Tequila Cowboy wrote:The funny thing is that Erd and othesr have posted that they didn't like the pretentiousness and the "High Fidelity" aspect of records stores and, to me, that was the best part about them. I can remember being 18 years old and going in to my local Rose records to buy something my friends were buying and the manager of the store wagging his finger at me and telling me to quit buying shit and then going on a twenty minute rant about the newest punk band or whatever. Changed my life. Could those types occasionally go too far? of course but it was part of the experience. Who does that now? Who tells a young impressionable kid his taste is shit and plays him Two Cow Garage or Glossary or The Hold Steady? Sometimes you could just walk into a store and ask the guy or gal working there what was new and good and they'd stop the music playing and put on something saying "you have GOT to listen to this man!". Where does that come from now? I don't know but to me that's the saddest part.
I've never had anyone tell me my taste in music was shit (at least in a record store). At Wuxtry, I was inquiring about a copy of the original "Radio Free Europe" single on Hibtone Records and the clerk hassled me because I had forgotten the difference between the first and second pressings (without looking it up, I think it has something to do with the address being printed on the outer sleeve). Yes, I like to think I know my R.E.M. pretty well but at that moment I couldn't remember the difference. As far as I'm concerned, actually being helpful would have been to their benefit rather than belittling me. I was planning on dropping some pretty serious cash in there that day but after that I figured my money was better spent across the street at Schoolkids (it was). There's a saying about drawing more flies with honey than with vinegar which I think applies here. If you're going to be an ass to your customers, I'm much less likely to do business with you and am not going to recommend your store to others. Again, I've also had some pleasant shopping experiences there but that wasn't one of them. As far as recommendations, I've gotten plenty at Schoolkids in Raleigh and without a condescending attitude. All that is going to do is piss me off.
By the way, I think this blog entry from Matador Records will help add to the overall conversation, especially since the author has a lot of positive things to say about the current state of independent record stores:
tinnitus photography wrote:i can get by w/o buying books in physical format again, but not music.
strangely enough, i still like newspapers.
Just the opposite. I cancelled the paper the day I bought a computer, but I still buy books. I have never felt the urge to go back and reread a really good newspaper.
This won't be a popular statement, but I think you guys are greatly overstating the number of people that are into vinyl. I know that most of you guys like to buy vinyl (I don't. I prefer to not buy my music on the least convenient format possible, but I mostly listen to music while I'm driving or on my mp3 player when mowing or working) but this is a website dedicated to hard core music fans of a band without a mainstream following. I don't think the enthusiasm for vinyl on this site is representative of the population as a whole. I don't think that you could even say that it is at fad status at this point and I sure don't think that it's likely that a band will come along and make people want to buy high-end stereo equipment to enhance their listening experience. For the majority of people (and this is based off nothing other than personal observation) a song is a song and many can't tell enough difference between a mp3 quality recording and a vinyl version to warrant spending additional money.
Will record stores die? I don't know. I always liked going to music stores. I liked going to Ear X-tacy too, but I always looked through the cd section. I don't think many will survive by catering only to people that buy vinyl records.
mwh wrote:For the majority of people (and this is based off nothing other than personal observation) a song is a song and many can't tell enough difference between a mp3 quality recording and a vinyl version to warrant spending additional money.
I might not always be able to tell the difference between a mp3 and a vinyl (or CD) version but that doesn't change the fact that I know there is a difference.
In regards to vinyl sales (this is from the New York Times via Billboard):
U.S. Vinyl Record Sales May Be 6X Higher Than Soundscan Reports
The jump in vinyl sales - both for audiophiles and for fans who just love physical mementos - is well documented. But the trend may be far bigger than the industry previously believed. “SoundScan only gets about 15%,” Vince Slusarz, the owner of top vinyl manufacturer Gotta Grove told the New York Times.
Here's why:
Last year, 2.8 million vinyl records were sold in the United States, according to Nielsen Soundscan, and sales this year could be 40% higher. But Soundscan uses bar codes to track sales; and, “the majority of the stuff we press, it doesn’t even have a bar code,” according to Slusarz. Add that to the fact that a lot of vinyl records are sold at independent record stores, gigs and on niche web sites and its not hard to see that the vast majority of vinyl sales goes unreported.
If Slusarz 15% estimate is even close to accurate, vinyl sales could top 20 million this year.
All I know is that in my two favorite stores the percentage of space devoted to new vinyl seems to be increasing every month. Yes, they are both specialty shops who cater to the hard core music fan and, in the case of Vintage Vinyl, have customers who travel great distances to patronize the store.
Another thing I have noticed in the past couple of days. Over the weekend I sent links of the Alabama Shakes video with Jay playing keyboards to several dozen people. Many of them are not hardcore music geeks. The response I have been getting is some variation of, "Wow, this is 'real'". I think there is a sense that the music and the culture at large is somehow inauthentic. The general public senses that Lady Gaga, the country music out of Nashville, American Idol and even some of the so-called alternative music is about as authentic as a Kardashian marriage. "Reality" t.v. is bogus. I am really starting to believe that the next big change in music will be some combination of talent and authenticity. There will be some artist -- and it may even be Alabama Shakes -- who is going to blow people's minds. I also think that analog and vinyl has to potential to be closely associated with "authentic" versus digitalized fakery.
Yes, this board is made up of the hard core fans of a decidedly non-mainstream band. But that does not mean that our aesthetic sense is wrong. I spent the entire decade of the 1980's convinced that if the mainstream public could only be exposed to American indie rock it would be huge. I was proven right in 1991. Almost overnight hair metal was a thing of the past. The unfortunate thing is that it came too late for most of the pioneering bands of the indie era.
I have nowhere else to go. There is no demand in the priesthood for elderly drug addicts
I didn't mean to imply that your aesthic sense was wrong. My main issue with not buying vinyl is that it skips in the car. I guess my point is that, while I don't like Nickleback and Lady Gaga and most popular music, music stores make their money off of millions of 14 year old girls buying Beiber songs, not off of a few thousand music connoisseurs buying vinyl records. Record stores that sell just records or mainly records will continue to have a hard time selling a years-old format against current technology.
I also think (unfortunately) the resurgence of vinyl won't be enough to sustain record stores. I don't see it going away anytime soon, but I wouldn't bet against the majority of vinyl sales in the future being sold online (or maybe at live shows?) Like it or not, the future of socializing over music is here, and it's social-networking sites. I think CD's are being phased out, but until the older, less-technologically savvy (no offense) generations that buy CD's (look at the sales numbers for country music cd's) fade out, I doubt all CD manufacturing will cease. It may be marginalized to certain types of music, but country music CD's (Wal Mart/truck stops) and hip-hop albums (go to any barber-shop/convenience store in a predominately black neighborhood) and you may be surprised at the amount of CD's sold; of course they're mostly "unofficial" mixtapes, but many inner-city residents and older, rural-based folk don't have computers and rely on the guy on the corner/gas station to get their music. And that shit ain't soundscanned.
All the local record shops around here have had to either expand their inventory to include head shop-paraphenalia or in the case of Slip Disc, prom dresses (!) to stay afloat.
Kudzu Guillotine wrote:The jump in vinyl sales - both for audiophiles and for fans who just love physical mementos - is well documented. But the trend may be far bigger than the industry previously believed. “SoundScan only gets about 15%,” Vince Slusarz, the owner of top vinyl manufacturer Gotta Grove told the New York Times.
HOLY SHIT!! There can't be that many Vince Slusarz's can there? I used to know a guy named Vince Slusarz, we were friendly mostly via the net for a few years in the 90's. Great guy, excellent taste in music, turned me on to a few bands. Geez, I hope this is him
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
Erdlivz wrote: Customer service is a part of every retail business and this is retail. I'm shocked Ear X-Tacy closed. I felt like they were in tune and ahead of the curve. I always felt welcome there. They understood customer service with their business. Unfortunately some of the stores I visit, customer service seems to be laughable. I'm not knocking all stores. I always preferred SchoolKids over Wuxtry because the guy up front greeted me when I came in and actually picked my brain. There's more to it than putting records in bins and hoping they sell. Just my experience.
That's so true in most of the record stores I go to, especially Tunes in Hoboken or any of the stores in NYC. The hipsters who work there are uninterested and/or can't talk music or make it an inviting place or it's a jack black's character types who act bothered if you ask them to order something. The jobs probably don't pay much so it's no wonder they can't get anyone in there.
Then you have an awesome music fan centric store like Ear-X-tacy go under..
I've been turned off by many a record store clerk who either paid me no attention whatsoever or came off as condescending. Motherfuckers don't know I probably know as much or more about music than they ever will.
Smitty wrote:I've been turned off by many a record store clerk who either paid me no attention whatsoever or came off as condescending. Motherfuckers don't know I probably know as much or more about music than they ever will.
then again, if most of us had that job, how condescending would we be if people came in and asked for awful music...i probably wouldn't be able to hide...but that's DIFFERENT...that comes from an emotional rather than uninterested place..
tinnitus photography wrote:i can get by w/o buying books in physical format again, but not music.
strangely enough, i still like newspapers.
Just the opposite. I cancelled the paper the day I bought a computer, but I still buy books. I have never felt the urge to go back and reread a really good newspaper.
Quick - where's the "like" button?
Matt playing like an evil motherfucker w/ rhythm with a capital MPLAEMWR.
Kudzu Guillotine wrote:The jump in vinyl sales - both for audiophiles and for fans who just love physical mementos - is well documented. But the trend may be far bigger than the industry previously believed. “SoundScan only gets about 15%,” Vince Slusarz, the owner of top vinyl manufacturer Gotta Grove told the New York Times.
HOLY SHIT!! There can't be that many Vince Slusarz's can there? I used to know a guy named Vince Slusarz, we were friendly mostly via the net for a few years in the 90's. Great guy, excellent taste in music, turned me on to a few bands. Geez, I hope this is him
It's him! Back in touch after who knows how many years. Good stuff.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
tinnitus photography wrote:i can get by w/o buying books in physical format again, but not music.
strangely enough, i still like newspapers.
Just the opposite. I cancelled the paper the day I bought a computer, but I still buy books. I have never felt the urge to go back and reread a really good newspaper.
Quick - where's the "like" button?
the only time I ever read a physical newspaper is at a hotel at the continental breakfast and even then it's only USA Today. Wait, I guess that's really not a newspaper.
I do miss the Sunday paper though. Spread out all over the floor, first the comics then the book section. Damn I am an old fart.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
I think newspapers, by their very nature, are meant to be disposable but I do keep all of my music and art-related magazines. As I'm sure I've mentioned here before, I still have tons of old Circus, Creem, Hit Parader, Rock Scene and Rolling Stone issues I've held onto since the 70s. I love thumbing back through those and reading about bands I maybe wasn't into then that I'm into now. They're also like pieces of history, particularly some of those issues of Creem that pretty much documented the whole CBGB's scene as it was unfolding. I wasn't really into a lot of those bands back then but it makes for some pretty fascinating reading now. I also love reading books. I do quite a bit of reading on the web but reading a book forces me to focus on the topic at hand rather than skimming through a bunch of websites. I really got heavily back into reading books after hearing a piece on NPR last year about "deep" reading. That I had strayed so far from the concentration that it takes to read a book really concerned me. I love magazines, newspapers and reading articles online as much as the next person but I really get the most enjoyment out of reading an entire book. I'm glad I've gotten back to that.
tinnitus photography wrote:i can get by w/o buying books in physical format again, but not music.
strangely enough, i still like newspapers.
Just the opposite. I cancelled the paper the day I bought a computer, but I still buy books. I have never felt the urge to go back and reread a really good newspaper.
Quick - where's the "like" button?
i still love books, too! i'm not saying this just because we're friends...i always buy books..
Kudzu Guillotine wrote:I think newspapers, by their very nature, are meant to be disposable?
the newspaper's second act is either to sop up bird/puppy droppings, or to wrap fried fish.
The Tideland News (based out of the coastal NC town, Swansboro) is also affectionately known as "the Mullet Wrapper". At one time, I believe that was even part of the byline on the front page of the paper.
Smitty wrote:I've been turned off by many a record store clerk who either paid me no attention whatsoever or came off as condescending. Motherfuckers don't know I probably know as much or more about music than they ever will.
then again, if most of us had that job, how condescending would we be if people came in and asked for awful music...i probably wouldn't be able to hide...but that's DIFFERENT...that comes from an emotional rather than uninterested place..
Smitty wrote:I've been turned off by many a record store clerk who either paid me no attention whatsoever or came off as condescending. Motherfuckers don't know I probably know as much or more about music than they ever will.
then again, if most of us had that job, how condescending would we be if people came in and asked for awful music...i probably wouldn't be able to hide...but that's DIFFERENT...that comes from an emotional rather than uninterested place..
That's assuming I asked for awful music
well clearly you wouldn't, i was making a general observation...we've all got a little Jack Black in High Fidelity in us..
Try being the old guy who is automatically assumed either to know nothing or to be into whatever one's definition is of the unhippest music around. Then i ask 'em about groups that they know nothing about and don't even stock.
In a perfect world, record store clerks would do their job right, but what's often interesting is that in different stores, or on different days or in different parts of the country what's hip and what's not can be totally different, even conflicting. The arrogant, condescending asshole in one store might well be treated as a know nothing loser jerk by an arrogant condescending asshole in another store.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
As one who's worked in record stores (although I was more the nerdy Dick character than the abrasive Barry), keep in mind that for every Jack Black-type clerk you encounter as a customer once a week or so, there were daily dealings with Jack Black-type customers. Not excusing pretentious behavior, just sayin'...
scotto wrote:As one who's worked in record stores (although I was more the nerdy Dick character than the abrasive Barry), keep in mind that for every Jack Black-type clerk you encounter as a customer once a week or so, there were daily dealings with Jack Black-type customers. Not excusing pretentious behavior, just sayin'...
There were all kinds of record store clerks. There were hipsters, failed musicians, working musicians, mohawk wearing punks and every record store had a girl with pink hair that told you about all the best lyrics (before she moved on and worked at every Barnes & Noble). They were all great, even the pretentious ones. Record stores were an experience, it wan't retail it was church for all of us music geeks. I got turned on to the Clash, Jason & The Scorchers, Bruce Cockburn, Lloyd Cole and way more that I just can't think of right now. What takes the place of that? Well for me it's 3DD but what of impressionable 17 year olds? Where do they learn about future obsessions? I'd like to think that they find places like we have here but the reality is that they probably don't. Their tastes will be formed by media created hype and will be drawn to bands with more in common with Kings of Leon that The Dead Kennedys, The Clash, R.E.M., Slobberbone, DBT or whatever. The one thing I have faith in though is that Rock & Roll will survive this. People will still wander into clubs and hear the strains of some music that knocks their socks off. They'll still ride in the passenger seat while their tuned in friend puts something on the stereo and says "you have GOT to hear this". They'll still put on headphones at 2 AM and crank up the noise while playing air guitar. They'll still find their passion somewhere, but they will be fewer and the passions will harder to find. RIP record stores but long live Rock & Roll.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
scotto wrote:As one who's worked in record stores (although I was more the nerdy Dick character than the abrasive Barry), keep in mind that for every Jack Black-type clerk you encounter as a customer once a week or so, there were daily dealings with Jack Black-type customers. Not excusing pretentious behavior, just sayin'...
There were all kinds of record store clerks. There were hipsters, failed musicians, working musicians, mohawk wearing punks and every record store had a girl with pink hair that told you about all the best lyrics (before she moved on and worked at every Barnes & Noble). They were all great, even the pretentious ones. Record stores were an experience, it wan't retail it was church for all of us music geeks. I got turned on to the Clash, Jason & The Scorchers, Bruce Cockburn, Lloyd Cole and way more that I just can't think of right now. What takes the place of that? Well for me it's 3DD but what of impressionable 17 year olds? Where do they learn about future obsessions?
My niece is no longer 17 (she just turned 25) but I've been impressed with her taste in music over the years, even if it hasn't always been stuff I'm particularly into. I'm thinking her home raising has a lot to do with how independently she tends to think of music. She lives in Wilmington now and the live music scene there has taken on a new life recently with several new venues opening. They also have a pretty good record store in Gravity Records. It also doesn't hurt that it's a college town. The icing on the cake is a radio station called the Penguin, one of the few commercial stations I know of that actually plays the Drive-By Truckers. They also have a program where they play most anything listeners send in. That's virtually unheard of in this day and age, especially for a commercial radio station.
I went into a certain local record store the day Porter Wagoner passed and found Porter & Dolly on vinyl, and once I sat it on the counter to check out, the owner made a remark about he was glad that old geezer was dead, that now if hacks like George Jones & Merle Haggard would go ahead and die maybe he could sell some of their LP's too. He obviously hated anything to do with country music, and he & I were fairly acquainted, I had spend a pile of money in his store and back in my pest-control days, even sprayed his house for store credit - he may have thought we were "close" enough he could get away with saying some shit like that to me, but in a crowded store on that day it just hit me the wrong way, and after a brief argument, I left and didn't go back for almost 3 years -when a secret to a happy ending was released on DVD, I looked everywhere and couldn't find it, so I called up that store and sure enough Carl (the owner) answered, and immediately after I asked if they had any in stock, he said "well, I ain't heard from you in a while, Smitty" and put one back for me. He was also the first person to introduce me to Centro Matic/South San Gabriel, Love as Laughter, Calexico, and Giant Sand, among others.
