Music and Internet Ethics

[Mundane Mayhem]

I am finally making the jump from Spotify to Tidal based on the latter’s new payout structure that directs more of my money to the artists I personally listened to (and has per-stream rates approximately three times as high in the first place, as best anyone can tell).

Info here: https://tidal.com/formusic

Did you know that today artists are paid from a massive royalty “pool”, based on the aggregate listening patterns across all subscribers for the month? That means if someone else streams more than you do, they influence who gets your royalty shares. We think it’s time to relook at how these are calculated so artists can finally earn what they deserve.

Starting in January 2022, we will include a fan-centered royalties approach to paying artists within our HiFi Plus tier. This fairer take on royalty payments ensures that your monthly subscription goes directly to your own favorite artists as opposed to the industry accepted method of allocating it to the most popular artists.

All of your streaming activity will be visible in your My Activity feed so you can see exactly how your streams add up month-to-month. We think transparency is key to creating a more fair and equitable industry for artists and fans. And, this is just the first step when it comes to your streaming data.

[Mundane Mayhem]

I am finally making the jump from Spotify to Tidal based on the latter’s new payout structure that directs more of my money to the artists I personally listened to (and has per-stream rates approximately three times as high in the first place, as best anyone can tell).

Info here: https://tidal.com/formusic

Did you know that today artists are paid from a massive royalty “pool”, based on the aggregate listening patterns across all subscribers for the month? That means if someone else streams more than you do, they influence who gets your royalty shares. We think it’s time to relook at how these are calculated so artists can finally earn what they deserve.

Starting in January 2022, we will include a fan-centered royalties approach to paying artists within our HiFi Plus tier. This fairer take on royalty payments ensures that your monthly subscription goes directly to your own favorite artists as opposed to the industry accepted method of allocating it to the most popular artists.

All of your streaming activity will be visible in your My Activity feed so you can see exactly how your streams add up month-to-month. We think transparency is key to creating a more fair and equitable industry for artists and fans. And, this is just the first step when it comes to your streaming data.

Check me out. Trendsetter.

[beantownbubba]

Check me out. Trendsetter.

I assume you're talking about a change in policy at some other streaming service? Or a move of their catalogs by Neil Young, Joni Mitchell et al.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Check me out. Trendsetter.

I assume you're talking about a change in policy at some other streaming service? Or a move of their catalogs by Neil Young, Joni Mitchell et al.

I was just amused that I can't join the current trend of rage-quitting Spotify for its dodgy ethics, since I quit Spotify a month or so before the firestorm began. But yes, Tidal made some changes to payout structure that are notably more artist-friendly (on top of just paying more per stream to begin with).

It's fascinating to watch the artist community try to sustain the momentum Neil and Joni started in response to Joe Rogan being a schmuck, but redirect that energy toward a conversation about the ethics and economics of streaming more broadly.

[tinnitus photography]

i was gonna rage quit over Ek's investment in that military AI company but finally got around to moving over to Qobuz last week or so.

[Clams]

I'm way more bothered by Spotify's refusal to pay artists fairly than I am about the Joe Rogan thing. Then again, I really really like using Spotify. So I'm kinda torn at the moment.

[Mundane Mayhem]

I'm way more bothered by Spotify's refusal to pay artists fairly than I am about the Joe Rogan thing.

Same. Honestly, the thing I miss the most about Spotify is the collaborative playlist feature. Everything else is pretty much the same on Tidal (with a few extra app crashes thrown in).

Soundiiz was a godsend when I was making the transition. Definitely worth the $4 or so it cost for a monthly subscription.

[Clams]

I was just amused that I can't join the current trend of rage-quitting Spotify for its dodgy ethics, since I quit Spotify a month or so before the firestorm began. But yes, Tidal made some changes to payout structure that are notably more artist-friendly (on top of just paying more per stream to begin with).

Hey Mundane (or anyone else using Tidal), I just started a 30 day trial with Tidal so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Was converting from Spotify a headache and how did you transfer playlists? How's Tidal's podcast lineup compare with Spotify? Can you tell a difference in audio quality? Does the mobile app work well? (Iv'e heard there might be problems using it with Carplay). Are you using the Hifi plan or Hifi Plus??

Thanks...

[pearlbeer]

I was just amused that I can't join the current trend of rage-quitting Spotify for its dodgy ethics, since I quit Spotify a month or so before the firestorm began. But yes, Tidal made some changes to payout structure that are notably more artist-friendly (on top of just paying more per stream to begin with).

Hey Mundane (or anyone else using Tidal), I just started a 30 day trial with Tidal so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Was converting from Spotify a headache and how did you transfer playlists? How's Tidal's podcast lineup compare with Spotify? Can you tell a difference in audio quality? Does the mobile app work well? (Iv'e heard there might be problems using it with Carplay). Are you using the Hifi plan or Hifi Plus??

Thanks...

I'm on Spotify as well, and not looking to jump ship right away, but seems like I read good things about Apple Music as well...

[tinnitus photography]

Qobuz (hi-res fidelity) + Soundiiz (playlist transfers) + Overcast (for podcasts) = the goddamn win

[Mundane Mayhem]

I was just amused that I can't join the current trend of rage-quitting Spotify for its dodgy ethics, since I quit Spotify a month or so before the firestorm began. But yes, Tidal made some changes to payout structure that are notably more artist-friendly (on top of just paying more per stream to begin with).

Hey Mundane (or anyone else using Tidal), I just started a 30 day trial with Tidal so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Was converting from Spotify a headache and how did you transfer playlists? How's Tidal's podcast lineup compare with Spotify? Can you tell a difference in audio quality? Does the mobile app work well? (Iv'e heard there might be problems using it with Carplay). Are you using the Hifi plan or Hifi Plus??

Thanks...

Soundiiz made the transfer process a breeze. The libraries are comparable. At one point I had some .csv files that showed how many tracks were missing, but I think well over 98% of what I had on Spotify was available on Tidal.

Tidal's podcast lineup sucks. Back to the Apple Podcast app for that.

The app is...worse than Spotify. No two ways about it. It works fine for the most part, but occasionally it will just stop playback mid-track and force me to close the app and restart. So far, that's always worked to fix any issues. I've used CarPlay a little bit and similar story. Not as smooth as Spotify, but mostly acceptable so far.

I'm on HiFi Plus because that's where the new artist-friendly features live. So far so good. I'm hoping they got a little influx of subscribers from this brouhaha and can put a little bit of that money toward some R&D and app improvements.

Sound quality...eh. Most of my streaming isn't on equipment where I'd really expect to notice a difference. I tried some A/B testing over Bluetooth a little while back and honestly couldn't always tell the difference, but depending on equipment your mileage may vary.

[tinnitus photography]

spotify's interface is garbage... surprised they haven't done a complete overhaul of it yet.

[Clams]

Thanks MM, I appreciate the info. My situation is that I have a spotify family account that me, my wife and kids all use. One issue is podcasts, which I don't listen to much but my wife does. Spotify has a ton of them and most of the other streaming services don't have strong pod lineups. I suppose Apple's podcast app would be competitive with Spotify on that front (and it's free). And podcasts are just one of like 10 issues that need to be considered. There's just so many pros/cons/moving parts to switching from something you've been deeply immersed in for so long.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Thanks MM, I appreciate the info. My situation is that I have a spotify family account that me, my wife and kids all use. One issue is podcasts, which I don't listen to much but my wife does. Spotify has a ton of them and most of the other streaming services don't have strong pod lineups. I suppose Apple's podcast app would be competitive with Spotify on that front (and it's free). And podcasts are just one of like 10 issues that need to be considered. There's just so many pros/cons/moving parts to switching from something you've been deeply immersed in for so long.

Yeah, I moved my wife over from a Spotify Family plan, and then used the remaining four Tidal family plan accounts for my parents and siblings. We were all able to use one Soundiiz account to move stuff over by linking and unlinking our various Spotify and Tidal accounts.

[Mundane Mayhem]

Qobuz (hi-res fidelity) + Soundiiz (playlist transfers) + Overcast (for podcasts) = the goddamn win

I’m giving Qobuz a trial right now alongside Tidal. Qobuz’s catalog seems a little weaker, but what I’m reading about Tidal’s Hi-Res shenanigans (FLAC not available if they have MQA for a given track) is making me reassess my options.

[Clams]

Qobuz (hi-res fidelity) + Soundiiz (playlist transfers) + Overcast (for podcasts) = the goddamn win

I’m giving Qobuz a trial right now alongside Tidal. Qobuz’s catalog seems a little weaker, but what I’m reading about Tidal’s Hi-Res shenanigans (FLAC not available if they have MQA for a given track) is making me reassess my options.

I've unfortunately determined that Spotify is just too good and too convenient and that switching my whole family away from it is just too much damn work. Tidal was glitchy whenever I was away from wifi, so was apple music. As for Qobuz and Soundiiz, I really don't even understand what those are, and I also can't even pronounce them, and it would be torture having to show my wife how they work (plus I would have to take a month to figure them out for myself). So I'm staying put because Spotify is just so damn good and my whole family likes it. I wish Spotify would pay artists as much as they pay Joe Rogan, I really do, but I'll continue to support the artists I like in other ways - buying CD's, going to shows, buying merch, etc. If this makes me unethical or an asshole, so be it, I guess I'll have to live with that.

[cortez the killer]

Qobuz (hi-res fidelity) + Soundiiz (playlist transfers) + Overcast (for podcasts) = the goddamn win

I’m giving Qobuz a trial right now alongside Tidal. Qobuz’s catalog seems a little weaker, but what I’m reading about Tidal’s Hi-Res shenanigans (FLAC not available if they have MQA for a given track) is making me reassess my options.

I've unfortunately determined that Spotify is just too good and too convenient and that switching my whole family away from it is just too much damn work. Tidal was glitchy whenever I was away from wifi, so was apple music. As for Qobuz and Soundiiz, I really don't even understand what those are, and I also can't even pronounce them, and it would be torture having to show my wife how they work (plus I would have to take a month to figure them out for myself). So I'm staying put because Spotify is just so damn good and my whole family likes it. I wish Spotify would pay artists as much as they pay Joe Rogan, I really do, but I'll continue to support the artists I like in other ways - buying CD's, going to shows, buying merch, etc. If this makes me unethical or an asshole, so be it, I guess I'll have to live with that.

Yeah, the Spotify model sucks for the vast majority of recording artists, but I'm in a similar boat as you, Clams. I view Spotify as my "digital download cloud." I buy a shit-ton of vinyl and view Spotify as a way to listen to music when I'm on the go. It's been an incredible resource to discover new music which, in large part, leads to me purchasing LPs, merch and/or going to see a band I discovered on the platform live. Also, when I broached the possibility of switching platforms with my daughters, I saw my life flash before my eyes.

[tinnitus photography]

you guys act like streaming apps are quantum physics.

there's a search button and then you find stuff you want to hear.

[Clams]

you guys act like streaming apps are quantum physics.

there's a search button and then you find stuff you want to hear.

That's funny, good one tinnitus!

[tinnitus photography]

if it takes a month to figure out how use a streaming app, consult your physician.

[Clams]

if it takes a month to figure out how use a streaming app, consult your physician.

For me, for an app that I use multiple times every single day, I like to do a deep dive and try out every single option and function. And that takes me a few weeks. So yeah I'll call my doctor.

[cortez the killer]

[tinnitus photography]

not sure you'll need 3-D glasses Cortez.

off the top of my head, streaming services are used for:

searching/listening to music
seeing associated/RIYL artists
making/sharing playlists or songs
downloading songs for offline use
connecting to other device via bluetooth

am i missing some key piece of functionality? I do cop to not reading the manual. maybe i've been doing it wrong this whole time!

[Mundane Mayhem]

Qobuz (hi-res fidelity) + Soundiiz (playlist transfers) + Overcast (for podcasts) = the goddamn win

I’m giving Qobuz a trial right now alongside Tidal. Qobuz’s catalog seems a little weaker, but what I’m reading about Tidal’s Hi-Res shenanigans (FLAC not available if they have MQA for a given track) is making me reassess my options.

I've unfortunately determined that Spotify is just too good and too convenient and that switching my whole family away from it is just too much damn work. Tidal was glitchy whenever I was away from wifi, so was apple music. As for Qobuz and Soundiiz, I really don't even understand what those are, and I also can't even pronounce them, and it would be torture having to show my wife how they work (plus I would have to take a month to figure them out for myself). So I'm staying put because Spotify is just so damn good and my whole family likes it. I wish Spotify would pay artists as much as they pay Joe Rogan, I really do, but I'll continue to support the artists I like in other ways - buying CD's, going to shows, buying merch, etc. If this makes me unethical or an asshole, so be it, I guess I'll have to live with that.

All fair. As some on the Left like to say, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Or in this case, there is no ethical way to stream. We're all just doing the best we can to balance the various factors with our actual human lives.

Soundiiz is like hiring movers, but for your streaming collection. When we bought our last house, I swore I'd hire movers for our next one. But when we bought a new place in September, goddamned if I wasn't coercing my brother to help me move the California King bed.

"Qobuz" is French for "Spotify."

[Clams]

not sure you'll need 3-D glasses Cortez.

off the top of my head, streaming services are used for:

searching/listening to music
seeing associated/RIYL artists
making/sharing playlists or songs
downloading songs for offline use
connecting to other device via bluetooth

am i missing some key piece of functionality? I do cop to not reading the manual. maybe i've been doing it wrong this whole time!

Keep the glasses on Cortez!

If I'm switching music apps for my whole family, here's some of the stuff that I'll need to figure out:

Are all the obscure artists I listen to on this platform?
Can I download to my devices?
Can I upload local files? If so, how does that work (and where are all those local files I'm gonna need??)
Is the app interface good? And how about the desktop for when I'm at work?
Does it work well on Carplay? On Sonos in my house?
How's the audio quality in all my different listening environments?
How will family members' experience be listening to podcasts on other platforms?
Do I have to redo all my playlists and my wife's?
Will there be family resistance and if so how much?
Probably another 50 things that I'm forgetting at the moment

I don't listen to vinyl. I have tons of CDs but rarely listen to those except once in a blue moon in my car. This means I use spotify for 99.999% of my music and for me that's a pretty big deal. So if I'm trying out a new music app, figuring all these things out will take me a few weeks or maybe a month. It's serious business to me.

[tinnitus photography]

not sure you'll need 3-D glasses Cortez.

off the top of my head, streaming services are used for:

searching/listening to music
seeing associated/RIYL artists
making/sharing playlists or songs
downloading songs for offline use
connecting to other device via bluetooth

am i missing some key piece of functionality? I do cop to not reading the manual. maybe i've been doing it wrong this whole time!

Keep the glasses on Cortez!

If I'm switching music apps for my whole family, here's some of the stuff that I'll need to figure out:

1 - Are all the obscure artists I listen to on this platform?
2 - Can I download to my devices?
3 - Can I upload local files? If so, how does that work (and where are all those local files I'm gonna need??)
4 - Is the app interface good? And how about the desktop for when I'm at work?
5 - Does it work well on Carplay? On Sonos in my house?
6 - How's the audio quality in all my different listening environments?
7 - How will family members' experience be listening to podcasts on other platforms?
8 - Do I have to redo all my playlists and my wife's?
9 - Will there be family resistance and if so how much?
10 - Probably another 50 things that I'm forgetting at the moment

1 - impossible to know without trial and error; Spotify has a deep library but things come and go all the time
2 - yes
3 - only files you purchase via Qobuz
4 - much better than Spotify's imo
5 - i have neither of those but it connects fine to my car via bluetooth and to my home audio streamer via casting
6 - Qobuz smokes Spotify's audio quality, likely the 2nd best thing about the service
7 - not sure why they need to use Spotify to listen a podcast unless the content is exclusive to Spotify
8 - no, you can import via Soundiiz (assuming the tracks are in the library to be transferred to)
9 - they will love you like you've never experienced
10 - all those are better w/ Qobuz too

[Clams]

9 - Will there be family resistance and if so how much?

9 - they will love you like you've never experienced

The point of all this is, it takes me a while to figure shit out.

[pearlbeer]

9 - Will there be family resistance and if so how much?

9 - they will love you like you've never experienced

The point of all this is, it takes me a while to figure shit out.

It's hard getting old.

[beantownbubba]

It's hard getting old.

Possibly consistent w/ dime's observation that things get bigger when you're old.

[Clams]

I posted this in the Heathens FB group and it belongs here as well:

Interesting post on Lawyers Guns & Money today about the prospect of using a "musicians union" to help artists secure a larger and more equitable share of streaming revenue vis a vis the Spotify's and YouTube's of the world. As the post points out there is a historical precedent for such a union (and an actual strike) dating back to when when then-new technologies such as recording studios and terrestrial radio unfairly limited artists' income. While I'm not sure how viable this would be today, I think it's pretty interesting stuff.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/20 ... ian-unions