RolanK wrote:I am confused; What differentiates Weirdo Fringe Alt.Country from "regular" Weirdo Fringe Country?
And can we have sub genres?
Good question. I believe the genesis of the thread began with a discussion here. I think it represents a sub-genre of the ever-elusive larger genre commonly-referred to as "alt.country." Some of the "pioneers" of what I believe Smitty means by "weirdo, fringe alt.country" are Drag City folks like Will Oldham, Bill Callahan & David Berman. And, like every classification, it tends to create friction, disagreement, confusion, etc.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM
cortez the killer wrote:You could make an argument for HGM to fit that description. Although, the "weirdo" part in his case is a bit of a stretch. Musically, he is fairly straightforward country/folk/rock. He obviously puts his own stamp/spin on things, but, personally speaking, I don't consider him to be like some of the other artists mentioned in this thread.
I thought about throwing "Poor Moon" in, solely on the basis that it just gives me this vibe I've described as unusually "ancient" before. I struggle to accurately verbalize the feeling I get from HGM, but its something out of the ordinary for sure.
But the song arrangements seem pretty standard, the instrumentation is typical, and some of it is just too damn catchy to be "weirdo".
Last edited by Iowan on Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RolanK wrote:I am confused; What differentiates Weirdo Fringe Alt.Country from "regular" Weirdo Fringe Country?
And can we have sub genres?
Good question. I believe the genesis of the thread began with a discussion here. I think it represents a sub-genre of the ever-elusive larger genre commonly-referred to as "alt.country." Some of the "pioneers" of what I believe Smitty means by "weirdo, fringe alt.country" are Drag City folks like Will Oldham, Bill Callahan & David Berman. And, like every classification, it tends to create friction, disagreement, confusion, etc.
I also believe The Handsome Family and Jim White are on the money. I'm thinking true outsiders in what is already considered an outsider genre. I'm thinking maybe Angry Johnny and the Killbillies and 16 Horsepower might also fit the bill. On the surface it may seem like Angry Johnny and the Killbillies are typical alt.country but once you dig deeper you'll soon find that isn't the case at all.
RolanK wrote:I am confused; What differentiates Weirdo Fringe Alt.Country from "regular" Weirdo Fringe Country?
And can we have sub genres?
Good question. I believe the genesis of the thread began with a discussion here. I think it represents a sub-genre of the ever-elusive larger genre commonly-referred to as "alt.country." Some of the "pioneers" of what I believe Smitty means by "weirdo, fringe alt.country" are Drag City folks like Will Oldham, Bill Callahan & David Berman. And, like every classification, it tends to create friction, disagreement, confusion, etc.
Thanks. I guess I was trying to be funny (which is never a good idea in a foreign language) by suggesting to drop the Alt. But if one is to take this (semi-)seriously it probably makes sense to leave it in there. Without it I guess it would suggest it originates from Country as a parallel to Alt.Country
I remember we had a discussion about the country influences of Patterson and Cooley a while ago, where I may have stirred up a couple of people with some of my statements. When it comes to musical genres and how we perceive and identify them I guess there are (at least) a couple of "layers" working. My take on this is that our perception of a song is determined by how the song is written; chord progression, melody lines and perhaps also lyrics. The other side of it is aesthetics; production, instruments (banjos, fiddles and pedal steel etc.), as well as rhythm and groove, and perhaps more subtle tonal characteristics like "twang" and "drawl". I suspect some of the music being labeled alt.country has more to do with the latter than the former. I don't know. Just a theory.
I really really enjoy this stuff, especially late at night.
Giant Sand - Is All Over the Map, Glum, and Center of the Universe Lambchop - Nixon, Is a Woman, and Mr. M. Everything i've heard by Bill Callahan and Richard Buckner (still playing catch up with these too). Olds Sleeper - New Year's Poem (Thanks Cortez). His new one, Before and After the Here and Now isn't as weird but it is pretty damn good. All of Theodore's albums. I need to listen to more Vic Chestnutt.
RolanK wrote:I am confused; What differentiates Weirdo Fringe Alt.Country from "regular" Weirdo Fringe Country?
And can we have sub genres?
Good question. I believe the genesis of the thread began with a discussion here. I think it represents a sub-genre of the ever-elusive larger genre commonly-referred to as "alt.country." Some of the "pioneers" of what I believe Smitty means by "weirdo, fringe alt.country" are Drag City folks like Will Oldham, Bill Callahan & David Berman. And, like every classification, it tends to create friction, disagreement, confusion, etc.
I also believe The Handsome Family and Jim White are on the money. I'm thinking true outsiders in what is already considered an outsider genre. I'm thinking maybe Angry Johnny and the Killbillies and 16 Horsepower might also fit the bill. On the surface it may seem like Angry Johnny and the Killbillies are typical alt.country but once you dig deeper you'll soon find that isn't the case at all.
I don't know anything about Angry Johnny & his Killbillies, but, based on the name alone, I imagine they would fit. The others you mention absolutely fit like a glove.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM
I got into Angry Johnny after hearing their "All American Girl" at the end of that 11:13 (or someshit like that) movie. Seems like Rachel Leigh Cook fucked some dead guy in a cemetary? Patrick Swayze was her dad. Fun movie, although I barely remember it. DBT opened for them a ton back in the early days.
Neglected by your mama, Abandoned by your dad. Molested by your uncle, Girl, your story's really sad. You had eating disorders. You got skinny, you got fat. Watched your older brother decapitate your cat.
You're a all American, all American girl.
The day you turned 14 you weren't a baby anymore. Took on the baseball team right On that dirty dugout floor. Then you tried your hand at football. Sacked the quarterback. Drinkin beer and smokin' dope And lying on your back.
You're a all American, all American girl.
Got a fake ID when you were just 16. Discovered rock n' roll, Gecame a backstage groupie queen. Rode in all the vans of every member of the band. Said you only live once, Gonna get it while you can. . Well life's been too much livin' It's showing in your face. But you just keep on cheatin' And repeatin' your mistakes. You love 'em and you leave 'em, Don't even know their names. Life is one big party. I'm really glad you came, You're a all American, all American girl.
You're looking pretty sick girl, No you don't look too well. You're eyes are sunk from all that junk, You're on your way to hell. Just back from the clinic, They're positive you're done. Guess it doesn't matter, long as you had fun.
You're a all American, all American girl. You're just a all American, all American girl. Nothin' but a all American, all American, all American, all American, all American, all American girl
edit:I remember now - the guy died while fucking Rachel Leigh Cook. She wasn't a necrophiliac or anything.
Last edited by Smitty on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cooley's wearing a Hankenstein shirt in this webisode for The Big To-Do. Like Smitty said, I'm pretty sure they toured a bunch with the DBT's back in the day. They also contributed a few songs to the Thrillbillys soundtrack (along with the Truckers) back in 2001. That soundtrack was the first place I ever heard the studio version of "The Southern Thing".
Cooley's wearing a Hankenstein shirt in this webisode for The Big To-Do. Like Smitty said, I'm pretty sure they toured a bunch with the DBT's back in the day. They also contributed a few songs to the Thrillbillys soundtrack (along with the Truckers) back in 2001. That soundtrack was the first place I ever heard the studio version of "The Southern Thing".
At the recent Northampton show Patterson mentioned Angry Johnny (who I think was from that area). Told a story about crashing at his place and Cooley crapping in a pizza box. Details are fuzzy, Bubba probably retained more.
As I remember it, beebs, Patterson flatly and fervently denied that anyone associated w/ DBT crapped in a pizza box. Seemed a bit too defensive to me, ya know? Clearly a dramatic, traumatic evening in any case.
FWIW, this is likely to be my only post on this thread. I have no idea wtf y'all are talking about but hell, I'm still trying to figure out "americana." Carry on.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
beantownbubba wrote:As I remember it, beebs, Patterson flatly and fervently denied that anyone associated w/ DBT crapped in a pizza box. Seemed a bit too defensive to me, ya know? Clearly a dramatic, traumatic evening in any case.
FWIW, this is likely to be my only post on this thread. I have no idea wtf y'all are talking about but hell, I'm still trying to figure out "americana." Carry on.
btb, 'americana' is the music genre where the musicians use yak wool and cisterns full of yak spit to create drones. but the musicians have to be born in the US.
beantownbubba wrote:As I remember it, beebs, Patterson flatly and fervently denied that anyone associated w/ DBT crapped in a pizza box. Seemed a bit too defensive to me, ya know? Clearly a dramatic, traumatic evening in any case.
FWIW, this is likely to be my only post on this thread. I have no idea wtf y'all are talking about but hell, I'm still trying to figure out "americana." Carry on.
btb, 'americana' is the music genre where the musicians use yak wool and cisterns full of yak spit to create drones. but the musicians have to be born in the US.
So you're saying that although the people in the below picture have their yaks and are clearly ready to jam some righteous tunes they will be turned away because they weren't born in America?
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
If I were putting together a playlist of what Smitty has semi-brilliantly coined "weirdo, fringe alt.country," I can't see how I could leave the following song off that list:
Maybe that clears things up a little. Maybe it doesn't.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM
Clearly a dramatic, traumatic evening in any case. 
