploiting welfare/medicare/social security/disability/unemployment benefits, shut the whole program down!



GUN CONTROL


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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Smitty »

grapico wrote:This is all about a single payer system. Always has been, but I suspect a great deal of folks still don't get that.


I don't think so - I think this is a way to avoid (or perhaps prolong the Implementation of) a single-payer system. I think the private insurance market is too deeply embedded in our economy to simply do away with, and this guarantees they will atleast exist for the considerable future. There's a reason single payer was ousted from the conversation at the get-go. I imagine it'll eventually come to pass, but I would be that's atleast a generation away.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Slipkid42 »

beantownbubba wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:So the shutdown is over. What did it all mean? Damned if I know (other than the rather obvious conclusion that the major political parties and standard operating procedure inside the beltway are dangerous to our health).


It means I'll have more traffic to deal with on my commute. Beyond that, there won't be much difference.


You have traffic to deal w/ at 4 am?


Actually, I drive in @ 3:15 a.m.; and no, there isn't any traffic then. When I get off @ noon, though, the streets of D.C. are crawling w/shitty drivers. The last 2 weeks the streets had been relatively empty, except for the occasional tourists.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Beebs »

grapico wrote:
Zip City wrote:
grapico wrote:[

Let me use a lefty mantra tho'...if it affects just ONE person or ONE family shouldn't we shut it down?


I thought that was a righty mantra: If one person is exploiting welfare/medicare/social security/disability/unemployment benefits, shut the whole program down!



GUN CONTROL


You're a gun control
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by grapico »

Beebs wrote:
You're a gun control


Stimulating as usual

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

grapico wrote:
Zip City wrote:Has your neighbor looked at what the costs would be on the exchanges as an alternative to getting ass-raped by his employer?



He's self employed, a small business owner. They've tried to look at the ACA site for alternate plans but the system has been down.

TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK. Hey, the plan you have been on....and the family is healthy and fit....we are going to jack it up several hundred percent and call it affordable. Fuck. Please don't defend this colossal waste that is the ACA.

Limit government in your lives people....it isn't that complicated



Your mileage may vary, but...

After checking the exchanges, it looks like the wifey and I will be able to use a plan that costs $40/month less than the individual policy we now have (which seems to only cover dismemberment by Sharknado occurring on the third Tuesday of months without an "R" in the name) with a smaller copay and a deductible that is $4000 less. And this is without any type of credits/assistance, because we don't meet the income qualifications. So overall, seems like a pretty good deal to me.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

From ABC News:

"The financial ratings agency Standard & Poor's said Wednesday the shutdown "to date has taken $24 billion out of the economy," equaling $1.5 billion dollars a day and "shaved at least 0.6 percent off annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth."

It's not clear if this is included in the figures above:

"$3.1 billion in lost government services. Although furloughed workers will get their back pay, taxpayers won't see the products. (Source: I.H.S.)"

I'm thinking that this is not what I elected my representatives in Congress to do.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by 4sooner »

http://news.yahoo.com/congressional-dea ... 12679.html

As always,Mitch is standing on principal.
That's 2.9 billion

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

4sooner wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/congressional-deal-includes-nearly--3-billion-for-kentucky-dam-project-001012679.html

As always,Mitch is standing on principal.
That's 2.9 billion


Nice find, 4sooner.

Note the math: It would cost $169 million to cancel, and that would be a waste, so let's spend another $2 billion on a total boondoggle as if that's somehow saving money :shock: Been there, done that (big dig department): this thing will wind up costing $5 billion before it's over.

I'm waaaaay waaay to old to be getting angry at this shit, but I can't help it. I'm not just angry, i'm freakin' livid. Billions of dollars down the toilet for nothing, over nothing. Brought to you by the very same people who complain about federal spending and budget deficits. It's enough to make one buy a shelter in Idaho. You think they get directv there? What about pizza delivery? (Not to be confused w/ pizza deliverance...I think one needs a blood red carpet for that).
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