the Springsteen thread

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Given to Fly
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Given to Fly »

Clams wrote:I don't have the DVD but I did see a show on Palladium where they showed highlights of all the bands at that Hyde Park festival. I think I saw Jungleland and one or two others. It was good but everything about the concert was just too "big." The stage was huge, with stairs and risers, etc. To me, there's just no intimacy when the band members are playing their instruments 50 yards apart and the front row is 10 or 15 yards from the stage. I love Bruce as much as anyone, but that dvd just isn't for me.


Kinda what I was thinkin. I'm sure I'll see it somewhere down the road...

I did enjoy the Live at Barcelona dvd from a few years back. Fun show for a "modern day Bruce". Now that I think about it, that was more than a few years back. ?

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

Given to Fly wrote:
Clams wrote:I don't have the DVD but I did see a show on Palladium where they showed highlights of all the bands at that Hyde Park festival. I think I saw Jungleland and one or two others. It was good but everything about the concert was just too "big." The stage was huge, with stairs and risers, etc. To me, there's just no intimacy when the band members are playing their instruments 50 yards apart and the front row is 10 or 15 yards from the stage. I love Bruce as much as anyone, but that dvd just isn't for me.


Kinda what I was thinkin. I'm sure I'll see it somewhere down the road...

I did enjoy the Live at Barcelona dvd from a few years back. Fun show for a "modern day Bruce". Now that I think about it, that was more than a few years back. ?


That Barcelona show is GREAT.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Slipkid42 »

Clams wrote:

BTW - that thing about the jewish girls... so true.


Yeah, at the U of Md, where I went to school; all of my J.A.P. friends (of which I had quite a few) would always quiz me. Did you know So & So was Jewish? As if people of every race and religion hadn't contributed their fair share of noteworthy achievements. I would usually remind them that I was a flamin' Irish alcoholic, and that was special, too.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Iowan »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfBoWZv0oM

Most underrated Boss tune. Especially great version.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Slipkid42 wrote:Clams wrote:

BTW - that thing about the jewish girls... so true.


As if people of every race and religion hadn't contributed their fair share of noteworthy achievements.


I can't speak for your JAP friends but i'm guessing u may have missed the point there, slip.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by dime in the gutter »

beantownbubba wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:Clams wrote:

BTW - that thing about the jewish girls... so true.


As if people of every race and religion hadn't contributed their fair share of noteworthy achievements.


I can't speak for your JAP friends but i'm guessing u may have missed the point there, slip.

this whole exchange was brilliant. including slip's entire post. outstanding.

thank ya'll.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Slipkid42 »

dime - my pleasure, it's the least I can do for all the interesting reading that you, and others on this board, have provided me.

beantownbubba wrote:
I can't speak for your JAP friends but i'm guessing u may have missed the point there, slip.


Maybe bubba, the glaringly obvious has often eluded my detection. I can't remember my classmates and I, at St. Marys' ever getting all revved up just 'coz we heard that this actor, or that hot comic was Catholic, though. In fact, I don't recall ever much discussing peoples' religion as it applied to their accomplishment. The exception was JFK, who we as Catholics revered. We would probably not have even known this tidbit, but for its political ramifications.
So, MY point was that you never hear people going around saying "Didja know that Muddy Waters was a Methodist?" or; "I heard that Sally Field was a Quaker." It only seemed to matter to Jewish people. I wondered about it for awhile, but chalked it up as a quirk of society. Maybe the persecution that they feel is their birthright, causes them to high five, whenever they hear that one of their flock has done good. It's the same principle, I guess, that some black people adhere to. Never in their lives were they shackled, but still they feel the sting of oppression. I meet less folks like that as time goes by. Anyway, tribes and religions have been persecuted since time immemorial. Genocide has existed on every continent (even right here in the good ole U.S. of A.). Once upon a time they fed Christians to the lions. There used to be a wonderful, advanced Mayan civilization that was all but obliterated by greed. Idi Amin wreaked havok, but much of Africa is topsy turvy with wholesale slaughter going on right now today. That the the Jewish people could feel MORE persecuted than any other poor schmoes of society just seemed odd to me. If indeed that was why they got their jollies uncovering hidden Jew stars. I never could make heads or tails of the Jewish people, so I ended up marrying one of those J.A.P. girls. Some 30 odd years later, I still haven't gotten to the crux of it.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by joelle »

Slipkid42 wrote:
Maybe bubba, the glaringly obvious has often eluded my detection. I can't remember my classmates and I, at St. Marys' ever getting all revved up just 'coz we heard that this actor, or that hot comic was Catholic, though. In fact, I don't recall ever much discussing peoples' religion as it applied to their accomplishment. The exception was JFK, who we as Catholics revered. We would probably not have even known this tidbit, but for its political ramifications.
So, MY point was that you never hear people going around saying "Didja know that Muddy Waters was a Methodist?" or; "I heard that Sally Field was a Quaker." It only seemed to matter to Jewish people. I wondered about it for awhile, but chalked it up as a quirk of society. Maybe the persecution that they feel is their birthright, causes them to high five, whenever they hear that one of their flock has done good. It's the same principle, I guess, that some black people adhere to. Never in their lives were they shackled, but still they feel the sting of oppression. I meet less folks like that as time goes by. Anyway, tribes and religions have been persecuted since time immemorial. Genocide has existed on every continent (even right here in the good ole U.S. of A.). Once upon a time they fed Christians to the lions. There used to be a wonderful, advanced Mayan civilization that was all but obliterated by greed. Idi Amin wreaked havok, but much of Africa is topsy turvy with wholesale slaughter going on right now today. That the the Jewish people could feel MORE persecuted than any other poor schmoes of society just seemed odd to me. If indeed that was why they got their jollies uncovering hidden Jew stars. I never could make heads or tails of the Jewish people, so I ended up marrying one of those J.A.P. girls. Some 30 odd years later, I still haven't gotten to the crux of it.


i never read the long posts. can't usually do it.
but i did this one.
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loved it. all true.
aces.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by sactochris »

At this point isn't the term J.A.P. considered a slur?
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by joelle »

sactochris wrote:At this point isn't the term J.A.P. considered a slur?

yeah,
if talkin about the japanese
not jewish american princesses.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Slipkid42 »

sactochris wrote:
At this point isn't the term J.A.P. considered a slur?


I always felt it was a term of endearment. Those babes seemed to take pride in it. It would be like some Brit calling me a Yank. Even though I hate the Yankees (team not people), I would still take some pride in that distinction.

Sorry about this thread hijackery. I will try to steer my end of the discussion back to the Boss.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by one belt loop »

beantownbubba wrote:
Don't have access to all my music at the moment, but the most legendary show of that '78 period is probably the September show from Passaic NJ broadcast on WNEW-FM in NYC and a number of other east coast stations. I forget the name of the boot, but can look it up when i get home. Unfortunately, i was only a radio listener for that show but i still remember exactly where I was, who i was with, etc. Just incredible, and that was merely on the radio!

And yes, WWCD, i do know i'm old.



WWCD gave me a copy of that boot, actually. And I'm sure he envies the hell out of you.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by one belt loop »

Clams wrote:
Slipkid42 wrote:I remember hearing Rosalita 1st. It was like Blood, Sweat & Tears had taken amphetamines. Every corpuscle in my body was vibrating. I knew he would be huge before Rolling Stone proclaimed him the next big thing (not that it was rocket science). Songs like For You (that ragged, jagged melody she still clings to me like a leach) & 4th of July (Sandy, the fireworks are hailin' over Little Eden tonight), set the stage for the brilliance that would follow. Born to Run came out and cemented Rolling Stone's no-brainer 'prophesy'. Jungleland and Backstreets and the title tune were instant classics. Thunder Road might just be the greatest Rock song of all time (in a field of umpteen dozen contenders). All the chicks loved him, esp. the Jewish girls I knew. A couple of them told me that their mothers dug him too, 'coz he was Jewish (which he isn't).
The Boss exceeded even the loftiest of expectations His diverse catalog is filled with many of Rock's juiciest nuggets (and its most tender moments). He is truly one of the pillars of music (rock, or otherwise). He seems like he enjoys himself every time he goes out there. He can still bring that urgency. Thanks for standing up when they told you to sit down, Bruce.



BTW - that thing about the jewish girls... so true.



What's not to like?
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by one belt loop »

joelle wrote:
sactochris wrote:At this point isn't the term J.A.P. considered a slur?

yeah,
if talkin about the japanese
not jewish american princesses.



It is a complete and total insult, actually.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

one belt loop wrote:
joelle wrote:
sactochris wrote:At this point isn't the term J.A.P. considered a slur?

yeah,
if talkin about the japanese
not jewish american princesses.



It is a complete and total insult, actually.


Well...
I'd say it depends on
(a) who's saying it
(b) to whom
(c) and why
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by one belt loop »

Clams wrote:
one belt loop wrote:
It is a complete and total insult, actually.


Well...
I'd say it depends on
(a) who's saying it
(b) to whom
(c) and why


I guess that's true of many epithets. Like 'nigger' and 'queer'.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by The Black Canary »

:D
Last edited by The Black Canary on Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by joelle »

one belt loop wrote:
Clams wrote:
one belt loop wrote:
It is a complete and total insult, actually.


Well...
I'd say it depends on
(a) who's saying it
(b) to whom
(c) and why


I guess that's true of many epithets. Like 'nigger' and 'queer'.

no way. absolutely no way
is saying 'jewish american princess' on the same level as 'nigger' or 'queer'. no way.
while you may find it derogatory, and for that i would apologize and i will be more careful in what i post ( as i have never uttered the term JAP in my life).
but the two terms you mentioned were meant to be hurtful, excluding, cruel and degrading.
i do not feel the same tones or implications are attached to the name JAP.
i can think of many slang terms for lots of women ( and guys alike) that might be stereotypical, but are not said with malice.
i do not want to list them,
because in all seriousness
i do not want to offend anyone.
very truthfully obl,
i am sincerely sorry if i misspoke about something i am not completely familiar with.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Slipkid42 »

Clams wrote:
Well...
I'd say it depends on
(a) who's saying it
(b) to whom
(c) and why


(a) Jewish guys, Jewish girls, non-Jewish guys, non-Jewish girls
(b) to each other, usually without derogatory connotations
(c) because it helped to define a certain group of girls/women who were a bit flamboyant with their makeup, dressed like the Real Housewives of New Jersey, had control of their hair (as opposed to the hippie chicks [hope that's not a slur]), and sometimes wore bling (before it was called that). Were they superficial and vapid? Some were. Most of the many I met were pretty sharp cookies. When we would bandy the term around it was in reference to fashion as much as anything else, as in:
"Risa's lookin' a little Jappy these days" Now, if you liked that look then it was a compliment. If you liked your women to have a more natural look, then it probably was not a compliment. The same sort of fashion critique happens in the back of Us magazine every week. My new modest goal is to live to see a time less PC
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by one belt loop »

I'm not sure how old you are, but when it emerged, it was never a complimentary term. I'm not anywhere near what you describe, but, yeah, it's an offensive term. Maybe because it singles out Jewish girls when maybe it's just talking about a certain type of girl, period.

Though Frank Zappa made me laugh.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Fool No Where »

Iowan wrote:Most underrated Boss tune.


I love to "scold" Mrs. FNW for letting out one of her bored sighs.

Oh and, side two

Born to Run
She's the One
Meeting Across the River
Jungleland
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

Props to FNW for getting us back on track.



Iowan wrote:Most underrated Boss tune.

Ties That Bind



Most overrated: NYC Serenade. Not sure I've ever listened to all 10 minutes.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

My perspective: "JAP" started out as a cutesy, mostly affectionate description of a certain type of teenager/young woman and a certain type of environment. The cultural reference was easily understood and the jokes were mostly warm. That the subculture described could also apply to many non-Jewish women was not especially relevant. But by approximately the early '80's, the jokes and attitude had turned remarkably, even a little frighteningly, vicious. My personal non-scientific assessment at the time was that it was about 80% misogyny, 10% self-loathing and 10% anti-semitism (given license by the other factors). In any case, the whole thing started getting out of hand, and again in my personal viewpoint, it was by then pretty much as nasty as terms like "nigger" and "queer" although w/ less history behind it. In reaction, use of the term was pretty much stamped out, at least in the places where and among the people w/ whom i hang out. It became unacceptable in the same way as the "n word" and for pretty similar reasons. I virtually never hear either term anymore. I didn't take offense at its use here because i didn't think it was being used offensively, but i was surprised to see it and would say that it's anachronistic at best.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Clams wrote:Props to FNW for getting us back on track.



Iowan wrote:Most underrated Boss tune.

Ties That Bind



Most overrated: NYC Serenade. Not sure I've ever listened to all 10 minutes.


Can a song be overrated if nobody rates it highly?
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Slipkid42 »

Most underrated Bruce song - The Promised Land
Most overrated Bruce song - 10th Avenue Freezeout

It seems I've opened up a can of worms here. obl, I'm 53 years young, and went to the U of MD '75-'77 (didn't graduate). I grew up in rural So. MD. where the ratio of Jews to anyone else was about 1 in 8,000 (even today it's about 1 in 8,000). I didn't really encounter Jewish people till I went to Maryland, where probably 55% of my dorm were Jews. I'd heard they were a miserly people, but I found out right off that was stereotypical bullshit. Even though I was a redneck hippie, they made me feel as if I had grown up right there with them in Pikesville (a Jewish community in Baltimore). Some of my closest buddies to this very day, are the Jewish friends I met back then (including ultimately my closest friend, my wife). '75 is when I first heard the term J.A.P. I don't really know if it existed much before that 'coz like I say that was when I started having conversations with Jews.
I did hear it used occasionally to denote someone who was too materialistic; but in that respect is it any worse than Zappa's' similar take on the Valley Girls? Much more often we used it to describe a certain look the girls who we knew were Jewish had. It was a dressed for success look that eschewed the maxi-skirt, hair 1/2 way down their backs look that the hippie chicks preferred. Plenty of the Jewish girls I knew were these hippie chicks, and just as many were Jappy. We all got along, and none of the girls I knew ever took umbrage (at least not outwardly so); if I told them they were looking mighty Jappy. It seemed to me that they took pride in this distinction. Like they were part of the in-crowd. I find labels like that to be colorful slices of Americana. I guess I could be wrong, as I am thoughtless and callous on occasion (just ask my wife). If my use of the term J.A.P. has offended you or anyone else, then I do sincerely apologize. I shall refrain from using it.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by shuffle »

beantownbubba wrote:
Clams wrote:Props to FNW for getting us back on track.



Iowan wrote:Most underrated Boss tune.

Ties That Bind



Most overrated: NYC Serenade. Not sure I've ever listened to all 10 minutes.


Can a song be overrated if nobody rates it highly?

Lots of people I "know" over the internet loves it, and has it among their favourite Springsteen tunes. I wouldn't go that far but it's a really good song, but a bit overlong.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Iowan »

Clams wrote:Props to FNW for getting us back on track.



Iowan wrote:Most underrated Boss tune.

Ties That Bind



Most overrated: NYC Serenade. Not sure I've ever listened to all 10 minutes.


Ties That Bind is a great choice.

Am I the only one who thinks Disc 1 of The River is vastly superior to Disc 2 or is that a commonly held belief? I've never really frequented any Boss boards.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Clams »

Iowan wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Disc 1 of The River is vastly superior to Disc 2 or is that a commonly held belief? I've never really frequented any Boss boards.


I love The River and I think I like both records equally. Not sure that there's a common belief about one record being better than the other. The common theme I've seen on the bruce boards is that it's a little too sprawling and tries to be too many different things (BTCD?). Or maybe it just had the misfortune of following up Born to Run and Darkness which are both very focused, thematic records. That's not my opinion by the way. It was the first Bruce record I listened to and to this day it's sometimes my favorite in his catalogue.
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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by Iowan »

Slipkid42 wrote:Most underrated Bruce song - The Promised Land
Most overrated Bruce song - 10th Avenue Freezeout

It seems I've opened up a can of worms here. obl, I'm 53 years young, and went to the U of MD '75-'77 (didn't graduate). I grew up in rural So. MD. where the ratio of Jews to anyone else was about 1 in 8,000 (even today it's about 1 in 8,000). I didn't really encounter Jewish people till I went to Maryland, where probably 55% of my dorm were Jews. I'd heard they were a miserly people, but I found out right off that was stereotypical bullshit. Even though I was a redneck hippie, they made me feel as if I had grown up right there with them in Pikesville (a Jewish community in Baltimore). Some of my closest buddies to this very day, are the Jewish friends I met back then (including ultimately my closest friend, my wife). '75 is when I first heard the term J.A.P. I don't really know if it existed much before that 'coz like I say that was when I started having conversations with Jews.
I did hear it used occasionally to denote someone who was too materialistic; but in that respect is it any worse than Zappa's' similar take on the Valley Girls? Much more often we used it to describe a certain look the girls who we knew were Jewish had. It was a dressed for success look that eschewed the maxi-skirt, hair 1/2 way down their backs look that the hippie chicks preferred. Plenty of the Jewish girls I knew were these hippie chicks, and just as many were Jappy. We all got along, and none of the girls I knew ever took umbrage (at least not outwardly so); if I told them they were looking mighty Jappy. It seemed to me that they took pride in this distinction. Like they were part of the in-crowd. I find labels like that to be colorful slices of Americana. I guess I could be wrong, as I am thoughtless and callous on occasion (just ask my wife). If my use of the term J.A.P. has offended you or anyone else, then I do sincerely apologize. I shall refrain from using it.


Few songs make me want to seriously dance. 10th Ave Freeze Out does. I'll leave it at that.

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Re: the Springsteen thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Oh yeah, shuffle, u reminded me of some "interesting" times i had on the backstreets board a while back. You're right, at least some really loud people really like "serenade" lol.

I'm w/ you, Iowan: Disc 1 >> Disc 2 of The River. A lot of the disc 2 tracks are great live (e.g. Cadillac Ranch, I'm a Rocker, Ramrod) but i don't think it holds a candle to disc 1.
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