If That Ain't Country...

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Cole Younger
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Cole Younger »

I like Cash. A lot.

But the way the hipster crowd annointed him as some sort of icon has always sort of gotten on my nerves. Not because I don't think he's great. I do. I just don't quite understand it. To me it's the image they're in love with. The black clothes and the sort of brooding, dark persona that was an extension of that. It's almost like they got into him out of some odd sense of irony. I don't know. I admit that I don't understand much of anything about the hipster culture or what makes those folks tick.

Cash himself found the entire thing baffling, somewhat ridiculous, and sort of funny. He said so in his autobiography. He appreciated those folks liking his music but he went so far as to say that he was not exactly who it seemed like those folks thought he was. That cracked me up.

I like his songs a lot. I do get tired of FPB somewhat because there are so many others that are just as good. nd this is just personal preference but I prefer Waylon over Cash, Willie, or any of the other "outlaw" types.
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Cole Younger
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Cole Younger »

dime in the gutter wrote:Image
a perfect pic with regard to content.

rafters
stand up base with newsboy cap
hank wearing white suit, hat and boots....all ghost like
plugged in wide body and amp (picker dude is blinged up)
old glory with only 48 stars
wooden folding chair
sunlight beaming thru from god
bull horns

rock star.


Man what a great pic. To me it doesn't get any better than old Hank.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by beantownbubba »

All you need to know about the album list is that i have waaaaay too many of those albums. I'm nothing more than a dabbler in country and while I no doubt have excellent taste ;) , if they're hitting my sweet spot they either don't know too much about country music or they don't have really good taste (oddly enough, the same albums that indicate that i have good taste as a neophyte/dabbler indicate a lack of taste, or really, depth, on the part of someone who claims expertise).
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Cole Younger
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Cole Younger »

BiloxiParish wrote:I'm surprised so much Garth Brooks made the list. I get he transformed country and took the place of Springsteen for working class America when Springsteen's star faded in the late 80's and 90's and I know all his songs by heart, but I really can't stomach to listen to those songs 15 and 20 years later. They haven't stood the test of time to me..


Oh man. Garth Brooks. Yuck.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by beantownbubba »

Given the order of the most recent posts let me be clear lest my claim of good taste be challenged: I was NOT referring to the Garth Brooks albums :lol:
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

BiloxiParish

Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by BiloxiParish »

beantownbubba wrote:Given the order of the most recent posts let me be clear lest my claim of good taste be challenged: I was NOT referring to the Garth Brooks albums :lol:


Im almost to 30, but the only way I know most the Garth Brooks albums was because of my parents listening to them all.. the damn.. time..

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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Slipkid42 »

bubba, your taste is never in question.

Hank Sr. is by far the greatest country dude ever. I was a rock & roll kid through & through & my stepdad kinda forced Hank on me. Slowly but surely I came to realize that he was a poet. His songs are pure gold. Half As Much, Jambalaya, Move It On Over, Cold, Cold Heart & I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry are as good as any songs ever (any genre). Hank is to country what Dylan is to R & R.

Beyond Hank my stepdad 'forced' upon me many other country jewels. Ferlin Husky, Eddie Arnold, Charlie Pride, Hank Snow, Loretta Lynn, his favorite girl Kitty Wells, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, Ernest Tubb, Jimmie Dickens & of course Johnny Cash. It took me 25 years to come to appreciate this music; but I came to appreciate it in spite of myself, and it has certainly rounded out my mental jukebox. I found a few country gems on my own. John Prine & Townes Van Zandt are certainly in the discussion of great country singers. They have a certain world-weariness about them that makes their music timeless & special. Country rock (now called alt-country) is also something that always got me all stirred up. G. Parsons, Poco, New Riders Of The Purple Sage, the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and even the Byrds & Eagles all had a certain twang to them that was better than anything called country music now. Love Like This is a song that reminds me of how country should sound. If Cooley had been born 25 years earlier, he may have been a household name.

To me, the best country now is bluegrass. My wife turned me on to that.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Iowan »

My relationship with country music has been a strange one.

There's something about country music that has hit the core of my existence from as long as I can remember. My dad has great taste in music, and his collection basically dominated my early formative years. The point I look back on and realize that I've always had an innate connection to country music was the first time I heard "Honky Tonk Women". My dad played "Let It Bleed" on a very regular basis, and "Country Honk" has been a song I loved since before I can actually remember. When I first realized there was a more electric version of that song, I realized that I preferred "Country Honk".

The Upper Midwest has an odd relationship with country music. Just listen to a late era Replacements album and you'll get the idea. Radio country is very popular with the masses because it directly tries to be popular with people in rural areas. However, its a generally accepted principle among those who seek more than popular music that radio country is abhorrent garbage that is directed at people who don't really like music, or at least don't view music in a critical light. By the time I was 12 years old, it seemed that country music was just not something that was compatible with my musical interests. I started listening to a lot of punk and jam bands, essentially looking down on country as total trash. Cheap, corporate driven music that played to dumb people's emotions and didn't really strive for anything. Plus, I don't have a southern accent. No one I knew had a southern accent. There seemed to be something inherent in country music that I couldn't relate to.

But then, my musical development lead me back into classic rock after ignoring it for most of my teenage years, and I head "Wild Horses" for the first time. I don't know I hadn't heard it before (never gets radio play here, and the old man didn't have "Sticky Fingers" on CD). I was indescribably floored. There was just something in that mix of music. Acoustic guitar, violin, slide riffs, aching vocals that just punched me in the gut and connected on a deep, primal level. Then it hit me. I always preferred "Country Honk" to "Honky Tonk Women". There was just something in real country music that moved me at an instinctual level. That dusty sound. That mix of acoustic guitar, steel guitar, slide guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, stand up bass, walking bass, pained/aching vocals. Something in that that just lurks in the heart of rural America. That clings to the dust that flies behind a pick up barreling down a dry gravel road. Something that was a part of me on a level I didn't understand.

From that point, country music slowly worked its way back into my life on a steadily increasing basis. What I realized was that the music I actually hated was still terrible music that being a fan of "country" music didn't require liking. I realized how radio country was just bastardized rip off schlock, and the shame in liking that music was not existent in liking that true country. From the country side of the Stones, I started picking up more Cash and David Allen Coe. I remember lots of late nights cruising the gravel roads of Mitchell County, Iowa with my cousin, pounding Old Mil and singing along to "You Never Even Called Me By Name". I picked up a little Whiskeytown. Loved it. But then, in 2007 I discovered DBT, and it blew my doors wide open. It finally married country and rock and roll in such a perfect way that I had never experienced. Later I would discover Todd Snider and Jerry Jeff. It helped me see that you didn't need a southern accent to sing country music. These experiences finally drove home to me how much country music has always been a part of me, and always will be.
Last edited by Iowan on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Cole Younger
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Cole Younger »

Iowan wrote:My relationship with country music has been a strange one.

There's something about country music that has hit the core of my existence from as long as I can remember. My dad has great taste in music, and his collection basically dominated my formative years. The point I look back on and realize that I've always had an innate connection to country music was the first time I heard "Honky Tonk Women". My dad played "Let It Bleed" on a very regular basis, and "Country Honk" has been a song I loved since before I can actually remember. When I first realized there was a more electric version of that song, I realized that I preferred "Country Honk".

The Upper Midwest has an odd relationship with country music. Radio country is very popular with the masses because it directly tries to be popular with people in rural areas. However, its a generally accepted principle among those who seek more than popular music that radio country is abhorrent garbage that is directed at people who don't really like music, or at least don't view music in a critical light. By the time I was 12 years old, it seemed that country music was just not something that was compatible with my musical interests. I started listening to a lot of punk and jam bands, essentially looking down on country as total trash. Cheap, corporate driven music that played to dumb people's emotions and didn't really strive for anything. Plus, I don't have a southern accent. No one I knew had a southern accent. There seemed to be something inherent in country music that I couldn't relate to.

But then, my musical development lead me back into classic rock after ignoring it for most of formative years, and I head "Wild Horses" for the first time. I don't know I hadn't heard it before (never gets radio play here, and the old man didn't have "Sticky Fingers" on CD). I was indescribably floored. There was just something in that mix of music. Acoustic guitar, violin, slide riffs, aching vocals that just punched me in the gut and connected on a deep, primal level. Then it hit me. I always preferred "Country Honk" to "Honky Tonk Women". There was just something in real country music that moved me at an instinctual level. That dusty sound. That mix of acoustic guitar, steel guitar, slide guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, stand up bass, walking bass, pained/aching vocals. Something in that that just lurks in the heart of rural America. That clings to the dust that flies behind a pick up barreling down a dry gravel road. Something that was a part of me on a level I didn't understand.

From that point, country music slowly worked its way back into my life on a steadily increasing basis. What I realized was that the music I actually hated was still terrible music that being a fan of "country" music didn't require liking. I realized how radio country was just bastardized rip off schlock, and the shame in liking that music was not existent in liking that true country. From the country side of the Stones, I started picking up more Cash and David Allen Coe. I remember lots of late nights cruising the gravel roads of Mitchell County, Iowa with my cousin, pounding Old Mil and singing along to "You Never Even Called Me By Name". I picked up a little Whiskeytown. Loved it. But then, in 2007 I discovered DBT, and it blew my doors wide open. It finally married country and rock and roll in such a perfect way that I had never experienced, and it finally drove home to me how much country music has always been a part of me, and always will be.


Great post.
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Smitty
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Smitty »

beantownbubba wrote:All you need to know about the album list is that i have waaaaay too many of those albums. I'm nothing more than a dabbler in country and while I no doubt have excellent taste ;) , if they're hitting my sweet spot they either don't know too much about country music or they don't have really good taste (oddly enough, the same albums that indicate that i have good taste as a neophyte/dabbler indicate a lack of taste, or really, depth, on the part of someone who claims expertise).


If you're referring to my post, maybe it was a lil misleading. The albums they included that I bitched about are almost all top-notch good-to-great albums, just not necessarily "greatest ever" material. Some of them make me think they may not have even listened to the albums listed; they just thought of a legendary artist who should be included and randomly picked an album from their wikipedia page to represent them.
As for the Haggard and Cash albums, they definitely belong but they both had other albums that are superior/just as good, just not necessarily as popular. For example, Haggard's Hag (which may be disqualified because it doesn't contain any hits), I'm a Lonesome Fugitive and Sing Me Back Home are all stronger records than Mama Tried; it could be argued that they all should be in a 100 Greatest C&W Albums list, 'cuz honestly there really aren't many albums that are better. Country music (besides a few exceptions) has always been a singles game - most legendary country artists' albums contained a hit or two and the rest were fillers/covers of other popular songs. Haggard is definitely an exception, although he couldn't avoid that trap altogether either (ie "Folsom Prison Blues" on Mama Tried; although Hag lends it a certain honesty that's lacking in the Cash version).
If you're looking for a Cash record to include, you cannot leave out Orange Blossom Special, which is his undisputed greatest non-compilation album (atleast pre-American recordings, which are very good but nowhere near the level that they're praised. I think it was Dylan who said the American Recordings were "notoriously low-grade" and lacked "the soul and depth" of the earlier Cash records).Bitter Tears should also be represented; not only is it one of the earliest concept albums in C&W (although it was Cash's 4th or 5th concept record; a full 8 years before Willie's Yesterday's Wine, which is often mentioned as the first concept record in C&W, and 10 years before Phases & Stages) it was also extremely controversian at the time; speaking out about the unfair treatment Native Americans had experienced didn't go over well in conservative Nashville.

I don't claim any expertise when it comes to country music, but it's been an obsession since I was a young child and I do know a little (and I guess the rest). Regardless Bubba, I don't think anyone on here (or anywhere) can question your taste*.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by RolanK »

Iowan wrote: From the country side of the Stones, I started picking up more Cash and David Allen Coe.


It's interesting you mention Stones in this context. Although I allways find it diffcult in retrospect to say how my taste in music has developed, also in my case Stones may actually be partly responsible for my inclination towards contry(-ish) music. Perhaps I hear more of a gospel/country-soul (labels :? ) influence in Wild Horses, but one of my early favorites of off Exile was Sweet Virginia. Country Honk is a good example as well.
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Kudzu Guillotine
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

I was introduced to country music pretty early on and even though my folks listened to stuff like Cash, Conway Twitty and Loretta, it wasn't necessarily because of them. It had more to do with my older brothers and sister who were all into the Cosmic Cowboy, "country-rock" kind of stuff due to the Grateful Dead, Dylan, Flying Burrito Brothers, etc. Probably the closest I came to "hard" country was Waylon, who was quickly followed by Willie and David Allan Coe. It wasn't until years later that I really explored the works of Merle Haggard and others that I had considered more traditional. That was largely due to local bands such as the Backsliders, $2 Pistols and Greg Hawks and the Tremblers who were all very strongly influenced by the hard core honky tonk stuff. It was an acquired taste and I'm still not the biggest fan but it did help to broaden my horizons some. I think Patterson's cover of "Pay No Attention To Alice" also helped a great deal in that regard as far as getting into Tom T. Hall beyond the usual fare I'd heard growing up.

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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Zip City »

Image
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dime in the gutter
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by dime in the gutter »

zip, i don't know that there's an entrance exam for this thread....don't be lazy. cortez needs to make a ruling there.

you don't have any offering to bypass that process and just jump into the thread?

you like son volt. you like blue grassish. you like willie nelson. right?

revmatt is gonna break down the inner workings of bands that fire a banjo player during a tour and the hurt feelings that causes for the "scene".

urban cowboy will be discussed by smitty and btb will need convincing.

hell, i might even be able to come up with a case for pink floyd ripping off hank sr if you stick around.

it's a party up in here....just don't hate on johnny cash.

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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by TW_2.0 »

Their "underground" list.

Not sure I know what that means.

But I haven't heard of about half of this list. Might need to dig in.

http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/the-greatest-underground-country-albums-of-all-time
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

TW_2.0 wrote:Their "underground" list.

Not sure I know what that means.

But I haven't heard of about half of this list. Might need to dig in.

http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/the-greatest-underground-country-albums-of-all-time

Dude needs to include more "Wierdo, Fringe Alt-Country" on his "Underground" list.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Iowan »

Zip City wrote:Image


Not sure how how a die-hard DBT fan can feel this way. Seems counter-intuitive. Country music is a huge part of this band, period.

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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Zip City »

Iowan wrote:
Not sure how how a die-hard DBT fan can feel this way. Seems counter-intuitive. Country music is a huge part of this band, period.


I have a very complicated relationship with this genre. My love/hate country is literally on a song-by-song basis
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Steve French »

Zip City wrote:
Iowan wrote:
Not sure how how a die-hard DBT fan can feel this way. Seems counter-intuitive. Country music is a huge part of this band, period.


I have a very complicated relationship with this genre. My love/hate country is literally on a song-by-song basis


Yeah. For example, I adore a couple of songs by Big & Rich. But many don't.

and their album kind of sucked.

I spent a LONG time telling everyone how hard country sucked.. My parents and their generation listened to a lot of 70's schmaltz. (its one of the reasons I know the lyrics to THE GAMBLER: THOUGH I TRY TO FORGET).

Still, if we all liked the same stuff, it would be a boring world huh?
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Steve French »

dime in the gutter wrote:Image
rock star.


DAmn right.
I've never taken a pissbreak during a DBT show but if I had it would have been during Dancing Ricky.

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Kudzu Guillotine
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

Steve French wrote:
Zip City wrote:
Iowan wrote:
Not sure how how a die-hard DBT fan can feel this way. Seems counter-intuitive. Country music is a huge part of this band, period.


I have a very complicated relationship with this genre. My love/hate country is literally on a song-by-song basis


Yeah. For example, I adore a couple of songs by Big & Rich. But many don't.

and their album kind of sucked.

I spent a LONG time telling everyone how hard country sucked.. My parents and their generation listened to a lot of 70's schmaltz. (its one of the reasons I know the lyrics to THE GAMBLER: THOUGH I TRY TO FORGET).

Still, if we all liked the same stuff, it would be a boring world huh?


Funny thing about "The Gambler" is that it was written by Don Shlitz, one of the most well regarded songwriters to ever come down the pike. Then again, I wasn't really paying much attention to who Kenny Rogers was covering back in the day aside from "Makin' Music For Money" (Alex Harvey) which Jimmy Buffett had also covered on A1A. A year or so ago Shlitz played a show on his hometurf of Durham, NC. I didn't go but a friend did and he said he was amazed at just how many songs he recognized that he never knew Schlitz had written. I totally get the schmaltz thing though as my Mom was really into Kenny Rogers circa "Lucille". I reconciled my love for that song via Waylon's version...

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cortez the killer
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

At this point, I'm amused by people who flat-out say they hate and/or dismiss country music. I think it is, by far, the least understood genre of American music. Sure there are tons of shitty country artists. Then again, there are tons of shitty artists in <insert the genre> music.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Zip City »

I think dismissing any genre out of hand is ridiculous.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

dime in the gutter wrote:zip, i don't know that there's an entrance exam for this thread....don't be lazy. cortez needs to make a ruling there.

you don't have any offering to bypass that process and just jump into the thread?

you like son volt. you like blue grassish. you like willie nelson. right?

Add Johnny Cash to that list, too.

No exams. One simple rule - Don't be a douche. Might be a lost cause, but I am working on being more of an optimist.
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cortez the killer
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

Zip City wrote:I think dismissing any genre out of hand is ridiculous.

Interesting... Image
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Zip City »

cortez the killer wrote:
Zip City wrote:I think dismissing any genre out of hand is ridiculous.

Interesting... Image


You misunderstood me.

That wasn't me dismissing country music. That's me walking into a thread where I'm clearly in over my head.

If you paid any attention at all to my posts, you'd know there is country I not only like, but listen to frequently
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Iowan »

RolanK wrote:
Iowan wrote: From the country side of the Stones, I started picking up more Cash and David Allen Coe.


It's interesting you mention Stones in this context. Although I allways find it diffcult in retrospect to say how my taste in music has developed, also in my case Stones may actually be partly responsible for my inclination towards contry(-ish) music. Perhaps I hear more of a gospel/country-soul (labels :? ) influence in Wild Horses, but one of my early favorites of off Exile was Sweet Virginia. Country Honk is a good example as well.


Sweet Virginia is classic "country Stones".

I left it out of the last post, but "Dead Flowers" is a titan in that category. Hell, I'd go so far as to call it one of the top 15 country songs of all time. At least to these ears. I mean Townes Van Zandt fucking covered it.

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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

Iowan wrote:
RolanK wrote:
Iowan wrote: From the country side of the Stones, I started picking up more Cash and David Allen Coe.


It's interesting you mention Stones in this context. Although I allways find it diffcult in retrospect to say how my taste in music has developed, also in my case Stones may actually be partly responsible for my inclination towards contry(-ish) music. Perhaps I hear more of a gospel/country-soul (labels :? ) influence in Wild Horses, but one of my early favorites of off Exile was Sweet Virginia. Country Honk is a good example as well.


Sweet Virginia is classic "country Stones".

I left it out of the last post, but "Dead Flowers" is a titan in that category. Hell, I'd go so far as to call it one of the top 15 country songs of all time. At least to these ears. I mean Townes Van Zandt fucking covered it.

Some people here actually thought is was a TVZ song. Shhhhhh.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by cortez the killer »

Zip City wrote:If you paid any attention at all to my posts, you'd know there is country I not only like, but listen to frequently

I guess that's where/why you lost me.
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Re: If That Ain't Country...

Post by Iowan »

cortez the killer wrote:
Iowan wrote:
RolanK wrote:It's interesting you mention Stones in this context. Although I allways find it diffcult in retrospect to say how my taste in music has developed, also in my case Stones may actually be partly responsible for my inclination towards contry(-ish) music. Perhaps I hear more of a gospel/country-soul (labels :? ) influence in Wild Horses, but one of my early favorites of off Exile was Sweet Virginia. Country Honk is a good example as well.


Sweet Virginia is classic "country Stones".

I left it out of the last post, but "Dead Flowers" is a titan in that category. Hell, I'd go so far as to call it one of the top 15 country songs of all time. At least to these ears. I mean Townes Van Zandt fucking covered it.

Some people here actually thought is was a TVZ song. Shhhhhh.


I want names.

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