The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

[Cole Younger]

The notion of "groups" is a big part of the problem to me. When people start getting identified as part of a group instead of as individuals then broad brushes start getting used and they are used by those who think they are being compassionate a lot times.

If people start identifying themselves strongly as part of a group they have walled themselves off from those not like them to a certain extent. Groups seem to always get around to either thinking they need a leader or allowing some type A strong man with big ambitions for themselves to become a leader for them. To my way of thinking there is more bad than good that comes with that.

How much of it is human nature and how much of it is something that has slyly been fed to us to keep us all divided, I'm not sure.

[Cole Younger]

Would calling my softball team the crackers somehow be offensive?

[Zip City]

Cracker does not have (and never has had) the weight of redskin, n*****, spic, mick, jap, coon, etc.

And your softball team is a far cry from a billion dollar football franchise in the nation's capital

[cortez the killer]

Do these logo's really bother y'all?

They don't bother me, but that's beside the point.

[cortez the killer]

You addressed the name part, Zip. What about the logo?

I honestly don't know the history of the logo, or if the Blackhawks tribe has given the team it's blessing to use it (a la the Seminoles).

Don't forget the Fighting Sioux.

[Iowan]

Would calling my softball team the crackers somehow be offensive?

If white people got offended by it.

That's part of the problem. Most people of European descent just don't get bent out of shape over these kind of things. Most likely because most of us have never been discriminated against via the actions of others. I'm of mostly German descent. You can call me a "Kraut" until you're blue in the face, and I just won't care. I have a hard time understanding why people get so bent out of shape over words, but its obvious that they do, so rather than spit in the wind and tell them they're stupid for feeling that way, I just try to respect their wishes.

[grapico]

Do these logo's really bother y'all?

They don't bother me, but that's beside the point.

Sure, there's no need to change it unless they get public pressure. There's no change if there's no outcry. The actual Seminoles have even said that they are cool with FSU and the name/logo. These logo's pay tribute to the strength/toughness/badassness of __________ . Otherwise, what's the point of using them? People are always looking for other angles in this PC world we live in and it frustrates me to no end.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Do these logo's really bother y'all?

They don't bother me, but that's beside the point.

Sure, there's no need to change it unless they get public pressure. There's no change if there's no outcry. The actual Seminoles have even said that they are cool with FSU and the name/logo. These logo's pay tribute to the strength/toughness/badassness of __________ . Otherwise, what's the point of using them? People are always looking for other angles in this PC world we live in and it frustrates me to no end.

If these things don't bother Native Americans then they shouldn't bother anyone else, I agree with that. Redskins is different but even in that case most Native Americans are against it. The term is a slur based solely on the color of Native People's skin. I don't know how it can possibly be rationally defended.

[beantownbubba]

The notion of "groups" is a big part of the problem to me. When people start getting identified as part of a group instead of as individuals then broad brushes start getting used and they are used by those who think they are being compassionate a lot times.

If people start indenting themselves strongly as part of a group they have walled themselves off from those not like them to a certain extent. Groups seem to always get around to either thinking they need a leader or allowing some type A strong man with big for themselves to become a leader for them. To my way of thinking there is more bad than good that comes with that.

How much of it is human nature and how much of it is something that has slyly been fed to us to keep us all divided, I'm not sure.

This is a very challenging post, CY and i mean that in the best possible way. I've given up on anything like a short response and even then I'm having difficulty finding a way into the subject. I'll keep trying though.

Would calling my softball team the crackers somehow be offensive?

This one's easy though: No. For one thing it's something the group is calling itself. Second, and I may be off base on this, the term "cracker" seems to have moved from somewhat but not terminally offensive to being positively embraced by many members of the group. Third, as far as i know there's no political or social movement claiming that crackers have been unfairly treated by the government or portrayed by the media or otherwise suffered because of their crackerhood or the use of the term. Then there's the question of whether crackers are even a minority in the area you're talking about.

[wrekkr]

Second, and I may be off base on this, the term "cracker" seems to have moved from somewhat but not terminally offensive to being positively embraced by many members of the group.

uhh, wouldn't that be like saying its ok to call a gansta rapper a niggah, because they call eachother "niggahs" ??


Is this racist?

[grapico]

If these things don't bother Native Americans then they shouldn't bother anyone else, I agree with that. Redskins is different but even in that case most Native Americans are against it. The term is a slur based solely on the color of Native People's skin. I don't know how it can possibly be rationally defended.

The Braves, Blackhawks, Seminoles, etc. all fall under what we agree on then? I personally don't have a problem with "Redskin". It's a term that was around long before my time and no one uses it now. In my opinion, I don't think anyone here REALLY has a problem with it either truthfully. THat being said, I guess the ownership of the team can change it or not. Or the league can force them to change it. Or we can all quit watching when the Redskins play. But personally I think it's just something to talk about. Gun violence and crime sure plummeted when the Washington Bullets changed it to the Wizards. I'm sure changing Redskins to something terrible like Red Storm (hey to St. John's) will make the Indians forgive us for destroying their home/world. Sure, let's do it and wipe the slate clean.

[Zip City]

You vanquished a lot of straw men in that post

[grapico]

You vanquished a lot of straw men in that post

Still stand behind the post. It's all a bunch of talk. The changing of the name of a sports team in DC won't do a damn thing for a kid on a RES in Wyoming. We all know this, but it probably still needs to be changed. I guess.

[Cole Younger]

I can't believe that nobody got (I think bubba suspected it) that the cracker softball team post was a joke.

I am a cracker though. My daddy's people settled in north Florida. Got a big dose of cracker heritage in my family. Google Florida crackers some time. Very interesting to me. Also, give the book A Land Remembered a try.

[Cole Younger]

Cracker does not have (and never has had) the weight of redskin, n*****, spic, mick, jap, coon, etc.

And your softball team is a far cry from a billion dollar football franchise in the nation's capital

I don't appreciate you belittling my softball team with your urban elitist Yankee condescension.

[Lone Wolf1]

I can't believe that nobody got (I think bubba suspected it) that the cracker softball team post was a joke.

I am a cracker though. My daddy's people settled in north Florida. Got a big dose of cracker heritage in my family. Google Florida crackers some time. Very interesting to me. Also, give the book A Land Remembered a try.

i certainly got it. but i'm not an oversensitive, white apologetic liberal either

[Zip City]

No one took your softball question seriously.

[Cole Younger]

No one took your softball question seriously.

How can you possibly speak with any authority on what everyone or no one thought about a particular thing?

[grapico]

Cole,
Cracka = not offensive
Cracker = offensive

Agree? Haha

[beantownbubba]

uhh, wouldn't that be like saying its ok to call a gansta rapper a niggah, because they call eachother "niggahs" ??

No, it's not like that at all. It would be like a softball team of gangsta rappers naming their softball team the niggahs.

[Cole Younger]

Cole,
Cracka = not offensive
Cracker = offensive

Agree? Haha

Nice!

And when I said that I love fried chicken and watermelons somebody asked me if I can dance. I just might be the worst dancer of all time.

[Cole Younger]

uhh, wouldn't that be like saying its ok to call a gansta rapper a niggah, because they call eachother "niggahs" ??

No, it's not like that at all. It would be like a softball team of gangsta rappers naming their softball team the niggahs.

[beantownbubba]

I can't believe that nobody got (I think bubba suspected it) that the cracker softball team post was a joke.

I am a cracker though. My daddy's people settled in north Florida. Got a big dose of cracker heritage in my family. Google Florida crackers some time. Very interesting to me. Also, give the book A Land Remembered a try.

I thought it was a serious question wrapped around a joke. I guess that makes it a btb. Oh well. Haven't pulled one in a while i guess.

I have lost the thread of this thread. But I still hope to get back to cy's "group" post.

[Cole Younger]

I can't believe that nobody got (I think bubba suspected it) that the cracker softball team post was a joke.

I am a cracker though. My daddy's people settled in north Florida. Got a big dose of cracker heritage in my family. Google Florida crackers some time. Very interesting to me. Also, give the book A Land Remembered a try.

I thought it was a serious question wrapped around a joke. I guess that makes it a btb. Oh well. Haven't pulled one in a while i guess.

I have lost the thread of this thread. But I still hope to get back to cy's "group" post.

It kind of was that. Just trying to have a little fun. I thought I saw dark clouds forming and wanted to lighten the mood a little.

I in no way meant to offend dark clouds or to suggest that they are inferior to white ones.

[Zip City]

I can't believe that nobody got (I think bubba suspected it) that the cracker softball team post was a joke.

I am a cracker though. My daddy's people settled in north Florida. Got a big dose of cracker heritage in my family. Google Florida crackers some time. Very interesting to me. Also, give the book A Land Remembered a try.

I thought it was a serious question wrapped around a joke. I guess that makes it a btb. Oh well. Haven't pulled one in a while i guess.

I have lost the thread of this thread. But I still hope to get back to cy's "group" post.

It kind of was that. Just trying to have a little fun. I thought I saw dark clouds forming and wanted to lighten the mood a little.

I in no way meant to offend dark clouds or to suggest that they are inferior to white ones.

Careful, Wolfie might mistake you for a pants-wetting liberal

[Lone Wolf1]

Careful, Wolfie might mistake you for a pants-wetting liberal

you fit the bill perfectly zippy. cole is a real man. a Marine

[Zip City]

Careful, Wolfie might mistake you for a pants-wetting liberal

you fit the bill perfectly zippy. cole is a real man. a Marine

I haven't wet my pants for weeks!

[wrekkr]

[lotusamerica]

The notion of "groups" is a big part of the problem to me. When people start getting identified as part of a group instead of as individuals then broad brushes start getting used and they are used by those who think they are being compassionate a lot times.

If people start identifying themselves strongly as part of a group they have walled themselves off from those not like them to a certain extent. Groups seem to always get around to either thinking they need a leader or allowing some type A strong man with big ambitions for themselves to become a leader for them. To my way of thinking there is more bad than good that comes with that.

How much of it is human nature and how much of it is something that has slyly been fed to us to keep us all divided, I'm not sure.

There's some good stuff in here, and like BTB, may have to come back to it after more thought.

To some degree, though, I think it's kind of an easy perspective to hold for those of us in the majority who aren't diminished or threatened by society based on our subgroup. I think when you're in a minority, you may be more likely to want a subgroup to identify with and be a part of because they provide some sense of comfort/protection vs. standing all alone when you're clearly different and let's say underappreciated, and identifying with that subgroup may help you hold your head a little higher if the type you happen to be born as is looked down upon by the majority culture.

I had a car break down once in South Chicago in the middle of the night, and I had a subway suddenly terminate another time at 3 am near Harlem with rail problems with almost no money on me for a cab. I guarantee you that on both of those occasions, I was distinctly aware that I was not a part of the majority group, and although no one ever directly threatened me, I was clearly aware that I had nobody from my group to be on my side, even potentially, if they did, and I strongly wanted to have someone from my group around to be connected to (I did have to walk past some guy getting the crap kicked out of him by two guys he had apparently not paid off a debt to somewhere in a NYC subway that night, and was completely blown away when two cops walked by right after me and ignored it - I followed them, though painfully aware it didn't seem like it would do me much good if trouble arose).

Thank god I don't have the everyday challenges of a black man in love with a white woman around Kudzu's parts.

[lotusamerica]

Is this racist?

No, but it's kind of funny, though a bit cheap. But it's just humor goofing on different stereotypes, with a slight edge, but no real offense intended. Portraying white people clapping politely is not a real criticism and doesn't pose any threat, and people can almost always goof on their own group without it being racist.

The thing about racism is that it's not always easy to define without context. An issue is the offense a racist comment or portrayal gives, not just because people are oversensitive, but because the comment/portrayal resembles/reflects a threat/discrimination/oppression that actually exists and the comment/portrayal encodes that threat/etc. into words or actions, sometimes very obviously, and other times subtly, so that the offense is potentially taken while the sender of the message retains deniability of intent.

Humor can be racist, but a lot of apparently racist humor is fake racist, intended to make people laugh by shocking them with exaggerated stereotypes, either with a wink that let's everyone know the comedian doesn't really believe this but is just pushing boundaries, or with an intent to provoke actual thought about racial stereotypes or common racist thoughts/acts.