Spotify hits the US

[Flying Rabbit]

Once upon a time when I heard that Spotify was coming to the US, I signed up to be notified when it hit. Lo and behold, in my inbox was my invite to be among the first wave of people using it. Pretty cool.

I'm pretty sold on it. I love my Pandora, but this blows it out of the water for several reasons--
1. Sound quality -- it sounds amazing. Even through my PC speakers its very crisp and dense. Pandora has always been hit or miss with volume and quality. I know some of that is cleared up via Pandora One subscription, but for Spotify's free service its incredible.

2. The ability to play through albums. Don't get me wrong Pandora is a great tool to plug in a band and discover new music via their suggestions. That's the one thing I'll probably go back to it for. However, Spotify allows you queue up entire albums. Suppose you wanna hear GGB at work, or on yr iphone? Don't have the cd or mp3s--no problem. Just queue up the record on Spotify. Not every album is on there, but most artists have enough to cure any hankering you might have.

3. Encompassing media player. I was afraid to really delve deep into this for fear I'd screw up my catalogs, but you can access yr itunes and ipod libraries via Spotify as well.

Its pretty incredible. The downside is, you get commercials every few songs--and I believe there is a limit on how many times you can play a song per day. I believe if you pay the monthly fee though that gets absolved. I believe its like $10/month for unlimited. If I had a Iphone, I'd probably consider it just for the travel companion aspect alone.

[Given to Fly]

Just got my invite (took a few days) Looking forward to giving this a test drive tonight.

[dee dee]

I just got my invite a few hours ago and have been messing around with it. I can't believe this is free.

[Smitty]

still waiting for mine

[Smitty]

take that back - got my invite, this could be the greatest thing ever.

[Flying Rabbit]

Yeah, its like sliced bread. Wish I had a iphone or something to get the full upgrade. Once it opens full-on to anyone, I think its going to change again how we listen to music...again. How cool is it that someone can say "you need to hear xxx" and it is instantly there, and in cd quality? Incredible.

[BigTom]

Bit the bullet and signed up for the monthy subscription....worth every penny.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Yeah, its like sliced bread. Wish I had a iphone or something to get the full upgrade. Once it opens full-on to anyone, I think its going to change again how we listen to music...again. How cool is it that someone can say "you need to hear xxx" and it is instantly there, and in cd quality? Incredible.

I know very little about Spotify except that it is said to really shortchange independent artists, which would seem to include a lot of favorites around here. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Does this bother anyone else?

[beantownbubba]

Yeah, its like sliced bread. Wish I had a iphone or something to get the full upgrade. Once it opens full-on to anyone, I think its going to change again how we listen to music...again. How cool is it that someone can say "you need to hear xxx" and it is instantly there, and in cd quality? Incredible.

I know very little about Spotify except that it is said to really shortchange independent artists, which would seem to include a lot of favorites around here. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Does this bother anyone else?

What does "shortchange" mean TC? Paying them less than others? Cheating them? Not featuring them as prominently?

[Tequila Cowboy]

My understanding, based on admittedly limited research, is that get less money than major label artists because they do not have the bargaining power to negotiate those deals. In recent years many independent artists have formed their own labels to make more money on CD and download sales but Spotify (and others sure to follow) have put them back at square one it would seem. Again I'm not sure how I feel about this, but as one that usually purchases albums from bands I like in multiple formats to financially support them, this gives me pause.

[RevMatt]

My understanding, based on admittedly limited research, is that get less money than major label artists because they do not have the bargaining power to negotiate those deals. In recent years many independent artists have formed their own labels to make more money on CD and download sales but Spotify (and others sure to follow) have put them back at square one it would seem. Again I'm not sure how I feel about this, but as one that usually purchases albums from bands I like in multiple formats to financially support them, this gives me pause.

For someone like me, Spotify will likely end up being the service I use when I check out an artist for the first time. Kind of like college radio was back in the day. If I really like an artist I end up buying cd's and vinyl.

Artsits received no royalties for airplay on non-commercial stations back in the day. So REM, Husker Du, The 'Mats and The Minutemen never got paid despite dominating the CMJ charts in the eighties while their MTV and AOR counterparts made crazy mailbox money. I do not think it is a fair situation with Spotify, but it is nothing new.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Matt, this is true but I guess the difference being that back then folks had incentive to buy in order to have access to the whole album at will. That incentive is no longer there now.

[beantownbubba]

Do artists get paid based on how much their music is listened to (in addition to the upfront "bulk" rights fee)? I have to say that I don't understand the economics of this model at all, but taken by itself, the fact that indies get paid less for rights than the majors do doesn't trouble me all that much. I'd like to think that if and when i sign up w/ spotify I'd use it as RevMatt suggests, but I admit I'm not sure that i will. I do use itunes that way, even though i have to pay for the "samples" (i.e. the song or 2 i buy to decide whether to buy a cd) but w/ whole albums available, I'm not sure what i'll do, especially because i listen so much more on my computer than on my real stereo these days.

[Flying Rabbit]

You raise a valid point.

The thing is, either you buy the record or not. In this case, like RevMatt said, this is going to be my new college radio so to speak. If I like something then I'll buy it, if not then no harm done.

Spotify is exactly what the labels should've done from the beginning. Put everything out there, allow you to listen to it as much as you want if you pay, otherwise you can listen to a song/album X number of times. This is the case with Spotify. While you can listen to anything, you are limited on things unless you pay. Its still a great service no matter what, but paying is where its at.

I can see why a band might be getting upset--but then again, wouldn't they rather get paid something than nothing in the case of Youtube or bandcamp previewing. Also, since its instantaneous it cuts down on downloading it just to download it. Not mention, and I'm sure most musicians realize this, we're not in a record buying world anymore. You need to depend on services like pandora, spotify and last.fm to hook them and then you need to tour, and make great music to get people to drop money on yr albums.

So, personally I don't feel bad. Its giving bands a chance to be heard.

[Tequila Cowboy]

In some ways I was only playing devil's advocate here, hell I may just use the service myself, but I don't like where music buying is going in general. It seems that albums are, or maybe even already have, become loss leaders for bands and they have to be constantly searching for other revenue streams like TV shows, advertising and other less than savory ways to earn a living. Kinda sad isn't it?

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I have zero interest in Spotify but I was recently following a conversation about it on a friend's FB page. One of the musicians taking part in the discussion said that with Spotify, Reverb Nation, Facebook, etc. that a budding musician could very well spend all of their time updating their info and promoting themselves on all of the various media outlets they now have at their disposal which ends up leaving them very little time to create and play gigs, which is why they pursued a career in music to start with.

[Flying Rabbit]

Kinda sad isn't it?

It is. Unfortunately though, it looks like that the path has been well-formed now, and it doesn't look like anything is going to deviate from that. I think for me personally, the only way I've been able to rectify it with my own ethical outlook is that I know if I like a band, I'm going to buy their record, go see them on tour, buy their tour shirt, and tell my friends about them. Its what I can do as a music fan.

I have zero interest in Spotify but I was recently following a conversation about it on a friend's FB page. One of the musicians taking part in the discussion said that with Spotify, Reverb Nation, Facebook, etc. that a budding musician could very well spend all of their time updating their info and promoting themselves on all of the various media outlets they now have at their disposal which ends up leaving them very little time to create and play gigs, which is why they pursued a career in music to start with.

...and this is new? They need to read "Get In The Van" by Henry Rollins about all the flyer putting up, and promotions that they did to get people to Black Flag shows. DIY isn't easy. Its been the bane of independent musicians since the beginning of time. If anything, its gotten easier with FB. You can msg your entire fanbase in one swoop, as opposed to putting up a flyer and hoping they see it.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I have zero interest in Spotify but I was recently following a conversation about it on a friend's FB page. One of the musicians taking part in the discussion said that with Spotify, Reverb Nation, Facebook, etc. that a budding musician could very well spend all of their time updating their info and promoting themselves on all of the various media outlets they now have at their disposal which ends up leaving them very little time to create and play gigs, which is why they pursued a career in music to start with.

...and this is new? They need to read "Get In The Van" by Henry Rollins about all the flyer putting up, and promotions that they did to get people to Black Flag shows. DIY isn't easy. Its been the bane of independent musicians since the beginning of time. If anything, its gotten easier with FB. You can msg your entire fanbase in one swoop, as opposed to putting up a flyer and hoping they see it.

From what I gather, it's the amount of different ways at their disposal to promote themselves, not just the promotion itself.

[Smitty]

I admittedly had done basically zero research into the business dynamic of Spotify before I checked it out, and if smaller artists aren't getting justly compensated then I totally support a revamp of their business model, which I figure won't be too long out anyway (nothing is "free" for long in the United States..). It's also my understanding that an artist has the right to have their music taken off the program.

[Flying Rabbit]

It's also my understanding that an artist has the right to have their music taken off the program.

But why would they? Isn't getting paid something better than nothing? Isn't it better to have yr music heard?

[beantownbubba]

It's also my understanding that an artist has the right to have their music taken off the program.

But why would they? Isn't getting paid something better than nothing? Isn't it better to have yr music heard?

That depends.

The implicit assumption is that having one's music get heard leads to other opportunities. Those other opportunities used to be selling singles (initially, w/ top 40 on AM radio) and albums (eventually, w/ longer album cuts played on FM radio). Touring sometimes made money, sometimes lost money but was mostly viewed as a way to support record sales. Then came the bands that made it by "touring relentlessly" - everyone from the Allman Brothers to the Dave Matthews Band, but still, the real money came from selling albums. W/out going thru the whole history, we're now at a very different point - very few acts sell singles or albums at levels that would have even been "Top 20" 15 years ago. For a while, bands used the 'net (myspace, etc) to promote live shows (primarily), (hopefully, w/ fingers crossed) sales of music in various formats and also the sale of ancillary products like t-shirts.

But where are we now and where are we headed? Spotify will presumably lead to even more diminished sales of music in all formats. Can bands survive in large numbers if the only source of money is live shows and accommpanying sales of paraphernalia? If the odds of "making it big" become even longer than they already are will musicians still be willing to make the sacrifices required of them? I dunno, but it seems to me that it's a lot more complicated and uncertain than assuming that "any exposure is good exposure."

[Flying Rabbit]

I'm not a musician, so I can't honestly weigh in on that front. If someone wants to spell out the pros and cons, I'm definitely all ears. But from a marketing POV, you can't sell something that people don't know about, or can't see. That's my point. If its not costing you anything in overhead for Spotify, Pandora, Last.fm, Rdio, etc. why wouldn't you take the chance on people hearing and buying the record?

It seems like we're going around in circles though on this.

[Tequila Cowboy]

It's also my understanding that an artist has the right to have their music taken off the program.

But why would they? Isn't getting paid something better than nothing? Isn't it better to have yr music heard?

That depends.

The implicit assumption is that having one's music get heard leads to other opportunities. Those other opportunities used to be selling singles (initially, w/ top 40 on AM radio) and albums (eventually, w/ longer album cuts played on FM radio). Touring sometimes made money, sometimes lost money but was mostly viewed as a way to support record sales. Then came the bands that made it by "touring relentlessly" - everyone from the Allman Brothers to the Dave Matthews Band, but still, the real money came from selling albums. W/out going thru the whole history, we're now at a very different point - very few acts sell singles or albums at levels that would have even been "Top 20" 15 years ago. For a while, bands used the 'net (myspace, etc) to promote live shows (primarily), (hopefully, w/ fingers crossed) sales of music in various formats and also the sale of ancillary products like t-shirts.

But where are we now and where are we headed? Spotify will presumably lead to even more diminished sales of music in all formats. Can bands survive in large numbers if the only source of money is live shows and accommpanying sales of paraphernalia? If the odds of "making it big" become even longer than they already are will musicians still be willing to make the sacrifices required of them? I dunno, but it seems to me that it's a lot more complicated and uncertain than assuming that "any exposure is good exposure."

The real money never really came from selling albums, Beantown. At least not until you made it and signed a favorable deal, and even then it was largely the songwriters who made the dough through publishing deals in the so called "mailbox money". Now that was always the goal until about twenty years ago when what you identified as the "relentless touring" model took over. That happened out of necessity. I remember reading an article about the Jayhawks in the early nineties that compared them to some of the indie bands of just a few years before. At the time CD's listed for about $16.99 and of that price the band got less than a dollar. Now some bands that had recently "made it" and signed new contracts (R.E.M. was one of these I believe) were making close to $5 a CD. Huge difference. The Jayhawks had two albums in Hollywood Town Hall and Tomorrow the Green Grass that sold decently and were huge critical successes and they were so far in debt (I think it was $2 million) to the record company that Mark Olson actually left the band in frustration. Touring just couldn't make up the gap.

That brings us to the relentless touring that started in the jamband scene. Bands like Phish and Widespread Panic looked at the Grateful Dead model and started making money while selling very few albums. they toured, sold merchandise, allowed taping and even started selling live shows, first a few and then virtually every show. Now these bands made cash and yet their studio albums stiffed on the charts every time. That model begat the modern indie rock band who make most of their money touring. the record companies stopped the big advances and, even more importantly, stopped giving the bands a larger piece of the pie even after a fair amount of success. The money dried up from up top so grass roots became the norm. That continues today but now not even the record companies make much on a rock band so they even want a piece of the prized touring money, sometimes even including a piece of the merch sales. There's not much pie left to divide and it's the bands getting screwed. It's just hard to see how this gets better for the performers.

I guess what it comes down to is that indie bands have to forget about labels entirely. They have to do their own promotion, make records that they virtually give away, and try to keep touring as low cost as possible just to scrape by. Flying Rabbit may be right, these outlets may have to be part of the promotion puzzle despite that they don't make any money off of them. Kids will always form rock bands, but how long they can sustain themselves in it as a career is becoming a much larger question.

[Duke Silver]

i want to embrace this, but the random/obnoxiously loud chris brown/lil wayne/kelly rowland clips that keep popping up in my queue are a real turn-off

still pretty cool though

[RevMatt]

I've downloaded Spotify and it is up and running. My user name is RevMatt, just like here. I haven't figured out how to create individual playlists. Just listening to a little DBT and James McMurtry right now. Gotta see if The Dexateens are on there. This is great. $4.99 a month. I might upgrade to $9.99 so I can get it on a cell phone.

[Flying Rabbit]

Not to dredge up an old discussion, but since Twitter allows access to musicians, I took the opportunity to ask a few independent artists about their thoughts on Spotify and the royalties situation. Resoundingly, all of them said that not being heard is worse than illegal downloads, and while it may not pay as much--at least their music is getting to people's ears and hopefully to their wallets eventually to see a show or buy an album.

i want to embrace this, but the random/obnoxiously loud chris brown/lil wayne/kelly rowland clips that keep popping up in my queue are a real turn-off

google "blockify".

[Smitty]

My handle is Smitty7028, if anyone's interested.

[Flying Rabbit]

For those wondering how to add people w/o being FB friends:

If you know their username, type spotify:user:USERNAME in the search box. (Note that the username must be written in lower-case)

I'm BeardedGuy

[one belt loop]

Can anyone send me an invite?

[beantownbubba]

Can anyone send me an invite?

just go to the spotify website and sign up for an invite. I got mine in less than 24 hrs.