Erdlivz wrote:MMJ is like DBT to me. I'm constructive as a novice of musicianship and artist intentions. I can't ever say it's bad because they've been so damn great.
That was me until Evil Urges, but that album is just so freaking awful it boggles my mind. I can't even have a rational conversation about it. Their run of greatness from TTF --> AD --> ISM --> Z --> Okonokos --> It Makes No Difference --> Going to Acapulco is as good as any, IMO. I don't know what changed between Z and EU, but Jim just seems like a different person now, so much that I have a hard time relating to where he's coming from as an artist. His quirks used to be what took his good songs and made them great; now it seems like the quirks have become the point, and the songs have suffered.
I was browsing their official forum this morning (granted, not the place to go for unbiased discussion), and it seems like the fanbase is pretty much in ecstasy over Curcuital and Black Metal. So yeah...might just be time for me to walk away and accept that they've become something entirely different from the band I fell in love with.
I've watched bands I loved gradually slide into mediocrity before (Pearl Jam, Wilco to some extent, Grant Lee Buffalo), but I've never seen a band drop off as sharply as MMJ has.
I'm holding all opinions on Circuital until I hear more than 2 tracks.
EU is definitely a mess, but there are some very good songs on it. Smokin From Shootin, I'm Amazed, and Touch Me I'm Going to Scream pt. 2 keep it from being a disaster.
TMIGTS2 was one of the highlights of their show last year
I also liked Jim's songs on the MoF record
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
I'm probably over-reacting a bit, but I was holding out some hope after the MOF album. Based on the first two tracks and the rest of the song titles* (yeah, I know it's dumb to judge based on that), so far it looks like more of the same.
*edit. not to mention the fact that a song I unabashedly liked (Friends Again) didn't even make the album.
Circuital is quite good, nothing amazing, but still it's a good song. Holdin on to Black Metal is awesome, although I can understand why you wouldn't like it. Hell, I love Highly Suspicious. I doubt this album will be as good as their earlier stuff, but I think it'll be better than Evil Urges (which I like).
The best thing Jim has done in the last couple of years is Goin To Acapulco though...that's an amazing cover. Damn, I need to check my old external hd for that mp3...haven't heard it in ages.
Erdlivz wrote:MMJ is like DBT to me. I'm constructive as a novice of musicianship and artist intentions. I can't ever say it's bad because they've been so damn great.
That was me until Evil Urges, but that album is just so freaking awful it boggles my mind. I can't even have a rational conversation about it. Their run of greatness from TTF --> AD --> ISM --> Z --> Okonokos --> It Makes No Difference --> Going to Acapulco is as good as any, IMO. I don't know what changed between Z and EU, but Jim just seems like a different person now, so much that I have a hard time relating to where he's coming from as an artist. His quirks used to be what took his good songs and made them great; now it seems like the quirks have become the point, and the songs have suffered.
I was browsing their official forum this morning (granted, not the place to go for unbiased discussion), and it seems like the fanbase is pretty much in ecstasy over Curcuital and Black Metal. So yeah...might just be time for me to walk away and accept that they've become something entirely different from the band I fell in love with.
I've watched bands I loved gradually slide into mediocrity before (Pearl Jam, Wilco to some extent, Grant Lee Buffalo), but I've never seen a band drop off as sharply as MMJ has.
i think there are a lot of fans (like me) who are waiting to express dissappointment---that board's been kind of taken over by a newer group of fans --
and i don't think EU just popped out of nowhere, i think there's a progression from Z to EU that's pretty obvious..i'm not crazy about HOTBM and I was hoping Friends Again would make the album as well. But as for Jim changing, regular people and artists can't stay in the same genre/mode forever, it sucks. Good or bad, that's what happens. Seems to me that most bands have a 1-3 album peak and it's just hard to maintain that. You're right though..that's exactly what I saw happen to PJ and I never understood their following for all these years.
PS (I think HOTBM will be great live, though, just like Highly Suspicious.)
Erdlivz wrote:MMJ is like DBT to me. I'm constructive as a novice of musicianship and artist intentions. I can't ever say it's bad because they've been so damn great.
That was me until Evil Urges, but that album is just so freaking awful it boggles my mind. I can't even have a rational conversation about it. Their run of greatness from TTF --> AD --> ISM --> Z --> Okonokos --> It Makes No Difference --> Going to Acapulco is as good as any, IMO. I don't know what changed between Z and EU, but Jim just seems like a different person now, so much that I have a hard time relating to where he's coming from as an artist. His quirks used to be what took his good songs and made them great; now it seems like the quirks have become the point, and the songs have suffered.
I was browsing their official forum this morning (granted, not the place to go for unbiased discussion), and it seems like the fanbase is pretty much in ecstasy over Curcuital and Black Metal. So yeah...might just be time for me to walk away and accept that they've become something entirely different from the band I fell in love with.
I've watched bands I loved gradually slide into mediocrity before (Pearl Jam, Wilco to some extent, Grant Lee Buffalo), but I've never seen a band drop off as sharply as MMJ has.
i think there are a lot of fans (like me) who are waiting to express dissappointment---that board's been kind of taken over by a newer group of fans --
and i don't think EU just popped out of nowhere, i think there's a progression from Z to EU that's pretty obvious..i'm not crazy about HOTBM and I was hoping Friends Again would make the album as well. But as for Jim changing, regular people and artists can't stay in the same genre/mode forever, it sucks. Good or bad, that's what happens. Seems to me that most bands have a 1-3 album peak and it's just hard to maintain that. You're right though..that's exactly what I saw happen to PJ and I never understood their following for all these years.
PS (I think HOTBM will be great live, though, just like Highly Suspicious.)
You make an excellent point - I probably just need to see to see these guys live again. I haven't seen them since the very beginning of the EU tour (and as much I disliked those songs, it was still a kick ass show).
As far as their progression from Z to EU, I don't really see it. I mean, I kind of do now, but I definitely didn't see it coming at the time. It seemed like they used to use EPs and singles to explore their weirder/more playful/"fun" side, and then they'd clean it up for the albums. Now the albums have gotten weirder, and the non-album stuff (Ecto Cooler, or whatever that song is called) is basically unlistenable. I dunno. Hopefully I'll catch them on this next tour.
Sometimes there's a fine line between "fun" and "stupid" and they seem to have forgotten where that line is on their two most recent albums. I'm all for "fun" in music but if there is really someone out there that can listen to "Peanut Butter pudding surprise" or the children's chorus on "Black Metal" and not cringe, well, I'm impressed by their fortitude.
I'm leaving it all up to the shows this summer. I know the live show will knock my socks off.
I like a lot off EU but the lyrics on Highly Suspicious and Librarian make me scratch my head too. Interwebs? Huh.
I can't handle the chorus with kids on HOTBM either. We might need to be talking about this album in the World Music thread. I do think they'll sound a lot better live. I hope.
I bought Milwaukee and Chicago tickets and will probably brave the chaos at Lollapalooza. Oddly enough I haven't seen MMJ since >> 2004-10-02 Ervin J. Nutter Center/Wright State - Dayton, OH. Only damn show. I remember being completely floored.
Duke Silver wrote:I typically don't go for music that most people consider "fun"...but I think good music is fun. "Anytime" is fun, isn't it? I love that song.
I'm not gonna disagree, because I usually hate when people are justifying shitty music by saying it's fun...but that's the thing, I think highly suspicious isn't merely just fun, I consider it to be a good, although quite ridiculous song. but that's just my two cents, and from what I've seen that song divides the mmj fan community pretty sharply...
Erdlivz wrote:MMJ is like DBT to me. I'm constructive as a novice of musicianship and artist intentions. I can't ever say it's bad because they've been so damn great.
That was me until Evil Urges, but that album is just so freaking awful it boggles my mind. I can't even have a rational conversation about it. Their run of greatness from TTF --> AD --> ISM --> Z --> Okonokos --> It Makes No Difference --> Going to Acapulco is as good as any, IMO. I don't know what changed between Z and EU, but Jim just seems like a different person now, so much that I have a hard time relating to where he's coming from as an artist. His quirks used to be what took his good songs and made them great; now it seems like the quirks have become the point, and the songs have suffered.
I was browsing their official forum this morning (granted, not the place to go for unbiased discussion), and it seems like the fanbase is pretty much in ecstasy over Curcuital and Black Metal. So yeah...might just be time for me to walk away and accept that they've become something entirely different from the band I fell in love with.
I've watched bands I loved gradually slide into mediocrity before (Pearl Jam, Wilco to some extent, Grant Lee Buffalo), but I've never seen a band drop off as sharply as MMJ has.
After listening to the new album a few times...I have to agree with our last statement. This band is just gone downhill like nobody's business. I feel like JJ kind of goes out of his way to "not make regular rock sounds" like he said before EU came out...and it is just hurting them bigtime. I'm not saying they need to go and make another It Still Moves because you don't want to repeat what you already did...but I don't get this new album at all....EU had some good tracks but that was about it.
I feel like Z really got a new fanbase and that was great...it made them bigger and opened up a lot of opportunities...it seems like now they are doing the complete opposite..making albums that turn their fans away.
and don't go by the MMJ forum on anything....they would be in heaven if JJ peed on record...It is really annoying to me when people can't be honest about music. I love DBT but if they put out a shitty record i'm going to say so.
At Dawn-It Still Moves-Z was about as good as it gets besides another trio that trumps that.
EU has some songs that I really like. I listened to EU the other day and it's just not cohesive like the rest.
The new songs haven't stacked up for me. It's just a complete move away from their roots. I like Octoplasm. I know its not on the album but you can feel some Dead and Floyd in it.
I do wish JJ would explore his eclectic taste through solo endeavors. Do you think the rest of the band is on board with it or just really passive?
I'm excited to see MMJ in June. I'm eager to see what the fanbase is like now. I've missed too many opportunities to see them over the last few years.
Duke Silver wrote:I typically don't go for music that most people consider "fun"...but I think good music is fun. "Anytime" is fun, isn't it? I love that song.
I'm not gonna disagree, because I usually hate when people are justifying shitty music by saying it's fun...but that's the thing, I think highly suspicious isn't merely just fun, I consider it to be a good, although quite ridiculous song. but that's just my two cents, and from what I've seen that song divides the mmj fan community pretty sharply...
it is a great song---i think take out 1 line of lyrics and it would have gotten taken a lot more seriously
well, i'm officially disappointed in this album...i also don't like the version of 'wonderful' as much as the acoustic version they've been playing for the past few years. WHY WHY WHY mess with it..I think Circuital is great and a couple of other songs are really growing on me, but overall, ....
judging by two distracted listens to the new album: I like, but it's not nearly as good as their best. will see how it compare to z and evil urges after a few more listens...
My problem with EU (I feel like I've typed those words a lot on this board ) is the middle section. The first few songs are ok, but everything after I'm Amazed up to Smokin From Shootin is godawful. Just horrible, terrible, bad music with 3rd grade lyrics. As ridiculous as Highly Suspicious is, Librarian makes it look like Dondante in comparison. I also hate Carl's background vocals on stuff like Sec Walkin. Why do they always have to be falsetto? Cute for the sake of being cute instead of serving the song.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I've gotten since around Z-->EU is that Jim wants MMJ to be The Flaming Lips. But those quirky/weird tendencies don't really play to the band's strengths. They've got one of the best drummers in rock and they're using drum machines? Dumb.
That sucks about Circuital being disappointing, Penny. I was hoping to see some enthusiasm around here that would spread to me... I still wanna catch them on tour, though. Hopefully they come through the twin cities.
Well I'm hopeful because when I first listened to EU, I didn't know what to think...other than Remnants, I think it's great album..(my least favorite, but still good)..So who knows what more listens will bring I think a lot of these will sound better live.
so far my sleeper favorite is You wanna freak out.. (a little motown)
that is one of my biggest turnoffs of this album..what is up with the drum machine??? Patrick is a monsters and they are making this weirdo little sounds and effects and a drum machine? not sure how he can be happy about that.
Duke Silver wrote:My problem with EU (I feel like I've typed those words a lot on this board ) is the middle section. The first few songs are ok, but everything after I'm Amazed up to Smokin From Shootin is godawful. Just horrible, terrible, bad music with 3rd grade lyrics. As ridiculous as Highly Suspicious is, Librarian makes it look like Dondante in comparison. I also hate Carl's background vocals on stuff like Sec Walkin. Why do they always have to be falsetto? Cute for the sake of being cute instead of serving the song.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I've gotten since around Z-->EU is that Jim wants MMJ to be The Flaming Lips. But those quirky/weird tendencies don't really play to the band's strengths. They've got one of the best drummers in rock and they're using drum machines? Dumb.
That sucks about Circuital being disappointing, Penny. I was hoping to see some enthusiasm around here that would spread to me... I still wanna catch them on tour, though. Hopefully they come through the twin cities.
Sec Walkin & the Librarian are two of my favorite EU songs lol... The problem I have is, if you scaled back a lot of their newer songs to just a front porch and an acoustic guitar, you wouldn't have anything - and that's the hallmark of great songs, IMO.
Duke Silver wrote:My problem with EU (I feel like I've typed those words a lot on this board ) is the middle section. The first few songs are ok, but everything after I'm Amazed up to Smokin From Shootin is godawful. Just horrible, terrible, bad music with 3rd grade lyrics. As ridiculous as Highly Suspicious is, Librarian makes it look like Dondante in comparison. I also hate Carl's background vocals on stuff like Sec Walkin. Why do they always have to be falsetto? Cute for the sake of being cute instead of serving the song.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I've gotten since around Z-->EU is that Jim wants MMJ to be The Flaming Lips. But those quirky/weird tendencies don't really play to the band's strengths. They've got one of the best drummers in rock and they're using drum machines? Dumb.
That sucks about Circuital being disappointing, Penny. I was hoping to see some enthusiasm around here that would spread to me... I still wanna catch them on tour, though. Hopefully they come through the twin cities.
Sec Walkin & the Librarian are two of my favorite EU songs lol... The problem I have is, if you scaled back a lot of their newer songs to just a front porch and an acoustic guitar, you wouldn't have anything - and that's the hallmark of great songs, IMO.
except for Wonderful! (which they should have left alone!)
I have listened to the first five songs and don't think it's that bad. Because of y'all I was expecting crap but I am digging it. Love Victory Dance and Out of My System.
Penny Lane wrote:Seems to me that most bands have a 1-3 album peak and it's just hard to maintain that. You're right though..that's exactly what I saw happen to PJ and I never understood their following for all these years.
I would say that Pearl Jam had a 5-album peak to start their career (Ten-Vs-Vitalogy-No Code-Yield). It's high on the list of 5-album runs to start a career in the history of rock if you ask me. Their only mediocre album IMO is Riot Act. If you want to understand their following...go to some live shows. They are one of the best live bands (still) I've ever seen.
The closer you get to the meaning
The sooner you'll know that you're dreaming
Penny Lane wrote:Seems to me that most bands have a 1-3 album peak and it's just hard to maintain that. You're right though..that's exactly what I saw happen to PJ and I never understood their following for all these years.
I would say that Pearl Jam had a 5-album peak to start their career (Ten-Vs-Vitalogy-No Code-Yield). It's high on the list of 5-album runs to start a career in the history of rock if you ask me. Their only mediocre album IMO is Riot Act. If you want to understand their following...go to some live shows. They are one of the best live bands (still) I've ever seen.
I completely agree Bill. PJ is epic in so many ways. I don't see how anyone cannot understand their following. They are one of the biggest bands ever and seeing them live still to this day is still just as mind blowing as when I first saw them probably 16 years ago....and I really only have an album or two that I don't love. Their run has been unreal...and trumps MMJ 10X over IMO.
I'd like to go on record as saying that "BackSpacer" and the Avocado record are pretty damn solid.
I've only listened to "Circuital" once and I don't have the slightest desire to listen to it again anytime soon. It kinda hurts my feelings a little. I was really looking forward to it.
This album definitely doesn't stack up to what my expectations were. I'm going to stop going to "negative town" until I listen a few more times. Oddly enough, HOTBM is growing on me a bit and will be fantastic live.
Last edited by Erdlivz on Wed May 04, 2011 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
olwiggum wrote:I'd like to go on record as saying that "BackSpacer" and the Avocado record are pretty damn solid.
I've only listened to "Circuital" once and I don't have the slightest desire to listen to it again anytime soon. It kinda hurts my feelings a little. I was really looking forward to it.
I feel the same way...for some reason I don't even want to listen to anymore...i've had enough. Huge disappointment.
I do think they'll sound a lot better live. I hope.
The Easter Bunny didn't leave anything in my basket.
I still wanna catch them on tour, though. Hopefully they come through the twin cities.
