Zip City wrote:

Clams wrote: Because he's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) name on the petition and he's been spearheading the campaign against shows in Israel for years.

I agree that he's a figurehead, but it appears to be a somewhat well-supported movement

https://bdsmovement.net/what-is-bds

I don't know enough about the politics of the region to have an opinion either way, and I'm not culturally tied to the area

For the record, I have nothing against Waters for his opinions or for speaking out on the Israel/Palestine issue - even though I disagree with him 100%. Reasonable minds can differ and he (obviously) has the right to his viewpoint and the right to speak out.

is the issue around whether or not cultural boycotts should be done? like the ban about playing in South Africa during the apartheid era, or Pearl Jam and Bruce cancelling NC shows because of the bathroom issue?

tinnitus photography wrote:is the issue around whether or not cultural boycotts should be done? like the ban about playing in South Africa during the apartheid era, or Pearl Jam and Bruce cancelling NC shows because of the bathroom issue?

No, those types of cultural boycotts as a means of protest are fine with me. I have no problem with anyone who chooses to boycott as a way of showing approval/disapproval of someone or something. And Waters choosing to use a boycott of rock shows seems logical enough given that he's a rock star.

My issue with Waters goes more to the heart of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and Waters' vocal support of the BDS movement which in my view makes him a supporter of a terrorist government against Israel. Some have gone as far as to label him antisemitic, though he has denied this. Not gonna go deeper into it here (we have a political thread for that stuff and anyone can easily google the issue anyway). But Waters' leadership role in the boycott and his anti-Israeli rhetoric and vocal support of the Palestinian side of the conflict has turned me off to him as an artist, which is my right as a listener. (Kind of like a conservative DBT fan who chooses not to listen to American Band or support the truckers anymore).

Clams wrote:

tinnitus photography wrote:is the issue around whether or not cultural boycotts should be done? like the ban about playing in South Africa during the apartheid era, or Pearl Jam and Bruce cancelling NC shows because of the bathroom issue?

No, those types of cultural boycotts as a means of protest are fine with me. I have no problem with anyone who chooses to boycott as a way of showing approval/disapproval of someone or something. And Waters choosing to use a boycott of rock shows seems logical enough given that he's a rock star.

My issue with Waters goes more to the heart of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and Waters' vocal support of the BDS movement which in my view makes him a supporter of a terrorist government against Israel. Some have gone as far as to label him antisemitic, though he has denied this. Not gonna go deeper into it here (we have a political thread for that stuff and anyone can easily google the issue anyway). But Waters' leadership role in the boycott and his anti-Israeli rhetoric and vocal support of the Palestinian side of the conflict has turned me off to him as an artist, which is my right as a listener. (Kind of like a conservative DBT fan who chooses not to listen to American Band or support the truckers anymore).

I've tried to wrap my head around the entire Israel/Palestine conflict and it makes my brain hurt. So many wars, so much conflict, it's hard to know who the good guys are

Zip City wrote: I've tried to wrap my head around the entire Israel/Palestine conflict and it makes my brain hurt. So many wars, so much conflict, it's hard to know who the good guys are

Agreed. So complicated.

Clams wrote:

Zip City wrote: I've tried to wrap my head around the entire Israel/Palestine conflict and it makes my brain hurt. So many wars, so much conflict, it's hard to know who the good guys are

Agreed. So complicated.

I find it pretty easy. There aren't any good guys.

There are a lot of people who want somewhere to live and with some claim on the same place and no one willing to compromise. Those are the not-bad guys. Then you have the bad guys, who are egging them all on from each side for their own purposes without much, if any, regard for anyone else's well-being. Without the genuine bad guys, the not-bad guys might be able to be good guys. But they won't, and so they aren't.

John A Arkansawyer wrote:

Clams wrote:

Zip City wrote: I've tried to wrap my head around the entire Israel/Palestine conflict and it makes my brain hurt. So many wars, so much conflict, it's hard to know who the good guys are

Agreed. So complicated.

I find it pretty easy. There aren't any good guys.

There are a lot of people who want somewhere to live and with some claim on the same place and no one willing to compromise. Those are the not-bad guys. Then you have the bad guys, who are egging them all on from each side for their own purposes without much, if any, regard for anyone else's well-being. Without the genuine bad guys, the not-bad guys might be able to be good guys. But they won't, and so they aren't.

& us lucky Americans get to foot the bill for Israel.

chuckrh wrote: & us lucky Americans get to foot the bill for Israel.

Israel is the only true democracy and the United States' only true ally in the entire fucked up region that is the Middle East. And it is surrounded by nations and terrorist groups that would like nothing more than to see it be wiped off the map. I think it"s worthy of our financial support. And if you feel otherwise, that's cool, we can agree to disagree.

I'm not gonna say any more on the subject. (I think I've said enough already). Y'all can go back to your Roger Waters music thread.

I would feel better about our alliance with Israel if I believed it was predicated on anything but evangelical white men picking the one non-brown country in the region to throw their money at

Zip City wrote:I would feel better about our alliance with Israel if I believed it was predicated on anything but evangelical white men picking the one non-brown country in the region to throw their money at

Terrorism is all in the perspective. The British used to consider the Zionists terrorists. I'm not condoning anyone using those methods but there are definitely 2 sides of the story.

Saw a video on YouTube from the Meadowlands I think it was, where he is clearly lip syncing, poorly at that. Lame.

Fail;

https://youtu.be/ag4qB3vs-jA?t=36s

RMD wrote:Fail;

https://youtu.be/ag4qB3vs-jA?t=36s

I agree. I have been a huge fan if Waters/Gilmour/Floyd, since I was a kid, having seen one iteration or another of the pieces 6 times I think. And of course bought every PF and solo album and wore them out. I've always been turned off by Roger's inability to do anything other than be the supreme alpha dog, even as it (obviously, imo) impacted the music. That said, Dave and Nick and Rick weren't nearly as motivated or prolific as Roger up to '83, and I'm sure that Roger felt they were lazy sacks content to live off his hard work.

Regarding Roger live, honestly, if you don't think he's been singing to vocal tracks for years, you've been living under a rock. His voice has been shot for many years. Hear him at Live8 in 2005 sing on Wish You Were Here? He's croaking out the verses. And that AMAZING Pigs (Three Different Ones) from Mexico City a few months ago - no wonder it sounded so good! Speaking of Live8, you can find somewhat tense vids/sound of the rehearsal, and Roger admitted afterwards that he wouldn't be able to suppress his supremacy beyond that one event (if they were to have toured).

His new album is OK. I hated Amused to Death when I first heard it, picked it back up a couple years later, and it became one of my all-time favorite albums. Maybe this one will grow on me. But I will say that as much as I love (most of) Roger's work, he certainly can be condescending and holier-than-thou. He makes himself out to be this truth-speaker, but singing to vocal tracks (or at least not admitting to it) is lame. Own up son.

i would be surprised if he was lip synching during his Newport Folk Fest show a few years ago.

tinnitus photography wrote:i would be surprised if he was lip synching during his Newport Folk Fest show a few years ago.

I'm sure you're right - you were there. I think he's able to sing the acoustic stuff OK, but the big, iconic production numbers seems to be where his voice is "augmented" by the vocal track. Quick search on the internets turns up this: https://clclt.com/vibes/archives/2012/0 ... na-7102012

The Newport Fest vs. his stage show is an apples/oranges comparison anyways. Newport is more intimate and stripped down, while the stage show is a timed-to-the-second multimedia extravaganza. It's all click tracked and probably has prerecorded instrument tracks as well as vocal tracks

RMD wrote:Saw a video on YouTube from the Meadowlands I think it was, where he is clearly lip syncing, poorly at that. Lame.

I read somewhere that he did it at Meadowlands as it was still a rehearsal show and he was saving his voice. I can also easily believe that the saving the voice claim is just spin

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:

RMD wrote:Saw a video on YouTube from the Meadowlands I think it was, where he is clearly lip syncing, poorly at that. Lame.

I read somewhere that he did it at Meadowlands as it was still a rehearsal show and he was saving his voice. I can also easily believe that the saving the voice claim is just spin

I listened to a tape of St Louis & it sounds live to me. He has a whole bunch of people singing backup, including the wonderful Lucius. He's going to extend the tour to Europe & says this is the last go round. He's getting up there but still spry. The pics of the production are spectacular. Its supposed to be bigger than the Wall! I'm looking forward to the show. The new cd is pretty wonderful, too. It takes a few listens to really sink in. & the songs that he is doing live from the new record sound reall good.

John A Arkansawyer wrote:

OkieinTexas wrote:

Clams wrote:Waters' political views regarding Israel have adversely affected my ability to enjoy his music. I might still listen to old Floyd songs every now and then but I don't have much interest in seeing or listening to what he's currently up to.

Wow. Worst post ever but none of you know why. It is Clams so it is cute.

You're much more interesting without that chip on your shoulder. It draws my attention just like a big old zit on your nose. I can't look away.

I happen to disagree with Clams about Roger Waters myself, but it seems perfectly sensible to have a political discussion about a political artist whose current tour is political.

Sorry I had a disagreement with another board member. I should have known better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibewmq8 ... e=youtu.be
BBC Gilmour Doc

Not the right spot for this, but.....

(have not had time to watch it yet, but looks kinda interesting)

New album is not good. Sorry. Long time Waters/Floyd fan here but it sux, on first (and possibly only) listen. At least I got Stapleton album at same time so I had something new to listen to.

blackwll wrote:New album is not good. Sorry. Long time Waters/Floyd fan here but it sux, on first (and possibly only) listen. At least I got Stapleton album at same time so I had something new to listen to.

Agree to disagree. I think it's great

hah, I just noticed my "Rogers Water" fuckup in thread subject

leaving in about 3 hours to Sac and the show

Zip City wrote:

blackwll wrote:New album is not good. Sorry. Long time Waters/Floyd fan here but it sux, on first (and possibly only) listen. At least I got Stapleton album at same time so I had something new to listen to.

Agree to disagree. I think it's great

I have to say I enjoyed all of the new songs played live and I think Waters is still relevant.

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:hah, I just noticed my "Rogers Water" fuckup in thread subject

leaving in about 3 hours to Sac and the show

a chunk of acid broke free.

tinnitus photography wrote:

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:hah, I just noticed my "Rogers Water" fuckup in thread subject

leaving in about 3 hours to Sac and the show

a chunk of acid broke free.

like the tigers?

Show was great, a sonic and visual spectacle

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:

tinnitus photography wrote:

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:hah, I just noticed my "Rogers Water" fuckup in thread subject

leaving in about 3 hours to Sac and the show

a chunk of acid broke free.

like the tigers?

Show was great, a sonic and visual spectacle

Glad you enjoyed the show. I thought it was the equal to the Wall tour 3 years ago.What was your favorite song?

OkieinTexas wrote:[Glad you enjoyed the show. I thought it was the equal to the Wall tour 3 years ago.What was your favorite song?

Favorite song? Don't think I can answer that, narrowing it down to one would be pert near impossible. Still, gun to head, I think I'll answer with the songs from Animals. Love that album, the performances were stellar, and I've seen that stuff live less than all the other classics that were in the setlist. That said, I may give you a different answer tomorrow

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:

OkieinTexas wrote:[Glad you enjoyed the show. I thought it was the equal to the Wall tour 3 years ago.What was your favorite song?

Favorite song? Don't think I can answer that, narrowing it down to one would be pert near impossible. Still, gun to head, I think I'll answer with the songs from Animals. Love that album, the performances were stellar, and I've seen that stuff live less than all the other classics that were in the setlist. That said, I may give you a different answer tomorrow

Thanks for the response sir. I really loved One Of These Days. A song I think is ok but was great live.

OkieinTexas wrote:

whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:

OkieinTexas wrote:[Glad you enjoyed the show. I thought it was the equal to the Wall tour 3 years ago.What was your favorite song?

Favorite song? Don't think I can answer that, narrowing it down to one would be pert near impossible. Still, gun to head, I think I'll answer with the songs from Animals. Love that album, the performances were stellar, and I've seen that stuff live less than all the other classics that were in the setlist. That said, I may give you a different answer tomorrow

Thanks for the response sir. I really loved One Of These Days. A song I think is ok but was great live.

Oh yeah, One of These Days was wicked! I have seen that one before, otherwise it might have been right there with the Animals songs. I was hoping for Set the Controls.... this tour but alas, he didn't ask for my setlist input