The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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pearlbeer
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

The Paris Accord and now the Iran Deal. The Dotard gave no fact-based reason to pull out of the deal against damn near every major World Leader's advice. What little evidence he gave wasn't really even fact based. I can't understand the tolerance we collectively have for continuous lies. What a truly fucked-up time to be alive.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

When Luke Heimlich was 16 he pled guilty to molesting his niece when she was 6 and he was 15. He complied w/ all court ordered punishments/rehab and his record was expunged (or something similar) after 5 years. He's also an apparently top notch pitcher for one of the better college baseball programs in the country, Oregon State.

Should he be allowed to pitch? Damn hard question if you ask me. Having just read of the case today I don't have a good answer, but I doubt i'll come up w/ one even after I ponder it for a while.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/spor ... 5647280508
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scotto
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by scotto »

beantownbubba wrote:Should he be allowed to pitch? Damn hard question if you ask me.
Another question is Why shouldn't he be allowed to pitch (or get a degree or run for office or vote or whatever have you)? Since my business is rehabilitation, I'm passionate about smart second chances.
If he did his time and hasn't reoffended, he should be allowed to do anything anyone else can. Except work in a daycare or coach little league, etc.--I get that. I also get that sex offenders have an ick factor that causes society/courts/law enforcement/etc. to err on the side of caution with regulations and protections. But our sex offender laws are based on fear, not facts, and all those things like residency restrictions and registries and 1,000' buffer zones might make us feel better, but they do nothing to prevent sexual assault. In fact, research shows that these approaches actually increase risk since they tend to limit support and socialization--evidence-based protective factors against reoffending.
Sex offenders actually have the second-lowest recidivism rate (behind murderers, which is lowest). Know the highest? Burglary/robbery. Why isn't there a burglar registry? Or a domestic violence registry?
But no matter what the research says, I get that sex offenses are hard to treat like any other crime.
Well, I have a day off today and here I am talking shop.

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scotto
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by scotto »

And speaking of politics, about the only cool thing about working for the state of Missouri is that we get Truman's birthday off.

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Yay, Harry.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

scotto wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:Should he be allowed to pitch? Damn hard question if you ask me.
Another question is Why shouldn't he be allowed to pitch (or get a degree or run for office or vote or whatever have you)? Since my business is rehabilitation, I'm passionate about smart second chances.
If he did his time and hasn't reoffended, he should be allowed to do anything anyone else can. Except work in a daycare or coach little league, etc.--I get that. I also get that sex offenders have an ick factor that causes society/courts/law enforcement/etc. to err on the side of caution with regulations and protections. But our sex offender laws are based on fear, not facts, and all those things like residency restrictions and registries and 1,000' buffer zones might make us feel better, but they do nothing to prevent sexual assault. In fact, research shows that these approaches actually increase risk since they tend to limit support and socialization--evidence-based protective factors against reoffending.
Sex offenders actually have the second-lowest recidivism rate (behind murderers, which is lowest). Know the highest? Burglary/robbery. Why isn't there a burglar registry? Or a domestic violence registry?
But no matter what the research says, I get that sex offenses are hard to treat like any other crime.
Well, I have a day off today and here I am talking shop.
Well said, scotto. Not debating, just trying to articulate what I believe the counter arguments to be:

Sexual abuse of minors doesn't just have an "ick factor" (although it does have that), it's also considered by many to be more heinous than other crimes. That raises at least 2 questions: Is it? And if so, what level of punishment is a reasonable response to that level of heinousness?

There is also more concern for the victims than there is for a typical crime. If the 6 yr old is going to grow up seeing her cousin lionized, made a hero by many and succeeding in a very public way while she continues to suffer nightmares and worse, is that fair to her? Or to other victims struggling w/ the same post abuse long term traumas?

In this case the perpetrator pled guilty sparing the victim the ordeal of testifying, but what about those cases in which the victim does testify and is put through the wringer both in court and sometimes in the press that we all know that entails? Isn't that deserving of some additional penalties on the perp?

More of an aside than an argument: A lot of these points also apply to rape but it seems harder to generate popular support for adult victims and easier to generate that support for child victims. Should the fact that popular anger and empathy is easier to build on behalf of child victims matter?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

scotto wrote:And speaking of politics, about the only cool thing about working for the state of Missouri is that we get Truman's birthday off.

Image

Yay, Harry.
At least he knew where the buck stopped.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

beantownbubba wrote:
scotto wrote:And speaking of politics, about the only cool thing about working for the state of Missouri is that we get Truman's birthday off.

Image

Yay, Harry.
At least he knew where the buck stopped.
I had the 45 of this when it was a hit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by LBRod »

pearlbeer wrote:The Paris Accord and now the Iran Deal. The Dotard gave no fact-based reason to pull out of the deal against damn near every major World Leader's advice. What little evidence he gave wasn't really even fact based. I can't understand the tolerance we collectively have for continuous lies. What a truly fucked-up time to be alive.
He doesn't need evidence. He has a pen and a phone. This is the problem with executive action. If they were actual treaties this would not be happening.
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scotto
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by scotto »

beantownbubba wrote:Not debating, just trying to articulate what I believe the counter arguments to be...
Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that. Especially the victim-impact angle. That's definitely the unique wildcard in trying to balance equitable punishment with responsible rehabilitation. I guess what makes it tricky is that you can't erase past victimization and the goal is to prevent new victims. If we want to reduce risk of future offending, we have to pay attention to research and evidence-based practice, which is cold, hard objectivism. If we want to protect/respect victims, we may have to ignore what's best (according to research) for greater society.
I get to wrestle with this stuff daily, which is endlessly fascinating, but never a picnic.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

John "who you callin' shanty?" Kelly:

The vast majority....They're overwhelmingly rural people. (Where) they come from, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-grade educations are kind of the norm. They don't speak English; obviously that's a big thing. ... They don't integrate well; they don't have skills.

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Is it that trade wars are actually hard; that having the courage of one's convictions is actually hard; or that having no convictions, actually having courage is impossible?

I truly do not have "the answer" (although I'm pretty sure there's not a single answer) to America's trade issues especially as they relate to job losses, theft of intellectual property and balance of payments problems & the effect they have on the larger economy. But I do know that changing your mind every 48 hours is not the way to run a government.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:Is it that trade wars are actually hard; that having the courage of one's convictions is actually hard; or that having no convictions, actually having courage is impossible?

I truly do not have "the answer" (although I'm pretty sure there's not a single answer) to America's trade issues especially as they relate to job losses, theft of intellectual property and balance of payments problems & the effect they have on the larger economy. But I do know that changing your mind every 48 hours is not the way to run a government.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

Extra points for the red hat, cortez. :) The Trumpster has been making China great again at least since the second day of his administration when he withdrew the US from the Trans Pacific Partnership in return for...absolutely nothing. Of course about a month ago he instructed his minions to find a way back into the TPP for the US. Hmmmmm...is that a theme I sense?
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Beyond the terrible trade negotiation aspect of this recent China news, there have been multiple reports that there are significant national security issues with ZTE, which is why past administrations kept that company at arm's length. Trump cares not for these things, of course
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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ZTE is fucked because the U.S. Commerce Department banned them after it was found to have violated U.S. sanctions by selling equipment to Iran and North Korea. Oh, the irony!
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:Is it that trade wars are actually hard; that having the courage of one's convictions is actually hard; or that having no convictions, actually having courage is impossible?

I truly do not have "the answer" (although I'm pretty sure there's not a single answer) to America's trade issues especially as they relate to job losses, theft of intellectual property and balance of payments problems & the effect they have on the larger economy. But I do know that changing your mind every 48 hours is not the way to run a government.
Conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin of the WaPo on the same issue(s):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... pns&wpmm=1
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:Is it that trade wars are actually hard; that having the courage of one's convictions is actually hard; or that having no convictions, actually having courage is impossible?

I truly do not have "the answer" (although I'm pretty sure there's not a single answer) to America's trade issues especially as they relate to job losses, theft of intellectual property and balance of payments problems & the effect they have on the larger economy. But I do know that changing your mind every 48 hours is not the way to run a government.
Conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin of the WaPo on the same issue(s):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... pns&wpmm=1
I've recently read a few opinion pieces that have praised Trump's "chaotic" leadership style and how well it is working, which is obviously an unbelievable spin on things. There is no doubt in my mind the "chaos" stems predominantly from this observation from the article:
one is again struck by Trump’s jaw-dropping lack of discipline and precision.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

cortez the killer wrote:Image
And here I was thinking the whole China thing was to help DOTUS with North Korea :roll: :roll: :roll:

Trump Indonesia Real Estate Project Gets Chinese Government Ally

The timing is awkward.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

cortez the killer wrote:Image
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Trump Indonesia Real Estate Project Gets Chinese Government Ally

The timing is awkward.
It's not "awkward;" it's a fucking outrage. Which I bother to respond to only on the basis of "we have to be careful not to normalize or shrug off these kinds of things which were shocking less than 18 months ago."
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

beantownbubba wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Trump Indonesia Real Estate Project Gets Chinese Government Ally

The timing is awkward.
It's not "awkward;" it's a fucking outrage. Which I bother to respond to only on the basis of "we have to be careful not to normalize or shrug off these kinds of things which were shocking less than 18 months ago."
The timing is awkward was a direct quote from the article, just to be clear

And dude's gonna get away with this just like he does everything else. Gotta say, it doesn't surprise me that all of this is happening in this country, but it is a bit surprising that it's this shitbum of a loser that's pulled it off. If nothing else, Trump has ripped the lid off the box that contains all the lies and myths about American greatness. Any country/people that fell for what he's selling couldn't be that collectively great to start with.

Yeah, I said it :x :x :x

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by pearlbeer »

beantownbubba wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Trump Indonesia Real Estate Project Gets Chinese Government Ally

The timing is awkward.
It's not "awkward;" it's a fucking outrage. Which I bother to respond to only on the basis of "we have to be careful not to normalize or shrug off these kinds of things which were shocking less than 18 months ago."
It is an outrage. But, at this point, very little matters anymore. There are no consequences, at least for Republicans. Eric Schneiderman accused of misconduct, resigns within three hours. Blake Farenthold hangs on for months and now has a cush lobbying job. Additionally, he just backed out on repaying the $85,000 he owes me. If you have an (R) following you name these days, it sure doesn't stand for Righteous. I've built up a significant callous towards this moral reprehensible and criminal behavior, hoping it will get me through till the midterms. All these fuckers must be voted out. It's our only hope.

Side note, and I'm not going to made to feel guilty about body-shaming. I'm asshole shaming here. Seriously...this guy in a sex scandal?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

who you callin' pajama boy???

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by beantownbubba »

beantownbubba wrote:Some folks are trying to get #kidsorguns to trend on twitter. If you're so inclined, please join them. Obviously you can say what you want, but if you're looking for a template/suggestion, here's what I tweeted:

It's time for single issue voting!! NO NRA money; NO pro NRA votes!!! #kidsorguns Which side are YOU on?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/20/opin ... 5647280521
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

so, so much to unpack here



more like Betsy Devoid
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Swamp »

Didn't want to derail the other threads but I got Decoration Day on the turntable and I'm sipping on GD in honor of all the men and boys who died for our forefathers sins.
Starting the Decoration Day weekend early.
and the rest as they say is uh er uh, well somebodies history somewhere?

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Flea »

Swamp wrote:Didn't want to derail the other threads but I got Decoration Day on the turntable and I'm sipping on GD in honor of all the men and boys who died for our forefathers sins.
Starting the Decoration Day weekend early.
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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

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Re: The Neverending Thread for Political Shit

Post by Zip City »

Planting the seeds for delegitamizing the mid-terms
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