The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

This forum is for talking about non-music-related stuff that the DBT fanbase might be interested in. This is not the place for inside jokes and BS. Take that crap to some other board.

Moderators: Jonicont, mark lynn, Maluca3, Tequila Cowboy, BigTom, CooleyGirl, olwiggum

User avatar
Flea
Posts: 4132
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Underneath the veneer

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

beantownbubba wrote:
Flea wrote:I'm thinking much worse than that.
I don't know where this country is heading but I'm seeing fewer and fewer potential scenarios that don't involve violence before we get wherever we're going. I've never wanted to be more wrong about anything but the world has already gone to hell in a hand basket and I don't know what the next level(s) is other than it can't be good.
I'm pretty sure it's going to involve a bunch of butthurt white guys with AR15s and a point to make. We'll see how quickly the Republican Party has a change of heart towards firearm regulation when THEY are in the sight. If you listen at all to the AM gasbags and grievance merchants, the dog whistles and implications seem to me to be trending in that direction.
Now it's dark.

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15460
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

Flea wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:
Flea wrote:I'm thinking much worse than that.
I don't know where this country is heading but I'm seeing fewer and fewer potential scenarios that don't involve violence before we get wherever we're going. I've never wanted to be more wrong about anything but the world has already gone to hell in a hand basket and I don't know what the next level(s) is other than it can't be good.
I'm pretty sure it's going to involve a bunch of butthurt white guys with AR15s and a point to make. We'll see how quickly the Republican Party has a change of heart towards firearm regulation when THEY are in the sight. If you listen at all to the AM gasbags and grievance merchants, the dog whistles and implications seem to me to be trending in that direction.
Image
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

chuckrh
Posts: 3001
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by chuckrh »

I saw this commercial late night during South Park. I literally almost threw up. I kind of live on that edge a lot but this was beyond the pale. Be afraid....

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RSreIM[/youtube]

Image

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15460
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

I don’t see the problem, chuck. It’s one of those rare opportunities to own a piece of history. Plus, cozy, flag-themed blanket!! Win(ning)! Win(ning)!
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Yes, because the first 2 words that come to mind when I think "donald trump" are "warm" and "cuddly."

Love this phrase, cortez:
cortez the killer wrote:It’s one of those rare opportunities to own a piece of history.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

walthers
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by walthers »

I too saw the commercial about a month or so ago while watching South Park, I really thought it was some sort of skit that they slipped into the show. I then went on the internet and found that it is a real thing, mind blowing stuff there.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

I understand that reasonable people can disagree about the appropriate treatment of Captain Crozier. I understand the Navy's issues and I think they're serious. I would like to think that there might have been a lesser level of discipline that could have satisfied the Navy's objectives, but what do I know? I know that the Captain understood the risks of what he was doing and chose to do what he thought was right anyway. That's admirable imho but the consequences were part of the deal and if that's all there was I could live w/ it without being happy about it.

What I can't understand is Modly's speech to the crew. Once again, I hope that "our" veterans can weigh in on this. It seems to me to be a failure at every level but I am very aware that I never served and would really appreciate that perspective. Par for the course? To be expected? Motivating or appropriate in ways a landlubber like me can't understand? Or as bad as I think it was; totally demotivating and insulting to captain and crew as well as incredibly whiny, wimpy and self-serving?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

John A Arkansawyer
Posts: 7894
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansaw
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

beantownbubba wrote:I understand that reasonable people can disagree about the appropriate treatment of Captain Crozier. I understand the Navy's issues and I think they're serious. I would like to think that there might have been a lesser level of discipline that could have satisfied the Navy's objectives, but what do I know? I know that the Captain understood the risks of what he was doing and chose to do what he thought was right anyway. That's admirable imho but the consequences were part of the deal and if that's all there was I could live w/ it without being happy about it.

What I can't understand is Modly's speech to the crew. Once again, I hope that "our" veterans can weigh in on this. It seems to me to be a failure at every level but I am very aware that I never served and would really appreciate that perspective. Par for the course? To be expected? Motivating or appropriate in ways a landlubber like me can't understand? Or as bad as I think it was; totally demotivating and insulting to captain and crew as well as incredibly whiny, wimpy and self-serving?
When I first heard about the remarks, I looked Modly up and discovered he was a graduate of the Naval Academy, so I was inclined to believe he was a professional. Then I read the remarks. I've heard an academy graduate describe a proper ass-chewing; by comparison, this was a sorry performance.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

And now Trump has virtually untrammeled access to the better part of TWO TRILLION DOLLARS. This will not end well for the rest of us.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

beantownbubba wrote:And now Trump has virtually untrammeled access to the better part of TWO TRILLION DOLLARS. This will not end well for the rest of us.
Thank Nancy for that. And no it won't.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

LBRod wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:And now Trump has virtually untrammeled access to the better part of TWO TRILLION DOLLARS. This will not end well for the rest of us.
Thank Nancy for that. And no it won't.
Did Nancy fire all of the IG's (aka the people whose job is to provide oversight)??
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Zip City wrote:
LBRod wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:And now Trump has virtually untrammeled access to the better part of TWO TRILLION DOLLARS. This will not end well for the rest of us.
Thank Nancy for that. And no it won't.
Did Nancy fire all of the IG's (aka the people whose job is to provide oversight)??
Nancy is in charge of the spending.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:
Zip City wrote:
LBRod wrote: Thank Nancy for that. And no it won't.
Did Nancy fire all of the IG's (aka the people whose job is to provide oversight)??
Nancy is in charge of the spending.
Right. So Nancy made a deal to supervise that spending. The deal got broken. IMHO Nancy bears some of the blame for not anticipating that but how much is a very good and open question. It could be a lot, but I'd have a hard time with all. However much blame one assigns to her, to me her bigger (or maybe at least as big) mistake was losing control of the bill in the early stages so she was always fighting from a rear guard, reactive position.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

But if she kept control it would be fine to spend 2 trillion more when we are already running trillion dollar deficits?
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

Zip City
Posts: 17313
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

LBRod wrote:But if she kept control it would be fine to spend 2 trillion more when we are already running trillion dollar deficits?
Are you arguing against emergency stimulus?
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:But if she kept control it would be fine to spend 2 trillion more when we are already running trillion dollar deficits?
Honestly? I really don't know. An adult lifetime of education tells me that it's completely nuts. An adult lifetime of experience tells me that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and these measures are certainly extraordinary. Similar measures certainly made a difference in the 2009ish era and the conventional wisdom is, I think, that even more would have been better. Another impossible to measure (for me, anyway) trade off is the almost certain amelioration of significant immediate pain that the stimulus will bring in the short term and the likelihood that it will make the recession shorter and less severe than it otherwise would be (which in turn will bring some relief in the form of higher tax receipts) versus the impossibly heavy debt load we will force on generations to come, who will not only have to repay the debt but whose choices and flexibility will be severely limited by this albatross.

I believe for sure that a smaller, better targeted, better controlled stimulus would surely be the right thing to do at this time so now we're just talking a matter of (a) degree and (b) the geometric rise in opportunities for fraud, abuse, corruption and waste as the amounts get larger. Within those parameters or concerns I really don't know where the sweet spot is but I do believe that doing nothing is not an option and I do believe that lack of oversight is far worse than legitimate, adequate oversight.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

beantownbubba wrote:
LBRod wrote:But if she kept control it would be fine to spend 2 trillion more when we are already running trillion dollar deficits?
Honestly? I really don't know. An adult lifetime of education tells me that it's completely nuts. An adult lifetime of experience tells me that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and these measures are certainly extraordinary. Similar measures certainly made a difference in the 2009ish era and the conventional wisdom is, I think, that even more would have been better. Another impossible to measure (for me, anyway) trade off is the almost certain amelioration of significant immediate pain that the stimulus will bring in the short term and the likelihood that it will make the recession shorter and less severe than it otherwise would be (which in turn will bring some relief in the form of higher tax receipts) versus the impossibly heavy debt load we will force on generations to come, who will not only have to repay the debt but whose choices and flexibility will be severely limited by this albatross.

I believe for sure that a smaller, better targeted, better controlled stimulus would surely be the right thing to do at this time so now we're just talking a matter of (a) degree and (b) the geometric rise in opportunities for fraud, abuse, corruption and waste as the amounts get larger. Within those parameters or concerns I really don't know where the sweet spot is but I do believe that doing nothing is not an option and I do believe that lack of oversight is far worse than legitimate, adequate oversight.
I agree with lots of that, Bubba. Something must be done. This is something, therefore it must be done. I have given up on big government action making any sense.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

LBRod wrote:Something must be done. This is something, therefore it must be done. I have given up on big government action making any sense.
Just for yucks, let's take a look at some of what's already approved:

There seems to be widespread agreement that direct payments to individuals is the best short-term action we can take. That means one of 2 things: Either we're on to something really smart, or if there's that much agreement something's gotta be wrong with it. Let's assume the former. So where are we? Not a penny has been distributed yet and it's pretty clear that the money is gonna be distributed much more slowly than intended or the theory requires for maximum impact. There will inevitably be thousands of mistakes, snafus, fuck ups, what have you. So while well intended and maybe even right, it's not likely that this will have the full impact desired and at least imho, we're already past the point at which this can be considered "fast acting".

The small business loan program (PPP) is to my way of thinking surprisingly clever by government standards in aiming to incentivize desirable decisions and actions by a fairly carefully targeted audience. But I can see already that this program is not going to work in practice, at least not nearly to the necessary level. Too much money being spent too fast by a system ill equipped to handle it and with too many loopholes and opportunities for wiseguys to take advantage of it. If the intent can be boiled down to keeping business payrolls high and people employed for the key April/May period, I very much doubt that will happen as a matter of timing for sure and because I think it unlikely that the necessary overwhelming majority of recipients will use the funds as intended.

The $500 Billion big business bailout. Gimme a break. This is nothing but an unsupervised slush fund and a pit of corruption so deep and wide as to be unprecedented. Poorly designed, without clear objectives or properly designed incentives, it's a trough for the biggest, fattest, loudest and best connected pigs to feed at and as far as I can tell, likely to be a very large waste of money.

Not too encouraging. Let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. In particular, it's possible that if the direct payments roll out more smoothly than I anticipate, the impact could be large and more or less as intended.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard


User avatar
Howlinwolf
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:57 pm
Location: The Valley of the Sun

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Howlinwolf »

You don't want this scumbag from New York as your President elect.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/stop-the- ... iety-show/

User avatar
tinnitus photography
Posts: 7251
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:49 pm
Contact:

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by tinnitus photography »

Howlinwolf wrote:You don't want this scumbag from New York as your President elect.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/stop-the- ... iety-show/
did he ever say he was going to run?

I don't know very much about his political history in NY, but i will say it's been night and day to compare his pressers to Trump's. He's prepared, he knows the data, he bases future actions against projections and adjusts course as needed. pretty much what you'd expect a leader to do.

User avatar
schlanky
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:27 pm
Location: Take a left on the interstate.

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by schlanky »

Howlinwolf wrote:You don't want this scumbag from New York as your President elect.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/stop-the- ... iety-show/
At this point I'll take any non-Republican who can beat Trump. And Biden isn't a good candidate. I shudder at the thought of Biden trying to hold his own in a debate against Trump----Biden often can't hold his own in just making a speech. If more folks would vote for Cuomo than Biden and Cuomo could somehow get in, I'd be all in for Cuomo.

Since Cuomo isn't running and Biden is the only person left, maybe (hopefully) Biden will prove me wrong.
Let the outside air in

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Howlinwolf wrote:You don't want this scumbag from New York as your President elect.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/stop-the- ... iety-show/
Huh.

Let me say right up top that my impression of Andrew Cuomo pre-virus was vague and neutral to slightly negative. If I was trying to be snarky I probably would have dismissed him as a pale version of his father.

As far as I know, Andrew Cuomo is not running for president. And as far as I'm willing to bet, he will not be the Democratic nominee in 2020. But there's an awful to unpack from that article anyway.

Here's the thing: There are very few moments in life that really count. I figure that we each will face a couple, no more than a handful, of key moments that will define us and the same goes for public figures. Either we step up or we fall down. Fair or not, that's just the way it works and it applies to all parts of the political spectrum. Just for example,these are the two moments (in chronological order) that I would put in that category: (i) being forced to make a very weighty and important decision at work w/ many millions of dollars and perhaps the future of the company on the line where I figured doing the right thing (as I saw it) would get me fired; I chose to do the right thing and got fired. (ii) Helping and supporting my son through his cancer ordeal.

Trump and Cuomo are both facing that kind of moment. It's the kind of thing that can literally erase all that came before: If Trump stepped up, he could have shattered 3 years of horribly negative stuff and turned himself into a hero. He is falling down and reinforcing and increasing the negative impression many have of him. Cuomo is stepping up and is erasing a lot of negativity. Giuliani post 9/11 is the obvious comparison. So scumbag or not (as to which I am agnostic), like it or not, it appears that Cuomo will emerge from this trying time with his stature considerably enhanced.

Somewhere along the line, hard questions became confused with "gotcha questions." Just because the true answer would be embarrassing to the president doesn't make the questions "gotcha." I don't watch the "press briefings" but my understanding is that Trump regularly insults and belittles the press and individual reporters. If some of them sometimes respond in kind (with e.g. a question aimed to embarrass or to make a point) that doesn't seem surprising and does seem to me to be the fault of both sides. Let me state the obvious just in case: It is the job of the press to ask hard questions and to dig hard if they feel they are being lied to or if information is being withheld. That can create situations where "hard" and "gotcha" questions becomes a mighty fine line but the line exists and, again, the mere fact that questions are hard or that the answers might be embarrassing does not automatically make them gotcha.

Again, I don't watch, but my understanding of the Cuomo Brothers "show" is that it is not presented as journalism per se but as more of a human interest story. On that basis, and with the relationship between the brothers disclosed, it may bug Andrew's detractors that he gets that free fuzzy screen time, but it doesn't seem wrong or problematic to me. To the extent that it is presented as journalism and/or the relationship is not disclosed then that would indeed be a problem. As I say I don't watch so I have no opinion on that I'm just repeating what I've read.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

User avatar
Howlinwolf
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:57 pm
Location: The Valley of the Sun

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Howlinwolf »

Thanks BTB for your excellent feedback. Appreciate your many fine points, but as a current resident of Manhattan, it is painful to to witness day in and day out of exactly what is going on here. Just google the cover of today's NY Daily News and you'll get the idea.

I guess DeBlasio ( our Mayor ) and Cuomo have been battling it out for years and if given a choice between the two, I'd go for Cuomo as well. He definitely provides more direction, but like yourself, I'm not watching these pressers either ( or Trumps )

Have faith we will all pull through this and move forward - be safe y'all

User avatar
Howlinwolf
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:57 pm
Location: The Valley of the Sun

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Howlinwolf »


User avatar
schlanky
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:27 pm
Location: Take a left on the interstate.

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by schlanky »

beantownbubba wrote: Trump and Cuomo are both facing that kind of moment. It's the kind of thing that can literally erase all that came before: If Trump stepped up, he could have shattered 3 years of horribly negative stuff and turned himself into a hero. He is falling down and reinforcing and increasing the negative impression many have of him.
(cutting the rest of the post for page brevity)

Great post, BTB
Let the outside air in

beantownbubba
Posts: 21751
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Trying to stay focused on the righteous path

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

schlanky wrote:
beantownbubba wrote: Trump and Cuomo are both facing that kind of moment. It's the kind of thing that can literally erase all that came before: If Trump stepped up, he could have shattered 3 years of horribly negative stuff and turned himself into a hero. He is falling down and reinforcing and increasing the negative impression many have of him.
(cutting the rest of the post for page brevity)

Great post, BTB
Thanks!
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

LBRod
Posts: 4362
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm
Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

Those with negative opinions of him don't need any reinforcement.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff.

User avatar
cortez the killer
Posts: 15460
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

What makes Andrew Cuomo a "scumbag"?
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM

User avatar
Howlinwolf
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:57 pm
Location: The Valley of the Sun

Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Howlinwolf »

Be a resident of New York and you will get the picture

Post Reply