MLB Class of 2011

[3milelake]

Best player I got to see on a regular basis



About time!

[drtpants]

Blyleven is in?!!! Really?! Congrats to him if true.

Alomar has to get in because of the stats he put up at a position that doesn't have a ton of great offensive players. Plus all the Gold Gloves. That said, he stands out as a classless jerk in a sport full of classless jerks. Fuck him. The voters should make him wait longer just because he's a prick.

[ScottyC]

Alomar deserved it last year. Maybe the best 2nd baseman of all time. The only reason he wasnt voted in last year was his attitude and the ability to keep him from being a first ballot.

[3milelake]

Alomar deserved it last year. Maybe the best 2nd baseman of all time. The only reason he wasnt voted in last year was his attitude and the ability to keep him from being a first ballot.

Lots of attitude, but sure could deliver in the clutch. Was fortunate enough to see him live many times during the Jays' glory years.

[beantownbubba]

Blyleven's status as an all time great continues to elude me. I don't think it's anything like the biggest mistake the voters have made, but i was never troubled by his exclusion and find the case for his inclusion to be less than compelling.

Was sorry to see that Palmiero qualified to stay on the ballot. Feh.

Is Bagwell's mediocre showing a steroid thing or are there other issues about his candidacy I'm not aware of?

I think Alomar's failure to get in last year was statement enough about his various indiscretions. Not sure if i would have voted for him last year, but definitely would have this year.

But then again, I would have voted for tim raines, too, who seems to be stuck in that great middle and apparently needs a champion if he's ever to get in.

[ScottyC]

The Bagwell thing has to be Steroids, I dont think you can deny him otherwise. I will watch the numbers Biggio gets and see if thats true, bc based upon on field performance they are pretty close.

Regarding Tim Raines, I honestly didnt know how good his numbers were until (I think it was) Tim Kurkijan was stating his case earlier this week and I would have to agree with his entry

[LuthierJustin]

really? Robbie (the lugie) Alomar?
classy guy

[scotto]

If spitting on an ump is enough to disqualify a player from the Hall of Fame, then Ty Cobb should have been kicked out years ago.

[3milelake]

If spitting on an ump is enough to disqualify a player from the Hall of Fame, then Ty Cobb should have been kicked out years ago.

He did a stupid thing that day. John Hirschbeck & Alomar buried that hatchet long ago & are good friends now. I knew someone would play that card (not you scotto, the one before you). He's in a 205 member club....let it go....

[Flying Rabbit]

Great to see a former O's player go in. Loved watching him play, and yeah "the incident" has been played out way too much. Let bygones be bygones.

Was really hoping to see Bags get the call, but yeah, the steroid era has made a first ballot vote for him nil obviously. Stinks, because while he was big, he wasn't abnormally big. Guy was just a great hitter/fielder. As someone said on another board I frequent, voters are pretty hypocritical. They balk and say that today's players can't live up to statistics of older generations, then raise an eyebrow whenever a player was able to attain them in the modern era. Bags is a perfect example of this.

[Zip City]

Bagwell got robbed. His name has never been attached to any lists of steroid users.

These voter's ballots should be made public

[Clams]

Bagwell got robbed. His name has never been attached to any lists of steroid users.

These voter's ballots should be made public

Seems to me he's in a similar boat as Blyleven, who was a very good pitcher in an era of good pitching. Bagwell was a very good hitter in an era of good hitting.

[beantownbubba]

Bagwell got robbed. His name has never been attached to any lists of steroid users.

These voter's ballots should be made public

FWIW, Boston Globe writers w/ a vote always make them public.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Bagwell got robbed. His name has never been attached to any lists of steroid users.

These voter's ballots should be made public

I heard the opposite today that there are many rumors about Bagwell. His numbers really are too good.

[Flying Rabbit]

He wasn't on the Mitchell report, nor has be been included on any comprehensive list. There were rumors about Ripken as well, but that didn't keep him out.

So, because the guy was good his numbers are "too good"? I dunno about that logic.

This was in a comments section of a blog which was bashing Bagwell and accusing him of not stepping up and pointing the finger at users (who did?):

I’m going to defend Jeff Bagwell. In particular, I’ll try to address Wade’s points.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml
First off, in regards to the 6 homers he hit as a minor leaguer, I’d point out the fact that he also hit 48 doubles in 710 at-bats (not 900) and walked more than he struck out (99 vs. 82). That’s not bad for a 21-year-old, and you know they say those doubles usually turn into home runs down the line. Furthermore, I just looked up the park factors for New Britain, Bagwell’s AA team, and I found that particular yard tends to depress home run totals. Someone can correct me if I’d interpreted that incorrectly, but it seems as if he did pretty well given the environment.
I’d then ask you to compare the numbers Bagwell compiled while Houston still played at the Astrodome, from his rookie year in 1991 through 1999, to the numbers he put up once they moved into Minute Maid Park in 2000. As you can see, there’s a period of clear improvement leading up to his MVP year in 1994. “Immediately” is too strong a word, Wade, I think, since he went from 15 to 18 to 20 and then to 39 in the strike year. (Sidenote/fun fact: Barry Bonds went from 16 HR his rookie season to 33 in his 5th year!) He had his peak right around when you’d expect, at age 27.
I don’t know how much you know about stats like OPS+, but it’s important to note he averaged 159 in the Astrodome years and saw that average slip to 134 from 2000 to his last healthy season, 2004. 134 is really good, but 159 is great.
Furthermore, his strikeout rate increased upon moving to Minute Maid, going from an average of 101 in his Astrodome years to 126. His on-base percentage also declined from .416 to .395. Thirdly, he stopped stealing bases after stealing at least 30 twice.
I’d note that he was 31 years old when the Astros moved into Minute Maid, so while he continued to compile some impressive counting stats, there’s a distinct decline right when you’d expect it and those numbers probably had more to do with the Crawford Boxes (315 feet to the left field pole!) than any potential PEDs.
Like anything else, it’s all in how you look at it.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I trust no one from the steroids era. Except maybe Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas. Everyone else is suspect. Of course PED's offend me in baseball more than most folks around here. Oddly I sort of accept them as a fact of life in football.

[Zip City]

I trust no one from the steroids era. Except maybe Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas. Everyone else is suspect. Of course PED's offend me in baseball more than most folks around here. Oddly I sort of accept them as a fact of life in football.

no one should be held out of the Hall on "suspicion". If there is a positive drug test or an admission of guilt, deal with that, but to implicate a decade and a half of players because some did PED's, that's just not right.

Besides, there are already plenty of cheaters/miscreants in the Hall, so the sudden puritanical take by the voters reeks of hypocrisy

[cortez the killer]

"I don’t know what to expect. From what I can gather, from what I see [on TV)], my take on it is, yeah, it’s probably not going to happen. What can you do about it? There is not much I can do. ... It’s not a story I made up. It is exactly what happened to me. I took B12 I got from a teammate, I took it to my house and my wife gave me an injection and I threw the stuff away and that was the end of it. ... I think people hold that [finger point in Congress] against me more than anything and maybe that hurts me, but I was adamant about it and about telling the truth. I could have done what Mark McGwire did...."

[Zip City]

ok

[Flying Rabbit]

I trust no one from the steroids era. Except maybe Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas. Everyone else is suspect. Of course PED's offend me in baseball more than most folks around here. Oddly I sort of accept them as a fact of life in football.

See, I don't think you can even keep Maddux and Thomas out of the mess. They were on teams with players that were known users. It either needs to be a blanket accusation, or just accepted as a mar on the era. Like ZC said, you can't keep someone out based on suspicion. Raffy, ok. He tested positive. Sure, keep him out. But others that simply you think did it? It just doesn't make sense.

Like I said above, Ripken was accused at different times. So, do we revoke his membership?

[Cubfan06]

Bagwell got robbed. His name has never been attached to any lists of steroid users.

These voter's ballots should be made public

I completely agree. You could pencil Bagwell in for 100 RBI seasons for most of his career.

I don't agree with the precident which has been set with not allowing closers either. Lee Smith should have been allowed in a long time ago. He was automatic.