Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

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Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

I'm sure they'll clear this up over Jann Wenner's dead body. Speaking of which, this year actually has five simple, easy, obvious yeses:

Devo
Roxy Music
Todd Rundgren
MC 5
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
The Zombies

The hard part is which one to leave off.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by worrierking »

Jann Wenner's dead body
You had me excited there for a minute! ;)

I obviously support Zevon for the hall. When I visited a few years ago I saw some cool memorabilia from Zevon, including the original Lyric sheet for "Play it All Night Long."

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by pearlbeer »

John Prine isn't an obvious yes?
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

pearlbeer wrote:John Prine isn't an obvious yes?
He would be if I weren't old and senile. Yes. That's seven slam-dunks as far as I'm concerned. Except no Warren Zevon. So my old joke:

Q: Why is this year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ballot like your haircut?
A: They are both invalid.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Zip City »

I can't get worked up over this.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

Zip City wrote:I can't get worked up over this.
Look at it this way:
worrierking wrote:
Jann Wenner's dead body
You had me excited there for a minute! ;)
Does that help?
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Zip City »

I get that there are a lot of Zevon fans here, I’m just not among them. I don’t dislike him, he has just never been a guy I’ve pursued. My lack of history with his music means I don’t personally get mad about whatever this weird beef is with him and the HoF
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by worrierking »

It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

worrierking wrote:It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.
And I’m guessing he doesn’t give a shit one way or the other
Does anyone need yet another politician, caught with his pants down and money sticking in his hole?

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Flea »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
worrierking wrote:It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.
And I’m guessing he doesn’t give a shit one way or the other
I imagine he would not care even if he were among us. But the slight is petty and childish on Wenner's part. I understand they had issues - but should not disqualify Zevon from accolades.
Now it's dark.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

I doubt Warren would even acknowledge, much less want to be included in, any HOF that has Journey and is likely about to have Def Leppard
Does anyone need yet another politician, caught with his pants down and money sticking in his hole?

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by pearlbeer »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:I doubt Warren would even acknowledge, much less want to be included in, any HOF that has Journey and is likely about to have Def Leppard
To be fair, the world of sugar pouring would be be much poorer without Def Leppard.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by tinnitus photography »

John A Arkansawyer wrote:I'm sure they'll clear this up over Jann Wenner's dead body. Speaking of which, this year actually has five simple, easy, obvious yeses:

Devo
Roxy Music
Todd Rundgren
MC 5
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
The Zombies

The hard part is which one to leave off.
you misspelled Kraftwerk
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by tinnitus photography »

worrierking wrote:It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.
i would argue that Blue Oyster Cult is the most obvious omission.
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

tinnitus photography wrote:
worrierking wrote:It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.
i would argue that Blue Oyster Cult is the most obvious omission.
That is most egregious
Does anyone need yet another politician, caught with his pants down and money sticking in his hole?

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Bill in CT »

tinnitus photography wrote:
worrierking wrote:It's mostly a joke by now. It's fun to poke at Jann Wenner. I don't really care if Zevon gets in all that much. He probably gets as much publicity out of being the most obvious omission each year than he would if he actually got in.
i would argue that Blue Oyster Cult is the most obvious omission.
For me it’s Blue Oyster Cult and Can. I can’t really choose between them.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Zip City »

If Radiohead doesn't got in first ballot they might as well shut the place down
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Cubfan06 »

Zip City wrote:If Radiohead doesn't got in first ballot they might as well shut the place down
Agreed and they didn't . Radiohead was on the ballot last year and got snubbed in lieu of Bon Jovi, Nina Simone, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Dire Straits, and The Moody Blues. An absolute travesty.

Dire Straits and The Moody Blues, okay. I'll give them that one. The Cars, even..em eh. But Bon Jovi and Nina Simone? I love the shit out of Nina Simone too. I love Warren Zevon as well and he deserved to get in long ago. His catalog is fantastic, but it pales in comparison to Radiohead's...as does his impact on the music of his time.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Cubfan06 »

tinnitus photography wrote:
John A Arkansawyer wrote:I'm sure they'll clear this up over Jann Wenner's dead body. Speaking of which, this year actually has five simple, easy, obvious yeses:

Devo
Roxy Music
Todd Rundgren
MC 5
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
The Zombies

The hard part is which one to leave off.
you misspelled Kraftwerk
No doubt.

Couldn't one make the argument that Devo (although highly underappreciated) is derivative of Kraftwerk?

Kraftwerk influenced so many artists, including Joy Division, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, EDM artists (Daft Punk, Chemical Brothers, the new generation) and Dr Dre (Thus indirectly the whole gangster rap genre)

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Iowan »

Cubfan06 wrote:
Zip City wrote:If Radiohead doesn't got in first ballot they might as well shut the place down
Agreed and they didn't . Radiohead was on the ballot last year and got snubbed in lieu of Bon Jovi, Nina Simone, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Dire Straits, and The Moody Blues. An absolute travesty.

Dire Straits and The Moody Blues, okay. I'll give them that one. The Cars, even..em eh. But Bon Jovi and Nina Simone? I love the shit out of Nina Simone too. I love Warren Zevon as well and he deserved to get in long ago. His catalog is fantastic, but it pales in comparison to Radiohead's...as does his impact on the music of his time.
No.

I would agree with the statement after that. Radiohead has gotten a lot of mileage out of 2 brilliant albums.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Cubfan06 »

Iowan wrote:
Cubfan06 wrote:
Zip City wrote:If Radiohead doesn't got in first ballot they might as well shut the place down
Agreed and they didn't . Radiohead was on the ballot last year and got snubbed in lieu of Bon Jovi, Nina Simone, Sister Rosetta Thorpe, The Cars, Dire Straits, and The Moody Blues. An absolute travesty.

Dire Straits and The Moody Blues, okay. I'll give them that one. The Cars, even..em eh. But Bon Jovi and Nina Simone? I love the shit out of Nina Simone too. I love Warren Zevon as well and he deserved to get in long ago. His catalog is fantastic, but it pales in comparison to Radiohead's...as does his impact on the music of his time.
No.

I would agree with the statement after that. Radiohead has gotten a lot of mileage out of 2 brilliant albums.
Oh bullocks.
The Bends, OK Computer, Kid A, and In Rainbows are all perfect albums. Hail To The Thief (my favorite RH album) and Moon Shaped Pool are really strong. King of Limbs took risks intending to be better live than in studio and succeeded in that regard.
I don't really return to Pablo Honey, although it yielded a mega-hit song that everyone here knows every word to.

They have sold out arenas and stadiums for close to two decades, while having the most awkward and ugly front man in rock history (even uglier than Ric Ocasek). Rejecting magazine covers. Very little mainstream radio play. Meanwhile experiencing this success while continue to push their musical limits and turning the wheel in their sound from album to album. Every Radiohead album sounds drastically different than its predecessor with the only constant being Thom Yorke's voice.
Think about music in 1997 when OK Computer was released and think about how the influence of that album carried all of the way into the early aughts.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Iowan »

Cubfan06 wrote:
Oh bullocks.
The Bends, OK Computer, Kid A, and In Rainbows are all perfect albums. Hail To The Thief (my favorite RH album) and Moon Shaped Pool are really strong. King of Limbs took risks intending to be better live than in studio and succeeded in that regard.
I don't really return to Pablo Honey, although it yielded a mega-hit song that everyone here knows every word to.

They have sold out arenas and stadiums for close to two decades, while having the most awkward and ugly front man in rock history (even uglier than Ric Ocasek). Rejecting magazine covers. Very little mainstream radio play. Meanwhile experiencing this success while continue to push their musical limits and turning the wheel in their sound from album to album. Every Radiohead album sounds drastically different than its predecessor with the only constant being Thom Yorke's voice.
Think about music in 1997 when OK Computer was released and think about how the influence of that album carried all of the way into the early aughts.
I agree that they were more influential and important. I don't agree that Zevon's catalog pales in comparison. From a songwriting standpoint, Thom Yorke is not on Warren Zevon's level, IMO.

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Zip City »

This always comes back around to what you think the criteria for induction should be. I see a lot of bands/artists mentioned on this board (and others) who, while often brilliant in what they do, don't check enough boxes for me (in terms of influence, success, longevity, etc.)

It's hard to argue against Radiohead when it comes to "box checking". Zevon checks a lot of boxes as well. It starts getting dicey when it comes to the Devos and Roxy Musics of the world
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Zip City »

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by tinnitus photography »

Zip City wrote:This always comes back around to what you think the criteria for induction should be. I see a lot of bands/artists mentioned on this board (and others) who, while often brilliant in what they do, don't check enough boxes for me (in terms of influence, success, longevity, etc.)

It's hard to argue against Radiohead when it comes to "box checking". Zevon checks a lot of boxes as well. It starts getting dicey when it comes to the Devos and Roxy Musics of the world
what boxes don't get ticked by Devo and Roxy Music?

i guess popularity might be the one, but they both definitely got widespread radio play for at least a few songs.
Cubfan06 wrote:Couldn't one make the argument that Devo (although highly underappreciated) is derivative of Kraftwerk?
at their heart they are electronic-based musicians, but i don't see a lot of parallels between them, to be honest.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zevon belongs because he had just enough commercial success to justify it and he's probably top ten, certainly top twenty, among the greatest songwriters of the Rock era. Plus like Lou Reed and some others he was one of those artists who inspired other songwriters and bands to do what they do. His influence is undeniable. Radiohead, on the other hand, is a band I respect, I get the commercial aspect of their work and would probably concede they belong but try as I man, and I have dozens of times, I don't enjoy them at all. Part of that is me, some of the musical reaches that people consider brilliant don't do anything for me who pretty much likes simplicity in songs and melody. That's purely subjective and I get it and like I said I'm sure they belong, but Warren Zevon certainly belongs and it is a travesty he's not in.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by tinnitus photography »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Zevon belongs because he had just enough commercial success to justify it and he's probably top ten, certainly top twenty, among the greatest songwriters of the Rock era. Plus like Lou Reed and some others he was one of those artists who inspired other songwriters and bands to do what they do. His influence is undeniable. Radiohead, on the other hand, is a band I respect, I get the commercial aspect of their work and would probably concede they belong but try as I man, and I have dozens of times, I don't enjoy them at all. Part of that is me, some of the musical reaches that people consider brilliant don't do anything for me who pretty much likes simplicity in songs and melody. That's purely subjective and I get it and like I said I'm sure they belong, but Warren Zevon certainly belongs and it is a travesty he's not in.
ok, this is not meant to denigrate your opinion, TC, but top 10? even 20? I love some of Zevon's songs, and maybe i am misinterpreting the "Rock era" boundaries, but i can't see this at all.

without putting too much thought into it... top 20?

Dylan
Neil
Gilmour/Waters
Lindsay Buckingham
Robyn Hitchcock
John Cale
Springsteen
Iggy Pop
Bowie
Joe Strummer
Donald Roeser (yes, i realize this is an unpopular opinion)
Bryan Ferry
Donald Fagen
John Fahey
Jagger/Richards
Ray Davies
Nick Drake
Captain Beefheart
Nick Cave
Johnny Marr
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Zevon belongs because he had just enough commercial success to justify it and he's probably top ten, certainly top twenty, among the greatest songwriters of the Rock era. Plus like Lou Reed and some others he was one of those artists who inspired other songwriters and bands to do what they do. His influence is undeniable. Radiohead, on the other hand, is a band I respect, I get the commercial aspect of their work and would probably concede they belong but try as I man, and I have dozens of times, I don't enjoy them at all. Part of that is me, some of the musical reaches that people consider brilliant don't do anything for me who pretty much likes simplicity in songs and melody. That's purely subjective and I get it and like I said I'm sure they belong, but Warren Zevon certainly belongs and it is a travesty he's not in.
ok, this is not meant to denigrate your opinion, TC, but top 10? even 20? I love some of Zevon's songs, and maybe i am misinterpreting the "Rock era" boundaries, but i can't see this at all.

without putting too much thought into it... top 20?

Dylan
Neil
Gilmour/Waters
Lindsay Buckingham
Robyn Hitchcock
John Cale
Springsteen
Iggy Pop
Bowie
Joe Strummer
Donald Roeser (yes, i realize this is an unpopular opinion)
Bryan Ferry
Donald Fagen
John Fahey
Jagger/Richards
Ray Davies
Nick Drake
Captain Beefheart
Nick Cave
Johnny Marr
Very few of those musicians are people I value for their songwriting. Maybe five. Whereas a list without Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, and Warren Zevon is incomprehensible to me. Which is what makes horse races.
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Re: Yet Another Flawed R&RHoF Ballot Omits Warren Zevon

Post by tinnitus photography »

i did realize my list was filled with old white dudes... not a Joni fan, however. Cohen was a obv oversight.
[quote="linkous"]There are three genres of music. Good music, bad music, and music made by The Fall.[/quote]

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