the Springsteen thread

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chuckrh
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:34 pm
^^^^^READ THIS^^^^^

Note especially the impact on smaller artists in smaller venues. Remember Cooley saying DB T isn't in the music business, it's in the tshirt business? How many times has pretty much everyone on this site bought band merchandise (DBT and other) specifically to support the artist? Did you know that TWENTY PERCENT of what you paid went to Ticketmaster????? I didn't.

In this context, Bruce's comments quoted above don't come across real well. Again, I'm not against artists keeping more of the value they create. The problem is Ticketmaster.
Also, buying music at shows goes to the artist. I bought a Particle Kid cd at the show last week. Not something my record store would carry. & the woman who was handling merch for the band actually travelled with them. Great cd & the tshirts they had were designed by Micah Nelson himself.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Binyamin Appelbaum's op ed in today's NYT is worth reading in its entirety, but here are a couple of highlights:

"Monopolies raise prices, but that’s not the only reason Americans should be worried about the rise of corporate concentration. Companies with market power also tend to get lazy. They stop trying to deliver the best possible product. Jonathan Skrmetti, the Republican attorney general of Tennessee, told The Washington Post that Ticketmaster’s customer service problems raised the question of whether “because they have such a dominant market position, they felt like they didn’t have to worry about that.”

"One big reason [that companies allowed to merge despite threats to competition] is that the incumbents don’t like competition and they seek to prevent it. Live Nation didn’t keep its promises. In 2019 the Department of Justice concluded that the company had repeatedly threatened venues to win business for Ticketmaster. To address the violations, the government required Live Nation to repeat the promise it had broken. Ms. Swift might describe that as a nightmare dressed like a daydream."
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by tinnitus photography »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:34 pm
^^^^^READ THIS^^^^^

Note especially the impact on smaller artists in smaller venues. Remember Cooley saying DB T isn't in the music business, it's in the tshirt business? How many times has pretty much everyone on this site bought band merchandise (DBT and other) specifically to support the artist? Did you know that TWENTY PERCENT of what you paid went to Ticketmaster????? I didn't.
it goes to Live Nation, not TM. Venue merch cuts are a thing, unfortunately. plenty of documentation around it. Bands have been known to under report or sell merch next door at some bar or out of their tour van after the gig to attempt this usury (and of course there's a scaling issue here, a band playing a 2K+ venue isn't really going to be able to do this. it's awful.

chuckrh
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:54 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:34 pm
^^^^^READ THIS^^^^^

Note especially the impact on smaller artists in smaller venues. Remember Cooley saying DB T isn't in the music business, it's in the tshirt business? How many times has pretty much everyone on this site bought band merchandise (DBT and other) specifically to support the artist? Did you know that TWENTY PERCENT of what you paid went to Ticketmaster????? I didn't.
it goes to Live Nation, not TM. Venue merch cuts are a thing, unfortunately. plenty of documentation around it. Bands have been known to under report or sell merch next door at some bar or out of their tour van after the gig to attempt this usury (and of course there's a scaling issue here, a band playing a 2K+ venue isn't really going to be able to do this. it's awful.
Live Nation owns Ticketmaster though.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

Can't remember if I've written about this here before but I actually won a battle against Ticketmaster some years ago. They refused to sell me ADA seats (despite being certified as disabled by the state) to a Seahawks game. Well, I raised hell. I took it to a local tv news consumer protection specialist & was on tv about the situation. Of course TM tried to throw the team under the bus when they had nothing to do with it. Turned out I got an email from the CEO of Live Nation apologizing as it picked up steam online. I also got choice tickets for a huge game. The Seahawks were grateful that I made sure to let people know that the problem wasn't them & for several years sold me ADA seats at season ticket prices for 2 games a year. I probably could've & should've sued Live Nation et al when I had the chance but I'm not one of those people who runs to lawyers. I've had some issues since like this years RHCP tour where the transaction for ADA seats blew up every time you tried to purchase them. Ticketmaster's nonexistent customer service never bothered to respond to the problem. As the show was at the baseball stadium, the Mariners took care of the problem at the show. They have visions of me falling down stairs but generally they are most helpful to people with mobility issues.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:54 pm
it goes to Live Nation, not TM.
I'm not sure what to make of this. If you're making a literal legalistic point, well, ok but i'm not sure where it gets you. As has been pointed out by Chuck and others, LN owns TM. LN and TM together monopolize the market for live music venues and tickets to live music events which gives them the power to demand a huge cut of merch revenues to which they have no legitimate claim on top of all their other monopolistic, anti-consumer actions/policies.

LN/TM is a bad actor, a bad corporate citizen in the current lingo, which makes its money by exercising monopoly power to screw artists and consumers and to some extent non-affiliated venues as well.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by brettac1 »

As kind of an answer to the "what other way can this be done" question, I got an email this AM to register to have an opportunity to buy Billy Strings tickets for Red Rocks using their "Fair AXS" system.

It's a lottery and if you are selected, they let you know the day before tickets go on sale. It doesn't guarantee you will get them but that you will have an opportunity to buy up to four tickets, that you are an actual human, etc. Also they tell you what the tickets fucking *cost* right when you are registering. What a concept!
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by tinnitus photography »

beantownbubba wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:46 pm
tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:54 pm
it goes to Live Nation, not TM.
I'm not sure what to make of this. If you're making a literal legalistic point, well, ok but i'm not sure where it gets you. As has been pointed out by Chuck and others, LN owns TM. LN and TM together monopolize the market for live music venues and tickets to live music events which gives them the power to demand a huge cut of merch revenues to which they have no legitimate claim on top of all their other monopolistic, anti-consumer actions/policies.

LN/TM is a bad actor, a bad corporate citizen in the current lingo, which makes its money by exercising monopoly power to screw artists and consumers and to some extent non-affiliated venues as well.
it's not that complicated.

ticketmaster is in the business of selling tickets. live nation is in the business of booking bands at venues, where those bands sell merch.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by tinnitus photography »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:41 am
tinnitus photography wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:44 am
beantownbubba wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:30 pm
Do you seriously believe that their various markets reflect real transactions between real arms length people?
sorry to come back to this but i'm not sure what you mean here, btb. that the price is somehow manipulated by TM and it's not a true market price?
YES. That's exactly what I mean. And it's been proven. TM is known to have NOT to put some tickets on sale and then put them DIRECTLY on to their resale site as if they have been legitimately purchased and are being resold by arm's length customers. And that's just one scam that we know about.
again though, they can put any price for a ticket they want; if people don't think it's worth it, they won't buy it.

with dynamic pricing now in play, can you show me a link where TM has done what you said (hold back tickets from the general sale and sell them via Stubhub et al)?

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Zip City »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:39 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:41 am
tinnitus photography wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:44 am


sorry to come back to this but i'm not sure what you mean here, btb. that the price is somehow manipulated by TM and it's not a true market price?
YES. That's exactly what I mean. And it's been proven. TM is known to have NOT to put some tickets on sale and then put them DIRECTLY on to their resale site as if they have been legitimately purchased and are being resold by arm's length customers. And that's just one scam that we know about.
again though, they can put any price for a ticket they want; if people don't think it's worth it, they won't buy it.

with dynamic pricing now in play, can you show me a link where TM has done what you said (hold back tickets from the general sale and sell them via Stubhub et al)?
They don't sell them on StubHub, they sell them on the TM secondary platform.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by tinnitus photography »

Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:12 am
tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:39 pm
beantownbubba wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:41 am


YES. That's exactly what I mean. And it's been proven. TM is known to have NOT to put some tickets on sale and then put them DIRECTLY on to their resale site as if they have been legitimately purchased and are being resold by arm's length customers. And that's just one scam that we know about.
again though, they can put any price for a ticket they want; if people don't think it's worth it, they won't buy it.

with dynamic pricing now in play, can you show me a link where TM has done what you said (hold back tickets from the general sale and sell them via Stubhub et al)?
They don't sell them on StubHub, they sell them on the TM secondary platform.
can someone point me to a link that shows TM deliberately held back tickets and then put them up for secondary market sale, in the era when dynamic pricing is in play?

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Zip City »

tinnitus photography wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:05 pm
Zip City wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:12 am
tinnitus photography wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:39 pm


again though, they can put any price for a ticket they want; if people don't think it's worth it, they won't buy it.

with dynamic pricing now in play, can you show me a link where TM has done what you said (hold back tickets from the general sale and sell them via Stubhub et al)?
They don't sell them on StubHub, they sell them on the TM secondary platform.
can someone point me to a link that shows TM deliberately held back tickets and then put them up for secondary market sale, in the era when dynamic pricing is in play?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ticket ... -1.4828535
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by tinnitus photography »

fair enough, i stand corrected!

i also didn't realize that dynamic pricing was rolled out way back in 2011; it took a while for people to really start grousing about it.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by brettac1 »

brettac1 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:15 pm
As kind of an answer to the "what other way can this be done" question, I got an email this AM to register to have an opportunity to buy Billy Strings tickets for Red Rocks using their "Fair AXS" system.

It's a lottery and if you are selected, they let you know the day before tickets go on sale. It doesn't guarantee you will get them but that you will have an opportunity to buy up to four tickets, that you are an actual human, etc. Also they tell you what the tickets fucking *cost* right when you are registering. What a concept!
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

I watched the Howard Stern interview with Springsteen. It was great. I think it's on HBO. Pretty long & Bruce played a lot on acoustic & piano. Wide range of topics. Definitely worth catching.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

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Do you ever get tired of singin' songs
Like all your pain is just another fuckin' sing along?

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

More on the big bad meanies from LIveNation and Ticketmaster from a musician's perspective:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/opin ... Position=1
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chuckrh
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

If anyone is interested, you can pre-order cds of the entire upcoming tour at a discount. It's too rich for my blood but if the show I see is good I'll order that one later. Anyway, here's the link:

https://live.brucespringsteen.net/packa ... m_content=

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

chuckrh wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:26 pm
If anyone is interested, you can pre-order cds of the entire upcoming tour at a discount. It's too rich for my blood but if the show I see is good I'll order that one later. Anyway, here's the link:

https://live.brucespringsteen.net/packa ... m_content=
I've been wondering about the level of obsession this implies about someone who would buy this package and how that compares to my own obsessions which are, of course, perfectly normal. THIRTY versions of 80-90% the same concert, w/out visuals? The price isn't terrible on a "per unit" basis, but still, $300 is $300, at least to me.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

beantownbubba wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:41 pm
chuckrh wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:26 pm
If anyone is interested, you can pre-order cds of the entire upcoming tour at a discount. It's too rich for my blood but if the show I see is good I'll order that one later. Anyway, here's the link:

https://live.brucespringsteen.net/packa ... m_content=
I've been wondering about the level of obsession this implies about someone who would buy this package and how that compares to my own obsessions which are, of course, perfectly normal. THIRTY versions of 80-90% the same concert, w/out visuals? The price isn't terrible on a "per unit" basis, but still, $300 is $300, at least to me.
Ya, I wouldn't spend it. Probably would drop $20 for the show I'm going to.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Zip City »

Ryan Adams just released a track-for-track remake of Nebraska (if that does anything for you)
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Re: the Springsteen thread

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So…

Back months ago Beaverdamsfinlaw asked me about going to Springsteen in Atlanta tomorrow. I declined but only because I work in a school system and have only two personal days like a teacher. I was saving my days for my days for Homecoming.

Beaverdamsfinlaw made plans with his son and brother-in-law.

Well the brother-in-law now has the flu and can’t go. I’m planning to go and really hoping that work is cancelled tomorrow.

I’ve never seen Springsteen…

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

Beaverdam wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:16 pm
So…

Back months ago Beaverdamsfinlaw asked me about going to Springsteen in Atlanta tomorrow. I declined but only because I work in a school system and have only two personal days like a teacher. I was saving my days for my days for Homecoming.

Beaverdamsfinlaw made plans with his son and brother-in-law.

Well the brother-in-law now has the flu and can’t go. I’m planning to go and really hoping that work is cancelled tomorrow.

I’ve never seen Springsteen…
Do it! First night in Tampa the setlist was awesome. 28 songs over 2 hours 45 minutes. I found a live feed on Facebook & saw half the show. Backstreets>Because the Night>She's the One at one point. Don't get much better than that!

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

Here's the setlist from Tampa:
1. No Surrender
2. Ghosts
3. Prove it All Night
4. Letter to You
5. Promised Land
6. Out in the Street
7. Candys Room
8. Kittys Back
9. Brilliant Disguise
10. Nightshift
11. Don’t Play That Song
12. The E Street Shuffle
13. Johnny 99
14: Last Man Standing
15: House of a Thousand Guitars
16. Backstreets
17: Because the Night
18. She’s the One
19: Wrecking Ball
20. The Rising
21: Badlands

Encore:
22: Burnin’ Train
23: Born to Run
24: Rosalita (Come out Tonight)
25: Glory Days
26: Dancing in the Dark
27: Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out
28: I’ll See You in my Dreams (solo acoustic)

I'm seeing Bruce on Feb 27. Pretty excited after seeing this!

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Beaverdam »

I forgot to mention that we’ve had ice here so I haven’t worked since Monday. Temperatures are still cold, and we have some ice, and I’m hoping that work is cancelled tomorrow.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

chuckrh wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:40 pm
Here's the setlist from Tampa:
1. No Surrender
2. Ghosts
3. Prove it All Night
4. Letter to You
5. Promised Land
6. Out in the Street
7. Candys Room
8. Kittys Back
9. Brilliant Disguise
10. Nightshift
11. Don’t Play That Song
12. The E Street Shuffle
13. Johnny 99
14: Last Man Standing
15: House of a Thousand Guitars
16. Backstreets
17: Because the Night
18. She’s the One
19: Wrecking Ball
20. The Rising
21: Badlands

Encore:
22: Burnin’ Train
23: Born to Run
24: Rosalita (Come out Tonight)
25: Glory Days
26: Dancing in the Dark
27: Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out
28: I’ll See You in my Dreams (solo acoustic)

I'm seeing Bruce on Feb 27. Pretty excited after seeing this!
Stellar set list

I would prefer that the 19 piece band (that's actual not exaggeration) be downsized a bit though
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

Image

:shock:
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by chuckrh »

Clams wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:45 pm
Image

:shock:
I agree. I generally prefer more stripped down bands unless it's for something like "The Wall". I saw the Stones once in 1978 & twice in 1981 when they were more bare bones. It was way better than when they came back in 1989. It was kind of a hard left turn toward Vegas. I'd rather hear Little Steven's howling backup vocals than a big group of singers. Nonetheless, the band sounded great last night. I was lucky to find a live feed on Facebook (without having to sign up for Facebook) & saw the last half of the show. The guitars were way up in the mix which hasn't always been the case with Bruce. One of the things I liked about the 2016 River tour was it was pretty stripped down. I'm sure the setlists will change nightly. The only "warhorse" that was missing was "Thunder Road". The setlist was a nice mix of old & new with some surprises. Maybe because it was the first night but there were no "audibles" or requests. In 2016 the band did the River & then another 2 hours of nothing but requests & audibles. The show was just a few ticks under 4 hours. Don't think he'll do that this tour but I wouldn't be surprised to see some shows go a little over 3 hours once they get rolling. Roy Bittan blew up "Dancing in the Dark" last night & you could see the band laughing about it.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Great set list and an encouraging beginning. I am clearly going to be faced with a hard decision about how much I will be willing to pay to see the Boss one more time. The closer the Boston date gates the more I will want to be there and I'm willing to pay more than face. But I'm not willing to pay 4 figures to sit in the nosebleeds. We'll see...

I like horn sections. I like backup singers. I don't have an ideal size of band in mind, as long as it all sounds good and as long as Nils gets some space to rip. I'm assuming he's not going to do any gymnastics while playing.

I'm sure the set lists will change but it will be interesting to see how much. And some of the shows will no doubt be longer but I'd be surprised if any approach 4 hours. I guess "warhorse" is in the ear of the beholder, but I'd consider "Spirit in the Night," "Jungleland," "Hungry Heart" and "Adam Raised a Cain" to be among them along w/ at least 1 of "Independence Day." and "The River" before even getting to any of the classic covers that have been more or less staples over the years. Particularly pleased to see "Kitty's Back" on the list and I hope it was an old style extended workout version.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Beaverdam »

I would love to hear Highway Patrolman.

I always knew of Bruce, but Beaverdamsfinlaw made me a fan, but I was just reminded Beaverdamsfinlaw has never seen Bruce…prior to tonight.

We’re leaving for Atlanta in a few minutes!

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