No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

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Tequila Cowboy
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No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

I could have posted this in the Isbell forum but I think it's a more general discussion so I'm posting here. Kudzu brought this up on FB and posted this picture from a recent Isbell show:

Image

Surprisingly to me the response has overwhelming positive to the restrictions. I know Jason is not the only artist to do this so I don't want to pick on him alone, but man this shit pisses me off and I can't understand how people are not only OK with this but celebrate it.

I've said this before but in the early days of smartphones I probably took a few too many pictures. I eased off pretty quickly and then one time about seven years ago Mavis Staples gave me the stink eye when taking a picture from the rail and well, when Miss Mavis gives you the stink eye you re-evaluate. I never took videos or used a flash but I probably took a few too many so since then my personal policy has been to take a few pictures at the beginning of the show and put the phone away only taking a few more in the case of a special guest or something highly unusual. I think it's the right thing to do so I do it. I think that an expectation of a fan at a show is to be an adult. Taking flash pictures, taking videos of whole songs and generally being annoying to people around you is being an asshole, not an adult. That said how is banning phones OK? It's like a zero tolerance policy for concert goers and zero tolerance policies in anything pretty much suck. You have a few assholes so the responsible adults are punished along with the jerks? I'd be OK with signs that say "we prefer you don't use your phone but if you do be respectful to the artist and your fellow concertgoers". To me that sets a tone and people know the artist wishes going in but aren't being punished like a preschooler. Am I wrong here? Has it gotten so out of hand that this is where we've gotten?
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by pearlbeer »

I like the policy. And I don't read it as zero-tolerance. The request is 'refrain', not 'under no circumstances'. I think more than anything, it gives license to the audience to call out the people acting like assholes with their phones. I don't know, but would doubt that Isbell is opposed to taping or videos being posted, etc. This isn't about copyright, this is about collective enjoyment. You know...acting like adults. There are not signs that say 'please refrain from getting too drunk, or fighting or requesting Outfit for the 40th time', but those norms have been drilled into the herd for a long time. (Yet, it is a rare show where you don't see each of those types of assholes too) Unfortunately, we need to settle on an acceptable norm for phone use during a show (and elsewhere).

So, I'm fine with this, at least until people learn to be respectful with their phones. I've seen too many shows through the eyes of someone else's phone standing in front of me. (including DBT shows...even including Homecoming). I mean, at least for me, other than a few pictures now and then...does anyone really revisit all of the content on their phone from a show (particularly video)? Until people learn to be respectful with their phones at shows, I support this policy. Just like TC, I'm certainly guilty of abusing my phone at a show or two in the past. But, generally I try to keep it in my pocket (except when tracking setlists ;) )

Bonnie Raitt has a STRICT policy for cell phones. I saw her shut down a show at Austin City Limits in the middle of a song to tell people to put their damn phones away and enjoy. It was a little bit confrontational with the audience, but by the end of the show, I think everyone had seen her point.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Cubfan06 »

I'm good with it. Sure, I have taken pictures with the wife or friends in the crowd, but when the music starts I'm about only three things. Dancing, drinking, and enjoying the music. That's going to a show! As a society we are too plugged in to the world. Even currently right now as I am typing.

When Prince played a last minute unannounced midnight show at City Winery Chicago a few years ago, he had a phone check at the door. This isn't nearly that. But I thought it was a pretty cool move by the Purple One....as you would expect.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

I'm good with it. People have lost the benefit of the doubt. At the Roger Waters show I saw two weeks ago there were more aloft phones than I've ever seen. And it was that way from start to finish
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Maybe y'all have seen more problems than I have. I can only think of two times where I thought someone was disruptive with their phone. One was here in Jackson for Todd Snider where he was doing an intimate show, people wouldn't shut up and a woman at a table dead center just back from the stage was watching videos on her phone with the sound on. Todd stomped off. The second was at a DBT show in Birmingham that was seated and the people in front of us had their phones in the air all night, sitting and standing both, until we finally said something. Those are the only two that come to mind but maybe there have been more that didn't stick with me as much but I see 25-40 shows a year and I just don't see that this is a huge issue, but maybe I'm wrong. Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Will »

I went to see Dave Chappelle a couple of weeks ago and everyone who had a phone had to lock it in a soft case as you entered the venue. You kept it with you, and they unlocked them for you on the way out. I was completely cool with it. He got so make sure his performance was captured only as he intended, and nobody was holding up a camera and screwing my view.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Zip City »

Only thing I use my phone for is keeping set lists
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Flea »

No problems whatsoever with the policy. Fuck, I usually don't even take my phone to the show. More for fear of losing it in a medicated fog.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by ramonz »

Will wrote:I went to see Dave Chappelle a couple of weeks ago and everyone who had a phone had to lock it in a soft case as you entered the venue. You kept it with you, and they unlocked them for you on the way out. I was completely cool with it. He got so make sure his performance was captured only as he intended, and nobody was holding up a camera and screwing my view.
It's Yondr (http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechcon ... t-come-out) and I love it.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by chuckrh »

I can see where artists might not be happy about the youtube posting of videos but I personally enjoy watching them. Given the state of concert ticket prices & how most of the tickets get grabbed by scalpers not everyone can afford to go. I'm pretty new to the Android thing & do enjoy taking some still pictures. When I saw Midnight Oil recently, I was lucky enough to get 1st row & was taking a few stills. I got told by the theater staff that it wasn't allowed. I got a few good shots before that but would've liked more. & toward the end, all hell broke loose & was able to take some more pics although was getting pushed, etc. The other recent experience was at the Flaming Lips. Different theater but run by the same people. They accused me of filming, which I wasn't. I was in the balcony & just was trying to get some shots of the cool visual effects. I did get them back. I recorded the guitar solo on "Feeling Yourself Disintegrate". The vid is crap but the sound is good!

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by dogstar »

ramonz wrote:
Will wrote:I went to see Dave Chappelle a couple of weeks ago and everyone who had a phone had to lock it in a soft case as you entered the venue. You kept it with you, and they unlocked them for you on the way out. I was completely cool with it. He got so make sure his performance was captured only as he intended, and nobody was holding up a camera and screwing my view.
It's Yondr (http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechcon ... t-come-out) and I love it.
For comedians I think the main problem is that they tell the same jokes each night so they don't really want people taking videos and spoiling the show for other people - I've heard lots of comedians in the UK talk about this when interviewed.

The strictest policy for no-phones was King Crimson's. The stewards were instructed to eject anyone seen using their phones and a couple of people were escorted out of the show I was at, the policy was explained clearly over the PA system before the show started so I guess there can be no complaints.

I've actually got to the stage where I don't feel the need to document the shows I go to anymore. Sometimes I do but most of the time I don't bother. Partly to do with the shitty quality of the photos from my phone and partly to do with the fact that I always feel like I've missed something when I'm concentrating on taking photos.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by tinnitus photography »

Tool's restrictions are right up there with Crimson's.

I've got some thoughts on this that I'll post when I get to a computer.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Rocky »

The many being punished for the bad behavior of the few has been going on for a LONG time.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Rocky wrote:The many being punished for the bad behavior of the few has been going on for a LONG time.
That's true but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Zip City »

I saw Aziz Ansari a few years ago, and he actually made the cell phone thing into a bit. He said "before I start the show, everyone take your phones out. I'll do some poses like I'm telling jokes, and you all take pictures. Then everyone can put their phones away and I'll do the show."
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Cubfan06 »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Rocky wrote:The many being punished for the bad behavior of the few has been going on for a LONG time.
That's true but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
I feel that its at the artist's discretion to help create an environment in their performance that they see fit. They will either reap the benefits of that choice or risk losing a portion of their audience in the process. As DBT has made abundantly clear with their unwavering political message, it's your choice to attend the show given the performance conditions or not.

I don't see it as a zero tolerance policy either. You can go into the lobby to use your phone to communicate with the outside world if you need to.

In relation to Jason and the 400 Unit performances, I'll say hallelujah. Their were too many douche bags trying to capture the perfect angle with one hand on their phones and the other down their pants, with tears in their eyes during "Cover Me Up" the last time I saw him. With both hands occupied, how can you hold a cocktail?

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by tinnitus photography »

Well, some of them have the cock part sussed

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by beantownbubba »

There are two different concerns here: One is the concert experience for everyone including the band, the non phone users in the audience and the phone users in the audience. The other is the copyright related issues of owning and controlling the artistic product.

Didn't Jason enforce a no taping policy from fairly early on in his solo career? Hasn't he been consistent about that? We used to talk about this issue a lot and I think we came to a general consensus that the artist should have the right to decide on his/her/its policy and the audience should cooperate w/ whatever that policy is.

Personally, I never have and still don't take pics or videos at shows. I occasionally try to keep a set list. If I use my phone at all it tends to be to find someone else in the audience. I value the concert experience greatly so I think helping to preserve the spontaneous feel and the positive energy between artist and audience (and within the audience as well) to say nothing of preserving site lines for the audience and the musicians not having to look into a sea of phones and sometimes flashes (lights, not tits) far outweighs the benefits of the pics and videos that are taken. While I might unfairly weigh the 2 sides because I don't value the pic/video part, it seems to me that allowing pics at one point in the show (presumably the first song or so, but no reason it couldn't be any particular point) would address everyone's interests reasonably well. As for non-attendees not getting to see mediocre to poor quality videos on youtube or their email, I just don't see that as a concern. And besides,it seems like the great majority of artists put a fair amount of official usually good quality stuff on the internet or make official vids available for purchase pretty quickly after shows.

The one exception I can understand a little more is when there's a surprise guest artist of particular interest (like, say, a former band member or a legend/influence in the band's genre). But even then it seems to me that enjoying the moment is more important than capturing it.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

I see this as an extension of how Welcome To 1979 came without a download card. Obviously, it can easily be ripped to digital but it strikes me as a desire on Jason's part for his fans to listen to it on a turntable. I also didn't interpret his cellphone policy as any hard and fast rule but rather a suggestion. I take a few photos at shows and enjoy doing so but I am not one of the ones that holds my phone aloft for the duration of the concert. From a performer's point of view, when they look out at their audience and see a sea of cellphones I would imagine they wonder how many they're actually engaging with as so many seem glued to their devices. I believe it's the ones that are obnoxious about their cellphone use that have led Alicia Keys and others to have fans have their cellphones locked up when they enter the venue. They maintain access to their phones but have to notify a staff member to have it unlocked. Then, they're allowed to go outside to use it. The downside to this is not being able to call out immediately in the event or an emergency or being able to be reached in case of one. If a parent is at a concert (or other event), they need to have a direct line with a babysitter (or caretaker) should an emergency arise. So, I'm not so sure that I agree with going to this extreme but I do see how the decision to do so by some artists has come to be.

This past summer, I entered a concert by Dead Tongues (Ryan Gustafson) and Molly Sarlé (Mountain Man) at Nightlight in Chapel Hill. It was a seated show with minimal lighting. There was also a somber mood in the air due to a mass shooting that had recently occurred overseas. There was not a sign anywhere that photography or filming wasn't allowed, nor were there any announcements from the stage to that effect. That said, it seemed to go without saying that folks simply weren't in a picture taking mood. I discreetly took a couple photos of Molly off to the side of the stage. Same for Ryan during his set but made it a point not to fire off any more than that as I believe it would have been in poor taste. A few other folks may have snapped a shot or two but it was nothing like it usually is at most live shows these days. I believe the reasoning being that the mood dictated that what has become the norm for concert behavior these days would have been out of place in this particular setting. Personally, I am glad I took a few photos because this was among the most memorable concerts I attended that year. Sadly, part of the reason for that was the mass killings that have become all too common worldwide in this era. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a time and place for everything and if you're going to take photos (or shoot video) at least do so with respect to the performers onstage and to your fellow concert goers.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Zip City »

Frankly, I'm almost more annoyed at people who are using their phones as a distraction from the concert rather than as a way of documenting it. I went to a Lucius concert last summer where people were playing FUCKING POKEMON GO DURING THE SHOW.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by tinnitus photography »

there have been a few artists who have come out definitively on the 'no cameras at any time' policy during shows.... King Crimson and Tool are pretty draconian about it; I shot Tool in 2012 (we got a single song, Maynard hid in darkness at the side of the drum kit), and w/ pro gear it was nearly impossible to get a decent shot. As i brought my gear to my car so i could drop it and then head back into the show, I noticed a guy on the sidewalk, talking loudly to his friend via his cell phone, who seemed pretty upset. the reason? he took a photo w/ his phone (yeah.... good luck w/ that) and was kicked out of the show. i didn't feel sorry for him. the rules were stated pretty clearly and continuously before the show. i am not sure what he thought his cell phone image was gonna look like, but i hope he's got it framed on his wall as a memento.

Neko Case is another one; she's had some pretty publicized spats w/ people flouting the rules (this one sounds like it was video she objected to). this policy now carries over to New Pornographers shows as well. Tweedy has loosened his policy a bit, which at one point was pretty strict. Peter Frampton got a second more fame recently by tossing someone's phone. can you imagine how fucking stupid THIS GUY has to be? He's got one of the most electric performers in rock history inches away and he can't even turn to watch it. Boris, Jeff Mangum, Diamanda Galas are just a few off the top of my head that asks for no photography, even credentialed members of the media (Boris has since moved on, though they have asked for pre-approval of images prior to publishing).


of course, these are extreme examples, but we've all seen show after show where a noticeable segment of the audience is using their phone for a significant period of time. if it's fucking annoying to people next and behind them, can you imagine how the people on stage feel? and there's always the looming spectre that potentially some embarrassing or otherwise moment the artist would rather not share suddenly hits youtube or instagram. i wouldn't want to perform w/ expectation that anything i say or do can be widely disseminated without my approval or control.


TC, i have no doubts that you are not anywhere near the examples i've posted above, but it's also pretty clear that a group of people can't consistently police themselves, and this is where we landed (at least for some artists). i am not saying that i've never not enjoyed a youtube clip that someone's put up online, but the bottom line is that it's the artist's call. facebook live is another annoyance of 21st century digital life, and i ignore those notifications across the board.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by RolanK »

A lot of artists seem to adjust to the times we live in and use whatever people post on social media from their shows to create "buzz" around their shows/tours. DBT as well. I captured this moment "Drumriser gives birth to Paul Janeway" when St. Paul & the Broken Bones played here some months ago, which they pretty promptly re-posted on their instagram.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

RolanK wrote:A lot of artists seem to adjust to the times we live in and use whatever people post on social media from their shows to create "buzz" around their shows/tours. DBT as well. I captured this moment "Drumriser gives birth to Paul Janeway" when St. Paul & the Broken Bones played here some months ago, which they pretty promptly re-posted on their instagram.
I really think it comes down to a difference in philosophy for a lot of these bands. Some bands consider their fans an integral part of the experience and some consider them only as customers. In the latter case is it partly the fans fault? Have some bad apples ruined it for the rest? Sure, I can absolutely see that. I think for DBT, St. Paul and others that consider the fans as part of the greater sum of the parts that it pays off for them in ticket sales, merch sales and frankly loyalty. I'm sure that wouldn't work for every fanbase though and I do get it. The funny thing, and this is a side tangent I know, Isbell's fans in particular shush people who sing along. A couple of years ago we saw him at the Jimmie Rodgers festival and some fans were being militant about it. I can see these type of people applauding no cell phone rules and then secretly taking a picture or two somehow justifying but saying they aren't the problem.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

Among the most adverse reactions I've seen to this are fans who feel that they have some sort of say in the content of a show or artist policies (like no cellphones or recording devices) because they support the band through buying merch, tickets, records, etc.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by whatwouldcooleydo? »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by bovine knievel »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
don't really understand this one... never have. To me it is like wearing a team jersey to the game.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by RolanK »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
Not allowed if purchased the same night, but quite OK if from a previous tour. imo
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Cubfan06 »

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
:lol: Now that's a true debate! I've never really understood the merits of that "unwritten rule". If I'm going to a Cubs game there is no doubt that I'll be sifting through my Ryno, Dawson, Santo, or Rizzo jersey to wear. I'm not afraid to go against the grain on this one. And how is the mock brand, lot t-shirt judged? If I decide to walk into Mother Wrigley tomorrow night for Dead and Company and rock my Morning Dew (Mountain Dew) t-shirt, is that taboo? :lol:

I'm not seriously starting this debate. Just say that I rage against this logic, kind Sir.

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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Zip City »

bovine knievel wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
don't really understand this one... never have. To me it is like wearing a team jersey to the game.
It's a line from the criminally underrated 90's comedy "PCU"

But I think there is some truth to it. If we're at a DBT concert, I know you like DBT. If you show up in a Reverend Horton Heat shirt, though, that's a conversation starter.
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Re: No Cell Phone Policies At Shows

Post by Cubfan06 »

bovine knievel wrote:
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Talking at shows has always seemed like a way bigger issue than phones to me.
Still the heavyweight champ of concert issues, closely followed by people who wear the shirt of the band they are seeing that night ;)
don't really understand this one... never have. To me it is like wearing a team jersey to the game.
Great minds (or absent ones) think alike.

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