MLB 2017

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Re: MLB 2017

Postby whatwouldcooleydo? » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:05 pm



yeah, there were some throws to the wrong position in there, but still, dude can fly
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby whatwouldcooleydo? » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:05 pm

Yesterday Clayton Kershaw became the first pitcher in MLB history to strike out at least 13 in a complete game with fewer than 100 pitches. Dude is 14-2 with a 2.18 ERA at the break. Hate the Dodgers but, damn, game recognize game
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby jr29 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:44 pm

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Yesterday Clayton Kershaw became the first pitcher in MLB history to strike out at least 13 in a complete game with fewer than 100 pitches. Dude is 14-2 with a 2.18 ERA at the break. Hate the Dodgers but, damn, game recognize game


And I think it was a two hour and fifteen minute game. That's a Koufax/Gibson kinda game. I love it.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:32 pm

jr29 wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Yesterday Clayton Kershaw became the first pitcher in MLB history to strike out at least 13 in a complete game with fewer than 100 pitches. Dude is 14-2 with a 2.18 ERA at the break. Hate the Dodgers but, damn, game recognize game


And I think it was a two hour and fifteen minute game. That's a Koufax/Gibson kinda game. I love it.


And then he falls apart in the playoffs.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby jr29 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:37 pm

Zip City wrote:
jr29 wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:Yesterday Clayton Kershaw became the first pitcher in MLB history to strike out at least 13 in a complete game with fewer than 100 pitches. Dude is 14-2 with a 2.18 ERA at the break. Hate the Dodgers but, damn, game recognize game


And I think it was a two hour and fifteen minute game. That's a Koufax/Gibson kinda game. I love it.


And then he falls apart in the playoffs.


I'm a Cards fan so I've really loved that part over the years.


Also....I hate the home run derby. Mickey mantle hit a ball 565 feet during an actual game in the 1960's. I'm not shocked when someone today hits a 490 foot homer during batting practice.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby whatwouldcooleydo? » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:09 pm

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Re: MLB 2017

Postby beantownbubba » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:33 am

jr29 wrote:nd I think it was a two hour and fifteen minute game. That's a Koufax/Gibson kinda game. I love it.


Hell yeah! That's what I'm talking about! We need a few hundred more of under 2:30 games. It would be hard to overstate Kershaw's greatness. Barring injury, he and Trout are the guys we'll be telling our grandkids about, claiming that if Kershaw were pitching today he'd probably have about a 3.50 ERA. That's all grandpa? What's so great about that? Well don't forget he's 60.

jr29 wrote:Also....I hate the home run derby. Mickey mantle hit a ball 565 feet during an actual game in the 1960's. I'm not shocked when someone today hits a 490 foot homer during batting practice.


I hear that. Every time I hear about or see the HR Derby I think the same thing (along w/ thinking about the "Ted Williams seat" at Fenway, marking the location of his 502 foot blast), but I have to say that taken as a goof, as an exhibition, as just a fun time that I'd sure as hell never pay to watch (how much are those tickets anyway?) it can be fun. What caught my attention this year was the extent to which the contestants really got into the 1 on 1 battles, really working to beat theit bracket opponent - fun, but real, competition.

But what's the deal w/ the All Star game? Doesn't it still determine home field advantage in the World Series? IOW doesn't it count, as the ads said just a few years ago? If so, why are batters being interviewed as they head to the plate? Why is A Rod wandering around the field interviewing players as the inning is starting? I had to turn the circus off at that point; couldn't even watch it on the terms I just described for the HR Derby. Feh.

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:The All-Time Leaders In Undeserved All-Star Appearances


Assuming that the All Star game is solely about the best players is a flawed assumption at best.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:32 am

No, it doesn't determine home field anymore
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Mr. B » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:26 pm

http://abc7chicago.com/sports/jose-quintana-goes-from-white-sox-to-cubs/2212949/

You think the guy in the Cubs hat at about 1:20 of this clip has any idea of what he is talking about?
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby beantownbubba » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:52 pm

Mr. B wrote:http://abc7chicago.com/sports/jose-quintana-goes-from-white-sox-to-cubs/2212949/

You think the guy in the Cubs hat at about 1:20 of this clip has any idea of what he is talking about?


:o 8-) 8-)
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:55 pm

Mr. B wrote:http://abc7chicago.com/sports/jose-quintana-goes-from-white-sox-to-cubs/2212949/

You think the guy in the Cubs hat at about 1:20 of this clip has any idea of what he is talking about?


That was fun. :D
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:13 pm

beantownbubba wrote:
Mr. B wrote:http://abc7chicago.com/sports/jose-quintana-goes-from-white-sox-to-cubs/2212949/

You think the guy in the Cubs hat at about 1:20 of this clip has any idea of what he is talking about?


:o 8-) 8-)


What does some bumpkin from Mississippi know about the Cubs? :lol:
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:35 am

Pablo Sandoval's deal may go down as top five worst in history. 5/$95M, and he's released after posting a -2.6 WAR with Boston. Yeesh
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby beantownbubba » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:51 am

Zip City wrote:Pablo Sandoval's deal may go down as top five worst in history. 5/$95M, and he's released after posting a -2.6 WAR with Boston. Yeesh


Oh yeah, truly awful and I don't think there's a "may" about it. Very glad it's not my money. OTOH, big, big win against the Yankees last night scoring 2 runs in the bottom of the 9th against the big 100 mph closer (Chapman) w/out a ball leaving the infield. Hey, they don't give out points for artistry. Was in CT last nite so watched the game on the Yankees network. Different perspective :)
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Sterling Bigmouth » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:21 pm

Heading to Atlanta tomorrow to catch the end of the Diamondbacks-Braves series. Hoping the rain holds off so I can see an MVP candidate in Paul Goldschmidt and (hopefully) Freddie Freeman.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby beantownbubba » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:29 am

beantownbubba wrote:big, big win against the Yankees last night scoring 2 runs in the bottom of the 9th against the big 100 mph closer (Chapman) w/out a ball leaving the infield. Hey, they don't give out points for artistry.


Baseball. So the Sox and Yanks hook up in a classic pitcher's duel, Sox leading 1-0 in the 9th on the strength of another dominant performance by Chris Sale. Ace closer Craig Kimbrel gives up the tying bomb to Matt Holliday in the top of the 9th and the game goes 16 innings before the Yanks pull it out in almost 6 hours. And they have a day/nite doubleheader today. Thankfully the bizarre play in the 11th involving Holliday didn't affect the outcome. IMHO, it was clearly interference and should have been called a double play, but surprisingly enough, neither the umpires nor the NY office asked me.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:58 pm

Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby beantownbubba » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:24 pm

The best things about today's Sox-Yanks game:

Organist Josh Kantor serenading the disappointed Nation w/ "Hell No I Ain't Happy" as the crowd filed out.
Free tickets.
Beautiful day for a baseball game. Heck, let's play 2! Which they are.
Very good seats in very comfortable shade for the entire game.
Brock Holt made it back, at least for now, and got a hit, too (and an error)
Rick Porcello pitched just well enough to lose, which is at least a step in the right direction.
Sox-Yanks still means more than "just another game" (though nothing compared to the glory days of the rivalry).

OTOH, the Sox have now not scored in 23 innings and counting. They could have dealt the Yankees a serious blow to their playoff chances this weekend but now need a win tonite just to escape w/ their dignity.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Sterling Bigmouth » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:46 pm

Just got back from Atlanta, glad to say I got to see the Bravos claw back to .500 for the first time since the 2nd week of the season! Don’t think they’ll still be hanging around at the end of the season, but they’re at least setting themselves up for an interesting trade deadline/wild card race.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Mr. B » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:46 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.


Yep, the weekend went as well as any Cubs fan could have asked. Let's hope this is the beginning of the streak we have all been waiting for. After the Braves, they have a key stretch of Cardinals/White Sox/Brewers.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Cubfan06 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:50 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.


It was fun to watch Quintana pitch that efficiently and as fan its nice to watch a pitcher who works quickly. His laser point control on the corners was impressive.

I'd be in favor of Almora Jr getting some more at bats against lefties. Granted the sample is smaller, because he isn't getting enough playing time, however his splits against lefties are sick. He is clearly an elite defender if put in any of the outfield positions as well. If they don't plan on him being a long term answer in CF than perhaps he can be a piece that helps you yield a Sonny Gray. I can't help but feel like he is kind of wasting away right now in lieu of letting a one tool player in Schwarber try to rectify his swing.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:26 pm

Cubfan06 wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.


It was fun to watch Quintana pitch that efficiently and as fan its nice to watch a pitcher who works quickly. His laser point control on the corners was impressive.

I'd be in favor of Almora Jr getting some more at bats against lefties. Granted the sample is smaller, because he isn't getting enough playing time, however his splits against lefties are sick. He is clearly an elite defender if put in any of the outfield positions as well. If they don't plan on him being a long term answer in CF than perhaps he can be a piece that helps you yield a Sonny Gray. I can't help but feel like he is kind of wasting away right now in lieu of letting a one tool player in Schwarber try to rectify his swing.


That's where I disagree with you. Schwarber is not a 1 tool player. He was a 65 grade power prospect, yes, but he was also a 60 grade (!!) for his hit tool. Theo even said as much when he was demoted. They saw him becoming a slugger where they see a hitter, and they should. That 60 grade hit tool is higher that Eloy Jiminez who people were so upset to give up. Too many people see Schwarber and think Adam Dunn when they should be thinking a ceiling of a LH version of Frank Thomas. Will he get there? I think so but baseball is a funny game.

As far as Sonny Gray goes the best indicator we have on what it's going to take to get him is that the Astros, who need him quite badly in much the same way the Cubs needed Chapman last year (final piece and all that), have consistently refused Oakland's offer of Gray for Alex Bregman. If that's what Beane is looking for I might go Russell or Happ and get it done. As much as I love Schwarber I would have moved him to the A's if the deal had included Doolittle but he was moved to the Nats yesterday. Ultimately I think Houston gets Gray but I wouldn't wouldn't discount the Cubs and I would call the Braves a solid dark horse candidate for him. The Brewers would be crazy to trade someone like Lewis Hinson or Corey Ray for him and that's what it will take. It actually sucks for a rebuilding team to compete too early. I think Stearns either stands pat or gets a fringy guy for the rotation a-la Dan Haren for the Cubs in 2015.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:05 pm

There's zero chance I give up Russell or Happ on Gray considering his injury history
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Mr. B » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:15 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Cubfan06 wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.


It was fun to watch Quintana pitch that efficiently and as fan its nice to watch a pitcher who works quickly. His laser point control on the corners was impressive.

I'd be in favor of Almora Jr getting some more at bats against lefties. Granted the sample is smaller, because he isn't getting enough playing time, however his splits against lefties are sick. He is clearly an elite defender if put in any of the outfield positions as well. If they don't plan on him being a long term answer in CF than perhaps he can be a piece that helps you yield a Sonny Gray. I can't help but feel like he is kind of wasting away right now in lieu of letting a one tool player in Schwarber try to rectify his swing.


That's where I disagree with you. Schwarber is not a 1 tool player. He was a 65 grade power prospect, yes, but he was also a 60 grade (!!) for his hit tool. Theo even said as much when he was demoted. They saw him becoming a slugger where they see a hitter, and they should. That 60 grade hit tool is higher that Eloy Jiminez who people were so upset to give up. Too many people see Schwarber and think Adam Dunn when they should be thinking a ceiling of a LH version of Frank Thomas. Will he get there? I think so but baseball is a funny game.

As far as Sonny Gray goes the best indicator we have on what it's going to take to get him is that the Astros, who need him quite badly in much the same way the Cubs needed Chapman last year (final piece and all that), have consistently refused Oakland's offer of Gray for Alex Bregman. If that's what Beane is looking for I might go Russell or Happ and get it done. As much as I love Schwarber I would have moved him to the A's if the deal had included Doolittle but he was moved to the Nats yesterday. Ultimately I think Houston gets Gray but I wouldn't wouldn't discount the Cubs and I would call the Braves a solid dark horse candidate for him. The Brewers would be crazy to trade someone like Lewis Hinson or Corey Ray for him and that's what it will take. It actually sucks for a rebuilding team to compete too early. I think Stearns either stands pat or gets a fringy guy for the rotation a-la Dan Haren for the Cubs in 2015.



Whoa Nelly, let's slow down on the Schwarber to Frank Thomas comparisons. (And i know you said "ceiling"). In any event, I think the Cubs' hot start coming out of the break may make it more likely that Theo and company sit back and decide they like what they see and will ride the horses they have. Or I could be totally wrong, that's been known to happen.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:27 am

I think Aaron Judge is a much better comp to Frank Thomas than Schwarber is.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:57 am

Zip City wrote:I think Aaron Judge is a much better comp to Frank Thomas than Schwarber is.


Ok, but Judge has never been ranked as high in his hit tool as Schwarber was. He's really blowing away expectations in that aspect. I'm going on memory but I think his hit tool was a 50 grade where Schwarber was a 60. Theo was always pretty consistent in that if Schwarber reaches his ceiling he'd be the best hitter on that team. Will he reach it? I don't know, I think so but there are no guarantees. The point is that if he's a .240/.390/.550 guy with 40 plus HR every year with a 25-28% K rate he's a slugger, a very good one but a slugger. Anything below that has still has value in varying degrees. That is not what he is supposed to be. His ceiling is probably lowering the K rate to about 20-22% and slashing .290/.390/.600 with the same HR totals. basically somewhere in the Rizzo range with a little more pop.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Cubfan06 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:09 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Cubfan06 wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Jose Quintana pitches a gem in his Cubs debut and leads his team to an sweep of the Orioles. Maybe this ship can be righted after all. 25 runs in 3 games and not dominated by the long ball.


It was fun to watch Quintana pitch that efficiently and as fan its nice to watch a pitcher who works quickly. His laser point control on the corners was impressive.

I'd be in favor of Almora Jr getting some more at bats against lefties. Granted the sample is smaller, because he isn't getting enough playing time, however his splits against lefties are sick. He is clearly an elite defender if put in any of the outfield positions as well. If they don't plan on him being a long term answer in CF than perhaps he can be a piece that helps you yield a Sonny Gray. I can't help but feel like he is kind of wasting away right now in lieu of letting a one tool player in Schwarber try to rectify his swing.


That's where I disagree with you. Schwarber is not a 1 tool player. He was a 65 grade power prospect, yes, but he was also a 60 grade (!!) for his hit tool. Theo even said as much when he was demoted. They saw him becoming a slugger where they see a hitter, and they should. That 60 grade hit tool is higher that Eloy Jiminez who people were so upset to give up. Too many people see Schwarber and think Adam Dunn when they should be thinking a ceiling of a LH version of Frank Thomas. Will he get there? I think so but baseball is a funny game.

As far as Sonny Gray goes the best indicator we have on what it's going to take to get him is that the Astros, who need him quite badly in much the same way the Cubs needed Chapman last year (final piece and all that), have consistently refused Oakland's offer of Gray for Alex Bregman. If that's what Beane is looking for I might go Russell or Happ and get it done. As much as I love Schwarber I would have moved him to the A's if the deal had included Doolittle but he was moved to the Nats yesterday. Ultimately I think Houston gets Gray but I wouldn't wouldn't discount the Cubs and I would call the Braves a solid dark horse candidate for him. The Brewers would be crazy to trade someone like Lewis Hinson or Corey Ray for him and that's what it will take. It actually sucks for a rebuilding team to compete too early. I think Stearns either stands pat or gets a fringy guy for the rotation a-la Dan Haren for the Cubs in 2015.


You know I'm not a "hot take" sort of guy when it comes to Cubs baseball. (At least I think you believe that I am not) I'm not ready to give up on Schwarber offensively for a life time, just because the guy is hitting .177. That said, even when I had expected a better average from him my thought process has remained consistent that he is a primarily a future DH.
Just a kind retort in regards to Schwarber moving from a one tool player to a two tool player. In order for him to be considered a two tool player, his batting average would need to be greater than the mean, correct? The all time mean for batting average has been between .260 and .275. At what batting average, would you then consider him to have reached two tool player status assuming he doesn't lose his power in the process?
If there is still a market for him as the centerpiece in a Sonny Gray trade, I'd like to see the Cubs do it and expedite Schwarber's track as a career DH.

At this juncture already, I'd already consider the 23 year old Almora Jr. to be a three tool player.(Batting Average, Fielding, and Throwing ability) I'd simply like to see him have the chance to be better established.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:22 am

Cubfan06 wrote:
You know I'm not a "hot take" sort of guy when it comes to Cubs baseball. (At least I think you believe that I am not) I'm not ready to give up on Schwarber offensively for a life time, just because the guy is hitting .177. That said, even when I had expected a better average from him my thought process has remained consistent that he is a primarily a future DH.
Just a kind retort in regards to Schwarber moving from a one tool player to a two tool player. In order for him to be considered a two tool player, his batting average would need to be greater than the mean, correct? The all time mean for batting average has been between .260 and .275. At what batting average, would you then consider him to have reached two tool player status assuming he doesn't lose his power in the process?
If there is still a market for him as the centerpiece in a Sonny Gray trade, I'd like to see the Cubs do it and expedite Schwarber's track as a career DH.

At this juncture already, I'd already consider the 23 year old Almora Jr. to be a three tool player.(Batting Average, Fielding, and Throwing ability) I'd simply like to see him have the chance to be better established.


Whereas I have never thought he had to be a DH. I think he can be just below average in LF and I think he's going to end up a very similar hitter to Rizzo and that's who Theo compares him to when asked. I get that Rizzo was never as bad for a full season as Schwarber is now but after a hot start in 360 PA in 2012 and a crazy 178 wRC+ he came back in 2013 and struggled with a 105 wRC+. Schwarber has a absolutely terrible wRC+ at 82 but if he bounces back and gets over league average of 100 can't you yu compare him to Rizzo? As much as I love Schwarber though and believe in his future I would move him in the right deal, but Gray isn't it. I'd consider Schwarber and Russell for Archer in the offseason and I think that would probably get that done and make both teams better for it. Tampa is just entering a window and their biggest need are hitters with high OBP. Now before you bring up his .297 OBP this year that itself is remarkable given his .177 BA and 28.6% K rate, but he also sports a remarkable 13.4% walk rate. Again I think .290/.390/.600 is his ceiling and with his defensive deficiencies he'd probably top out in the 5-5.5 fWAR range. Again I have no crystal ball but this kid still hasn't played the equivelent of a season in MLB ball. All assets should be considered in possible trade and I'd move him but only for an elite pitcher.
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Zip City » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:26 am

Scouting grades are great and all, but I'm guessing they are wrong far more often than they are right. Schwarber's approach right now is not one of a high average hitter. He pulls almost everything, often right into the extreme shifts that everyone uses against him. Rizzo was similar when he played in San Diego, and it was only when he choked up with two strikes and started going the other way on pitches that he stepped up to his current level. The onus is on Kyle to make the next adjustment, as the "book is out " on him right now and pitchers are making him look foolish
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Re: MLB 2017

Postby Tequila Cowboy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:35 am

Zip City wrote:Scouting grades are great and all, but I'm guessing they are wrong far more often than they are right. Schwarber's approach right now is not one of a high average hitter. He pulls almost everything, often right into the extreme shifts that everyone uses against him. Rizzo was similar when he played in San Diego, and it was only when he choked up with two strikes and started going the other way on pitches that he stepped up to his current level. The onus is on Kyle to make the next adjustment, as the "book is out " on him right now and pitchers are making him look foolish


He's looked much better since the demotion both in AAA and in MLB, even if the numbers haven't caught up yet, and I agree with you that he has to become more balanced but in the minors he was hitting much more to C and going the opposite way to the tune of 50% C & oppo and 47% pull. In contrast Rizzo hits about 57% C and oppo and clearly Kyle needs to get in that 52%-55% range himself. I'm not saying he's doing it, I'm saying after 568 PA I'm not giving up on his ability to.
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