It’s official. Douchebag status has been elevated to R Kelly levels.

Ryan Adams Dangled Success. Women Say They Paid a Price.

Shocker.


That was sarcasm. Adams is a well documented asshole. I love his music, but have never had a high opinion of him as a human. Suspicion confirmed.

Iowan wrote:Shocker.


That was sarcasm. Adams is a well documented asshole. I love his music, but have never had a high opinion of him as a human. Suspicion confirmed.

I’ve never thought Ryan Adams seemed like a fun guy to hang out with, but there’s a difference between “asshole” (difficult, moody, mercurial, etc.) and “guy who shows his dick to a 14-year-old.”

Which is to say, this one still managed to catch me flatfooted.

Mundane Mayhem wrote:

Iowan wrote:Shocker.


That was sarcasm. Adams is a well documented asshole. I love his music, but have never had a high opinion of him as a human. Suspicion confirmed.

I’ve never thought Ryan Adams seemed like a fun guy to hang out with, but there’s a difference between “asshole” (difficult, moody, mercurial, etc.) and “guy who shows his dick to a 14-year-old.”

Which is to say, this one still managed to catch me flatfooted.

He’s always seemed self absorbed, demanding, and delusional.

The exact kind of person who does shit like this. When he made the “1989” record it was a running joke that he was trying to get into T Swift’s pants.

Iowan wrote:

Mundane Mayhem wrote:

Iowan wrote:Shocker.


That was sarcasm. Adams is a well documented asshole. I love his music, but have never had a high opinion of him as a human. Suspicion confirmed.

I’ve never thought Ryan Adams seemed like a fun guy to hang out with, but there’s a difference between “asshole” (difficult, moody, mercurial, etc.) and “guy who shows his dick to a 14-year-old.”

Which is to say, this one still managed to catch me flatfooted.

He’s always seemed self absorbed, demanding, and delusional.

The exact kind of person who does shit like this. When he made the “1989” record it was a running joke that he was trying to get into T Swift’s pants.

Yeah, I don't disagree with the characterization, I guess. But I think creeping on young girls is such a line in the sand that I was still surprised.

There are plenty of people who are self-absorbed, demanding, and delusional. We've probably all known some of them. But I would still hope they would recognize that pursuing a HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN while making R. Kelly jokes about it is beyond the fucking pale.

But ultimately, whether I could see it coming or not is so far beside the point. I'm probably just naive. It just makes me sick and sad and angry.

That's completely reasonable.

The “if you don’t call me in x amount of time I will kill myself” seems 100% in character, alas

Also, pretty bad timing for him to make an R Kelly reference

https://thegrapevine.theroot.com/a-new- ... 1832626408

Yeah, not surprised at him being a sleazebag but underage (14!) is pretty shocking. On one hand, it sucks as I love a lot of his work and used to be a superfan, but on the other FOURTEEN. Wtf. Not at all giving him a pass for his treatment of of-age women, but 14 is a kid. He's done, as he should be. I feel bad for everyone associated with this asshole, especially Jenny Lewis, whose new album was produced by him. Not as bad as I feel for the kid who quit music altogether though (or Phoebe Bridgers, Natalie Prass, Mandy Moore, etc).

A #metoo reckoning for the music business, particularly the indie scene, is both overdue and troubling/scary as shit as a fan. Who's next? Where do you draw the line? Should the classic rockers we admire continue to get a pass? I was just listening to Live at the Star Club earlier this week. SmH.
In 2019 you'd think these motherfuckers would know better, but I also don't understand the sexting/Skype epidemic. It's all fucked, but on the bright side maybe this will help bring a sea change to the whole rnr culture. Maybe. I'm the meantime, check out that boygenius record. Good shit.

Canceling art on the basis of the artist being a shitty person will rob the world of some of its greatest art. Picasso was a monster. What John Lennon did to his first wife is far worse than anything Adams is accused of.

Charlie Daniel’s racist bullshit doesn’t make Trudy kick any less ass, ya know.

Shitty people need to be held accountable for their actions, but if they did something great, society is losing if we strip their work from the public sphere. Cancel culture isn’t good.

Smitty wrote: A #metoo reckoning for the music business, particularly the indie scene, is both overdue and troubling/scary as shit as a fan. Who's next? Where do you draw the line? Should the classic rockers we admire continue to get a pass? I was just listening to Live at the Star Club earlier this week. SmH.

This is a great point. You can't decry Ryan Adams and then go enjoy a Jerry Lee Lewis record. Mick Jagger was a fucking scumbag when it came to women. So was Jimmy Page. There are accusations of rock stars sleeping with underage groupies and have been for decades. I don't see anyone burning their Exile on Main St. or Zeppelin III records over it.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be pissed about Adams (they should, and he deserves all the losses coming his way), but be consistent with the outrage.

Strange days indeed. I saw this piece pop up yesterday about Judd Apatow.
https://penthousemagazine.com/does-judd ... cancelled/

Zip City wrote:

Smitty wrote: A #metoo reckoning for the music business, particularly the indie scene, is both overdue and troubling/scary as shit as a fan. Who's next? Where do you draw the line? Should the classic rockers we admire continue to get a pass? I was just listening to Live at the Star Club earlier this week. SmH.

This is a great point. You can't decry Ryan Adams and then go enjoy a Jerry Lee Lewis record. Mick Jagger was a fucking scumbag when it came to women. So was Jimmy Page. There are accusations of rock stars sleeping with underage groupies and have been for decades. I don't see anyone burning their Exile on Main St. or Zeppelin III records over it.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be pissed about Adams (they should, and he deserves all the losses coming his way), but be consistent with the outrage.

that said, there have been shifts in societal norms that might leaven one's opinion a bit.


but hey, i own a couple of Burzum records that i still enjoy so i'm no paragon of consistency or moral high ground.

Some excellent points and counterpoints here, lots to think about. But the biggest takeaway is that PENTHOUSE MAGAZINE STILL EXISTS?!?! Awesome, I had no idea!

one thing we can all agree on...

TED NUGENT IS A FUCKING DICK WITH NO MERIT



(though "Stranglehold" is still a killer song)

Clams wrote:Some excellent points and counterpoints here, lots to think about. But the biggest takeaway is that PENTHOUSE MAGAZINE STILL EXISTS?!?! Awesome, I had no idea!

Penthouse: the thinking man’s SWANK

Both unsurprising and troubling.
And yes, justifying the great art vs. the shameful artist will be a conceptual conundrum that we'll be wrestling with for years.
I wish men found it easier to be both bold (innovative/creative/cutting-edge/whatever) and not dicks.

I saw on Instagram that Lydia Loveless has called out the Bloodshot Records co-owner boyfriend for sexual harassment and they have responded with an apologetic response from the other co-owner and a somewhat less contrite response from the owner whose partner did the harassing. Neither denies it and they claim to have taken remedial measures. No response from Lydia yet, not that she has to do so. There were some comparisons to the Adams story, although of course each case has it's own facts.

blackwll wrote:I saw on Instagram that Lydia Loveless has called out the Bloodshot Records co-owner boyfriend for sexual harassment and they have responded with an apologetic response from the other co-owner and a somewhat less contrite response from the owner whose partner did the harassing. Neither denies it and they claim to have taken remedial measures. No response from Lydia yet, not that she has to do so. There were some comparisons to the Adams story, although of course each case has it's own facts.

Noticed this too. Have no idea who this guy is, but from the comments fields there seemed to be other women confirming his behavior.

RolanK wrote:

blackwll wrote:I saw on Instagram that Lydia Loveless has called out the Bloodshot Records co-owner boyfriend for sexual harassment and they have responded with an apologetic response from the other co-owner and a somewhat less contrite response from the owner whose partner did the harassing. Neither denies it and they claim to have taken remedial measures. No response from Lydia yet, not that she has to do so. There were some comparisons to the Adams story, although of course each case has it's own facts.

Noticed this too. Have no idea who this guy is, but from the comments fields there seemed to be other women confirming his behavior.

So did his girlfriend. Not to get involved in someone's relationship dynamics, but I thought it was odd she stayed with him after all that. Her release puts him as her current relationship (the use of partner in this context is confusing as she has a different business partner). Cheating is one thing that may or may not be forgiven (not that this happened here as cheating implies that the other person was a willing participant), but harassing your partner's artists presumably when she was at the events (or at least some of them) is a level or two up, IMHO.

I've been in different DRA fan communities for years, and while they have always bordered on hostile (at pretty much all times), they're experiencing a version of chaos that's pretty interesting from a sociological viewpoint. Aside from a minority of ardent and vocal defenders (who will inevitably go down with the ship as they're either incapable of accepting that he actually did what was alleged or they acknowledge what he did and just don't care), the amount of handwringing is surprising to me; I mean lots of diehard, longtime fans completely offloading their vinyl collections (which can be massive as DRA has multitudes of singles, EPs, etc, some of the rare ones can (or could, I guess) fetch ridiculous amounts of $$$ on ebay).
If course the fact that not one associate has come to Ryan's defense while nearly everyone publicly associated with him in any way have come out not just siding with the victims, but most have their own "Ryan" stories (in fact I just read where Courtney Love chimed in). Bob Lefsetz posted a blog that tried to place the DRA situation in a rnr historical context while considering the realities of the touring life but by focusing almost solely on the offenders (often even framing them as victims themselves) failed to really address or consider exactly how toxic the business and lifestyle can be to females, either directly involved or on the fringes of that world. of course I'm just a thirty-something white dude who grew up worshipping the rock gods and I bought wholesale into the myths myself, but I've been around long enough to have seen some shit myself, in fact looking back on the scene I was involved in as a teenager (early '00's emo/screamo scene) I just have fully grasped how fucked up that was (lots of young teen girls who worshipped guys in their twenties). I had a lot of conversations about this with other fans over the weekend and it's a fucking minefield that can be uncomfortable to navigate, but I've got young'uns who I've already instilled a love of rock and roll in and I'd like to give them a little more guidance than I had growing up when it comes to the more harmful tendencies that are romanticized in most of my favorite records. Idk, it's tricky keeping it in between handwaving unacceptable behavior and being self-righteous, but I've spent of good bit of time considering all this the past couple years and although I hate the circumstances that brought it about, I'm glad to see it being addressed in a larger scale.

More:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/02/ryan-ad ... tions.html

while we can all look back on "how things were in the 80s/90s/XXs, times have changed and anyone working in any level of corporate America is well-aware of issues related to power differentials and sexual harassment. Damn, I work at a university in Pennsylvania and after the "Penn State/Sandusky debacle", I had to submit to mandatory fingerprinting and training on sexual harassment and working with minors even though we rarely have anyone under 18 in our classes.

so, I have no sympathy for Ryan Adams or his objectification and marginalization of women... he deserves whatever fall from grace is about to happen, preferably without a parachute.

all that said, the most shocking thing in all of this discussion is that Smitty was a teenage emo.

phungi wrote: all that said, the most shocking thing in all of this discussion is that Smitty was a teenage emo.

Well, emo isn't perfectly accurate, more like "scene kid"

I guess you never saw my "red neck goth" photo that circulated around here years ago

Smitty wrote:
I guess you never saw my "red neck goth" photo that circulated around here years ago

Flea wrote:

Smitty wrote:
I guess you never saw my "red neck goth" photo that circulated around here years ago

It appears to have been scrubbed from existence, which is probably a good thing. It was of 16 year old me with dyed black hair, black nail polish & Marilyn Manson contacts getting a dip of skoal.

Smitty wrote:

Flea wrote:

Smitty wrote:
I guess you never saw my "red neck goth" photo that circulated around here years ago

It appears to have been scrubbed from existence, which is probably a good thing. It was of 16 year old me with dyed black hair, black nail polish & Marilyn Manson contacts getting a dip of skoal.

flavored skoal, i believe.

.

dime in the gutter wrote:flavored skoal, i believe

Berry blend! In my defense I usually dipped Copenhagen snuff or Grizzly Straight instead of the fruity shit, although BB tasted pretty good and had a little bite to it. God that was a disgusting habit.

I'll never be able to completely outrun my good ol' boy* past...



*the kind of good ol' boy that wore fingernail polish, anyway.

Our society needs more good ole boys who wear fingernail polish.

Smitty wrote:

Flea wrote:

Smitty wrote:
I guess you never saw my "red neck goth" photo that circulated around here years ago

It appears to have been scrubbed from existence, which is probably a good thing. It was of 16 year old me with dyed black hair, black nail polish & Marilyn Manson contacts getting a dip of skoal.

if that photo still existed, and if i was an admin, that would be everyone's profile photo.