all time sellouts

[PeterJ]

When there are no more tickets left to your concert, isn't that selling out.

Here's to hoping the Truckers sell out.

[Smitty]

It's easy to call an artist a "sell out" when you're not paying their bills. In a perfect world, a musician could stick to his artistic muse and make a decent living (and some actually pull it off, but they're far and between) but that's just not how the world works. I hold a special respect and admiration for musicians that put their art first, but I understand those that have to tow the line to make ends meet. I also understand there are some people that are in it for no other reasons than money and fame, and sometimes it makes me sick to see them be so successful at the detriment of other more "deserving" (IMO) artists, but in the end you can't fault them as much as the environment.

For me, the easiest way to reconcile the two is to think of them in terms of actors and films. Some films are meant to invoke intellectual thinking and deep emotions; some films are meant for eating popcorn and killing time (preferably with some kick ass car chases & explosions). The trick is to enjoy them both for what they are.

[Tequila Cowboy]

It's easy to call an artist a "sell out" when you're not paying their bills. In a perfect world, a musician could stick to his artistic muse and make a decent living (and some actually pull it off, but they're far and between) but that's just not how the world works. I hold a special respect and admiration for musicians that put their art first, but I understand those that have to tow the line to make ends meet. I also understand there are some people that are in it for no other reasons than money and fame, and sometimes it makes me sick to see them be so successful at the detriment of other more "deserving" (IMO) artists, but in the end you can't fault them as much as the environment.

For me, the easiest way to reconcile the two is to think of them in terms of actors and films. Some films are meant to invoke intellectual thinking and deep emotions; some films are meant for eating popcorn and killing time (preferably with some kick ass car chases & explosions). The trick is to enjoy them both for what they are.

Smitty, I think you're right on target here. The analogy to films is brilliant and I couldn't agree more that when I go to see a popcorn muncher all I need is a good chase scene and some awesome explosions. The difference for me is that while I'm a film buff, I'm a casual film buff. I didn't go to film school and although I can certainly tell the difference between a great film and a fun film, I don't take it quite as personally as I do music. For real honest to God film fans, I expect them to deride me a bit for loving the Terminator movies. It's their passion and they will protect it all costs. My passion is music and frankly I'll do the same when pushed into a corner.

I'm not a religious man. Haven't been for a very, very long time, but I do have religion of sorts and that's music. It guides me, it tells me what I believe is truth and it nourishes my soul. In other words it takes the place of religion in any practical sense. So given that I'm not a fan of music that seems to be reaching strictly for the masses and commercial success. So, rightly or wrongly, I make judgements on music based on that conceit. As I said earlier I'm nowhere near as passionate about it as I once was and, to Smitty's point, who can decry someone for making money? For that matter who can decry those who don't care about that? I mean I don't care about commercial films as long as they entertain me so what right do I have to say people can't say the same thing about music? The answer, of course, is that I can't.

So bottom line is that is it fair to condemn commercialism in music and label someone a sellout? No, probably not. It is, however, a natural reaction for those of us who are passionate about it. the best policy is to take a "live and let live" policy and allow other to enjoy what we do not and respect them for it, and understand that a personal decision to make something commercial is just that, a personal decision and we should try to respect that as well.

[PeterJ]

Alright, forget that whole post Smitty and TC just had, let's get back to the fun of this thread.

Heard Undone (The Sweater Song) by Weezer this morning on the way to work. Are Weezer sellouts? I am not sure. They are definitely still "nerdy ass rock". I just don't know if Rivers Cuomo is truly a "nerd".

[Smitty]

Alright, forget that whole post Smitty and TC just had, let's get back to the fun of this thread.

Heard Undone (The Sweater Song) by Weezer this morning on the way to work. Are Weezer sellouts? I am not sure. They are definitely still "nerdy ass rock". I just don't know if Rivers Cuomo is truly a "nerd".

I ain't sure if they're sellouts either, but other than the occasional brilliant single, I can't stand anything since Pinkerton, which I haven't listened to in forever.

[PeterJ]

I ain't sure if they're sellouts either, but other than the occasional brilliant single, I can't stand anything since Pinkerton, which I haven't listened to in forever.

That is about where I am at with them. I just see them all the time in Rolling Stone and other "music" magazines.

[dcfaithful]

I just recently saw KISS.

They're the epitomy. I mean, I already knew they were that kind of band, but I was shown all over again how far they've actually gone. They actually had the crowd repeating "Wal-Mart" in unison. Pretty sad. If there was an tongue-in-cheek to Paul Stanley's shout out to Wal-mart and their album being sold exclusively...it went way over my head.

[Iowan]

I definitely think Weezer sold out. I loved Blue Album and Pinkerton, and thought Green Album and Maladroit were ok. At least they were exploring different styles (straight guitar pop on Green and metal on Maladroit). Everything since then has been unbelievably bad, and more insultingly, the lyrics are just absolute crap. And Cuomo knows it. Maybe their the most "punk" band ever, because they're flagrantly making such intentionally bad music, but outside the occasional brilliant single ("I'm Wondering if You Want Me To" is terrific pop), they're mostly unlistenable these days.

[mhc]

Steven Tyler on American Idol.
Just when the members of Aerosmith could not go any lower, Steven pulls this shit.

[Zip City]

Steven Tyler on American Idol.
Just when the members of Aerosmith could not go any lower, Steven pulls this shit.

Botox ain't free, man

[Clams]

Steven Tyler on American Idol.
Just when the members of Aerosmith could not go any lower, Steven pulls this shit.

Botox ain't free, man

Zip's got a point.

[dcfaithful]

Steven Tyler on American Idol.
Just when the members of Aerosmith could not go any lower, Steven pulls this shit.

He's an asshat, has been for a while. Aerosmith has been washed up for a while too. They should really hang it up before they start having lead singers take jobs on ridiculous talent contest TV shows....oh shit...

[Slipkid42]

watching American Idol = selling out

[Zip City]

Guy Clark sold "Hemingway's Whiskey" to Kenny Chesney to record for his new album. Is Guy Clark now a sellout?

[beantownbubba]

Guy Clark sold "Hemingway's Whiskey" to Kenny Chesney to record for his new album. Is Guy Clark now a sellout?

Oh c'mon zip. Having your tunes recorded by another musician, any other musician, even if the term is used loosely, is not selling out by any definition i've ever heard. Selling a song for a commercial used to be the very heart of the definition of selling out, but i'm not sure that's true anymore. In any case, that's a subject for discussion. Cover versions aren't. Ummmm, are they?

[Smitty]

Do artists specifically have to get permission to cover someone else's song? I say this because Todd Snider has mentioned he didn't know Mark Chesnutt covered his song "Trouble" until he got a royalty check

[beantownbubba]

Do artists specifically have to get permission to cover someone else's song? I say this because Todd Snider has mentioned he didn't know Mark Chesnutt covered his song "Trouble" until he got a royalty check

No, they don't. They just have to give credit and pay royalties. Different if u want to use a song in another medium, like in a TV show or movie or commercial. That's one reason that it can't possibly be "selling out" to have your song covered by some musical elite disapproved artist - the original artist has no control over it.

[Smitty]

Do artists specifically have to get permission to cover someone else's song? I say this because Todd Snider has mentioned he didn't know Mark Chesnutt covered his song "Trouble" until he got a royalty check

No, they don't. They just have to give credit and pay royalties. Different if u want to use a song in another medium, like in a TV show or movie or commercial. That's one reason that it can't possibly be "selling out" to have your song covered by some musical elite disapproved artist - the original artist has no control over it.

Thought so.

Guy Clark is untouchable in my book, no matter what he does.
His voice is also perfect in the Pace™ commericals

[Zip City]

the lines are blurring. This weekend I've seen 3 different commercials using Black Keys songs, plus one using Ray LaMontagne.

[sactochris]

I definitely think Weezer sold out. I loved Blue Album and Pinkerton, and thought Green Album and Maladroit were ok. At least they were exploring different styles (straight guitar pop on Green and metal on Maladroit). Everything since then has been unbelievably bad, and more insultingly, the lyrics are just absolute crap. And Cuomo knows it. Maybe their the most "punk" band ever, because they're flagrantly making such intentionally bad music, but outside the occasional brilliant single ("I'm Wondering if You Want Me To" is terrific pop), they're mostly unlistenable these days.

I agree with everything you have said abou them. I give them a pass because in terms of bands who are actually able to sell a lot of records they are still a pretty good, and very fun rock n roll band.

[Joshua]

the lines are blurring. This weekend I've seen 3 different commercials using Black Keys songs, plus one using Ray LaMontagne.

I just heard The Black Keys are in a Zales diamond commercial. I know they've done some other commercials and even provided the theme music for a TV show, but Zales is a bit much. Biggest sellout move as of late.

[Clams]

the lines are blurring. This weekend I've seen 3 different commercials using Black Keys songs, plus one using Ray LaMontagne.

I just heard The Black Keys are in a Zales diamond commercial. I know they've done some other commercials and even provided the theme music for a TV show, but Zales is a bit much. Biggest sellout move as of late.

I don't think it's a sell out for a young, up and coming band like the Black Keys to sell their music to Apple or AT&T or Zales or Budweiser, etc for use in a commercial. That's called surviving, not selling out. A sell out is when that's done by an established artist who doesn't need the cash.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I don't think it's a sell out for a young, up and coming band like the Black Keys to sell their music to Apple or AT&T or Zales or Budweiser, etc for use in a commercial. That's called surviving, not selling out. A sell out is when that's done by an established artist who doesn't need the cash.

Interesting so if right out of the box you sacrifice some of your integrity and seel a song for commercial gain that's ok, but if you're established and have money it's not? Seems odd, seems to me that when you're a young growing band that's when integrity is most important.

[Zip City]

I don't think it's a sell out for a young, up and coming band like the Black Keys to sell their music to Apple or AT&T or Zales or Budweiser, etc for use in a commercial. That's called surviving, not selling out. A sell out is when that's done by an established artist who doesn't need the cash.

Interesting so if right out of the box you sacrifice some of your integrity and seel a song for commercial gain that's ok, but if you're established and have money it's not? Seems odd, seems to be that when you're a young growing band that's when integrity is most important.

so getting paid = no integrity?

in today's music business, I don't blame any young band for making a dime from a commercial if it means they get to keep doing what they do

[Tequila Cowboy]

I don't think it's a sell out for a young, up and coming band like the Black Keys to sell their music to Apple or AT&T or Zales or Budweiser, etc for use in a commercial. That's called surviving, not selling out. A sell out is when that's done by an established artist who doesn't need the cash.

Interesting so if right out of the box you sacrifice some of your integrity and seel a song for commercial gain that's ok, but if you're established and have money it's not? Seems odd, seems to be that when you're a young growing band that's when integrity is most important.

so getting paid = no integrity?

in today's music business, I don't blame any young band for making a dime from a commercial if it means they get to keep doing what they do

I think you have to be careful. yeah money is tough to come by for today's artists, but the question is as an artist are you doing it to make money or doing it for arts sake? I've never felt making money is a bad thing, but trying to make money at the expense of art can be. It's a tough line.

[Zip City]

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that the Black Keys probably won't change their sound due to selling songs for ads

[Joshua]

I don't think getting paid = no intergrity, but I do think who is paying you can equal no intergrity. I understand that can be a very subjective statement, but as I said Zales seems a bit much. For some reason I don't mind AT&T or Budweiser, but Zales just seems to cross an imaginary line in the sand.

[rlipps]

I think there's a big difference between letting a company use a song you've already written and recorded and actually writing a song for a specific commercial or writing a song with the sole intent of cashing in commercially.

[sactochris]

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that the Black Keys probably won't change their sound due to selling songs for ads

I think this is the bottom line.

[PeterJ]

I think there's a big difference between letting a company use a song you've already written and recorded and actually writing a song for a specific commercial or writing a song with the sole intent of cashing in commercially.

I was just about to post the same thing.

writing a song for a specific commercial or writing a song with the sole intent of cashing in commercially.

I think even these two things are different in themselves. Who cares is some Joe Blow in his apartment wrote the stupid KFC "S-o-G-double o-d" song, or if Bob Dylan wrote it for them, chances are, he isn't going to sell it as a single. Now if Bob Dylan is working on a song, and changes it so it will be played on Y105, or whatever your shitty local pop station is, that is selling out.