Quicklists XXIII: Top 5 Died Too Soon

[Smitty]

Tim Hardin & Tim Buckley & Jeff

[Zip City]

Harry Chapin
Jim Croce

[Smitty]

I wonder if Gram would've ever gained the popularity his music deserved, or if he would've continued to dwell in (relative) obscurity; I also wonder if Cobain would've kept the quality of his music upor if it would've fell by the wayside along with other 90's bands, would Dave Grohl have ever got out from behind the drum kit... I would've loved to have seen his & Michael Stipe's collaboration.

[RevMatt]

I wonder if Gram would've ever gained the popularity his music deserved, or if he would've continued to dwell in (relative) obscurity

Gram had so many influencial fans that the public would have taken notice. Plus, surviving implies that he would have gotten off drugs. I think the biggest obstacle he faced was the drugs getting in the way of the songwriting. So, if he got clean he would have been more prolific. And I am sure he would have done an album with Keith Richards sometime in the 1980's. Would have been alsum.

[Iowan]

Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon is one of the most underrated bands of all time)

word.
"and i'll close my eyes really, really tight and make you all go away"

"and when you feel life ain't worth livin', just keep on dreamin' boy 'cause when you quit dreamin' it's time to die"

[Iowan]

I wonder if Gram would've ever gained the popularity his music deserved, or if he would've continued to dwell in (relative) obscurity; I also wonder if Cobain would've kept the quality of his music upor if it would've fell by the wayside along with other 90's bands, would Dave Grohl have ever got out from behind the drum kit... I would've loved to have seen his & Michael Stipe's collaboration.

Honestly, I think Grohl has exceeded what Cobain ever did from a quality standpoint. I'm not sure if that qualifies for either A) the music blasphemy thread or B) elicits responses of "you like the Foo Fighters?". Well, yes. I LOVE the Foo Fighters. I think Grohl is an incredibly underrated song writer, and a great arranger. The man gets music, and almost everything he touches turn to gold. If you aren't sold on the Foos, check out the Skin & Bones live album. It's full scale acoustic arrangements, and is just really, really good.

So, my point here is that if Cobain's death was necessary to release Dave Grohl as a songwriter and overall great musical collaborator, than we've been given a musical gift.

I've been drinking.

[Smitty]

I wonder if Gram would've ever gained the popularity his music deserved, or if he would've continued to dwell in (relative) obscurity

Gram had so many influencial fans that the public would have taken notice. Plus, surviving implies that he would have gotten off drugs. I think the biggest obstacle he faced was the drugs getting in the way of the songwriting. So, if he got clean he would have been more prolific. And I am sure he would have done an album with Keith Richards sometime in the 1980's. Would have been alsum.

True, but unless he really sweetened and watered-down his music ala the Eagles, I don't know if even with the help of a Keith Richards or whomever it would've mattered

[Iowan]

I wonder if Gram would've ever gained the popularity his music deserved, or if he would've continued to dwell in (relative) obscurity

Gram had so many influencial fans that the public would have taken notice. Plus, surviving implies that he would have gotten off drugs. I think the biggest obstacle he faced was the drugs getting in the way of the songwriting. So, if he got clean he would have been more prolific. And I am sure he would have done an album with Keith Richards sometime in the 1980's. Would have been alsum.

True, but unless he really sweetened and watered-down his music ala the Eagles, I don't know if even with the help of a Keith Richards or whomever it would've mattered

The cream always rises. We'd be discussing him today, either way.

If we're discussing Big Star in this forum, I don't see why we wouldn't be discussing Gram. With celebrity buddies, he was bound to be exposed some day.

[Flea]

Country Dick

[Smitty]

The thing about Big Star is that there's noone really like them; that's not the case when it comes to Gram. Think of all the country-rock pioneers who are for the most part forgotten: Chris Hillman, Gene Parsons, Steve Young, Gene Clark, Richie Furay, Michael Nesmith, Doug Dillard, etc - each of them have work that's almost if not on the same level as GP's, but you don't see anyone discussing them today. You could make the argument that Gram got their first with the International Submarine Band and that's true, but I don't think that'd be near as infamous now if it wasn't for the "legend" of Gram being rekindled, most of it due to his dying young. Without his young death and the circumstances surrounding it I believe he may have gotten lost in the fold. None of his work ever suggested that he would be a succesful mainstream artist, even in the seventies - he was too far behind and ahead of his time. He may have been remembered for influencing the Byrds and the Rolling Stones to explore country music, or even that could've bee attributed to Byron Berline (whom Gram introduced to the Stones) or even that could've just been wrote off as it being Keith's idea, since the Stones were already headed in that direction and Gram just accelerated it. (Gram didn't come along till after Beggar's Banquet, but really the Stones started flirting with country as early as Aftermath("High and Dry") in 1966). One thing separating GP from the above-mentioned is that it wasn't necessary for him to be commercially successful, being he had a large bankroll to fall back on. Even if he did just fade away into obscurity I have no doubt he would've continued making music, and he may have even got a windfall and rode on the success of the Eagles, Linda Ronstadt and the more commercial "country rock" coming out of LA in the 70's, but I highly doubt he would've ever broken through and achieved the sort of notoriety that he receives today. Even if Keith had produced one of his records, that's no guarantee for mainstream success, especially without radically altering his style. I have no doubt that he would've made quality maybe even great records, but to think he would've broken down the walls and achieved major success is highly doubtful.

Of course this is all speculation and there's no way of knowing, but truthfully I don't know if Gram was that much more deserving of recognition than the artists I mentioned earlier, it's just that people buy into his myth, including me, he's got a very captivating story - you couldn't make up a more interesting story, from his wealthy Southern family in the south Georgia & Florida swamps whose history was plagued by tragedy, suicide & alcoholism, his schooling at Harvard to his Laurel Canyon heyday and his stay in Nellcote to meeting his end in a lonely hotel in the middle of the Joshua Tree desert (not even mentioning having his corpse stole and being burnt at Cap Rock by his road manager). That's not saying his music isn't worthy of the attention it has gotten, the quality of his work in such a short time at such a young age is phenomenal, and in the history of American music you'd be hard-pressed to find someone as positively influential as he and it's wonderful his work is as respected and well-known as it is, even if it's after-the-fact; I'm just saying it's a shame that all these other great artists get lost in his shadow. There's a reason Chris Hillman is called "the bitter lieutenant". BTW, if you're not familiar with any of these artists, get on that right away.

It would've changed the course of "Americana" music greatly if he had lived, if for no other reason than Emmylou may have not had a solo career, which helped Rodney Crowell get started in her Hot Band and they were instrumental in initially exposing TVZ and Guy Clark's music to a wider audience...

[4sooner]

Country Dick

Great call. Dick was quite the entertainer.
And a good musician as well. Shocked me when I heard about his death.

[beantownbubba]

The bottom line is that there is no way to know and life has a way of surprising us, but that said, I think smitty's got it exactly right re GP.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Out of all the dead rock stars we've been discussing I think Jimi would have been the most interesting to have seen live and grow as a musician. At the time of his death he was collaborating with Miles Davis and I doubt he would have stopped experimenting there. I think if he had lived the Jimi discussion would be quite different than it is today.

[The Black Canary]

Patsy Cline
Conway Twitty
Keith Whitely
John Bonham
John Paul Jones
George Harrison
James "Honey Man" Scott

[lajakesdad]

John Paul Jones

When?????

[lajakesdad]

Honestly, I think Grohl has exceeded what Cobain ever did from a quality standpoint.

So, my point here is that if Cobain's death was necessary to release Dave Grohl as a songwriter and overall great musical collaborator, than we've been given a musical gift.

I've been drinking.

Obviously. Are you smoking crack too??

[4sooner]

Out of all the dead rock stars we've been discussing I think Jimi would have been the most interesting to have seen live and grow as a musician. At the time of his death he was collaborating with Miles Davis and I doubt he would have stopped experimenting there. I think if he had lived the Jimi discussion would be quite different than it is today.

I agree with this post 100% Jimi's first on this list.

[beantownbubba]

Out of all the dead rock stars we've been discussing I think Jimi would have been the most interesting to have seen live and grow as a musician. At the time of his death he was collaborating with Miles Davis and I doubt he would have stopped experimenting there. I think if he had lived the Jimi discussion would be quite different than it is today.

I agree with this post 100% Jimi's first on this list.

I agree, I think. Wondering about the "different discussion" part. If u mean that his music would have continued to change and grow and explore uncharted territory, then yep there'd be more to talk about. But if u mean that his music would have continued to change and grow and explore uncharted territory, well, that's already the discussion

[sactochris]

Eddie Cochran
Gram Parsons
Roy Buchanan
Mike Bloomfield
Bill Black

[tinnitus photography]

Ian Curtis
Jack Rose
Cliff Burton (good call on Zip's part)
Randy Rhoads
Bon Scott
Malcolm Owen (Ruts singer)

others for consideration, but they did leave a fairly to very deep legacy prior to their passing):

Michael Dalquist (Silkworm drummer killed in car crash, 2007)
Charlie Gocher (Sun City Girls drummer, died of cancer in '08)
Sean McDonnell (Surgery gtr/voc, died of complications of asthma in '95).
Larissa Strickland (Laughing Hyenas gtr, OD in '06)
Charlie Ondras (Unsane drummer, heroin OD '92)
Gram Parsons (OD, '73)


Hendrix probably lands here, but it would be interesting to see where he would take things. Coltrane, too.


Rick Danko died on this day as well. Tip o' the cap to him.

good source of other notable deaths here:
http://themusicsover.wordpress.com/

[Cubfan06]

Others I don't think that people mentioned

Cliff Burton
Lane Staley
Bradley Nowell
2PAC
Kurt Cobain
Duane Allman

[Tequila Cowboy]

Honestly, I think Grohl has exceeded what Cobain ever did from a quality standpoint.

So, my point here is that if Cobain's death was necessary to release Dave Grohl as a songwriter and overall great musical collaborator, than we've been given a musical gift.

I've been drinking.

Obviously. Are you smoking crack too??

Crack is really the only explanation for this outrageous statement.

[cortez the killer]

Lane Staley

Good call. I was a huge AiC fan back in the day. Mad Season is very good too.

[Iowan]

Honestly, I think Grohl has exceeded what Cobain ever did from a quality standpoint.

So, my point here is that if Cobain's death was necessary to release Dave Grohl as a songwriter and overall great musical collaborator, than we've been given a musical gift.

I've been drinking.

Obviously. Are you smoking crack too??

Hardly. Dave Grohl's work is something I listen to on a regular basis. I hardly ever listen to Nirvana any more. The ten best Foo Fighters songs are better than the ten best Nirvana songs.

I'm sober right now, and honestly, if you strip away the hype and the myth, Foo Fighters are as good if not better than Nirvana. Grohl is underrated, like Cobain is overrated.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Sorry Iowan, can't buy that. Cobain was a once in a generation type of songwriting talent, Grohl has been good with the Foo Fighters but it isn't close. Not by half.

[Iowan]

Sorry Iowan, can't buy that. Cobain was a once in a generation type of songwriting talent, Grohl has been good with the Foo Fighters but it isn't close. Not by half.

Cobain wasn't a once in a generation type of talent. He was good, and his music was a huge part of my adolesence, but I think he's the classic example of being considered better because he died early.

[The Black Canary]

Sorry Iowan, can't buy that. Cobain was a once in a generation type of songwriting talent, Grohl has been good with the Foo Fighters but it isn't close. Not by half.

Cobain wasn't a once in a generation type of talent. He was good, and his music was a huge part of my adolesence, but I think he's the classic example of being considered better because he died early.

apples and oranges

[Tequila Cowboy]

Sorry Iowan, can't buy that. Cobain was a once in a generation type of songwriting talent, Grohl has been good with the Foo Fighters but it isn't close. Not by half.

Cobain wasn't a once in a generation type of talent. He was good, and his music was a huge part of my adolesence, but I think he's the classic example of being considered better because he died early.

We will agree to disagree then. To me Cobain was a guy who took the indie aesthetic from bands like The Replacements and Meat Puppets and parlayed that into the kind of mainstream success the others never even dreamed of. he had that thing, that magic that only a select few have ever had. To me Nirvana were the fourth and last great turning point in rock & roll before it began to decline. Elvis was the first, the Beatles the second, the Sex Pistols the third and Nirvana the fourth. i keep waiting for the fifth but I don't think it's coming.

[Iowan]

Sorry Iowan, can't buy that. Cobain was a once in a generation type of songwriting talent, Grohl has been good with the Foo Fighters but it isn't close. Not by half.

Cobain wasn't a once in a generation type of talent. He was good, and his music was a huge part of my adolesence, but I think he's the classic example of being considered better because he died early.

We will agree to disagree then. To me Cobain was a guy who took the indie aesthetic from bands like The Replacements and Meat Puppets and parlayed that into the kind of mainstream success the others never even dreamed of. he had that thing, that magic that only a select few have ever had. To me Nirvana were the fourth and last great turning point in rock & roll before it began to decline. Elvis was the first, the Beatles the second, the Sex Pistols the third and Nirvana the fourth. i keep waiting for the fifth but I don't think it's coming.

I guess we will. He wrote some really catchy songs, no doubt. I just think it was timing. He brought a level of credibility back to popular rock and roll that had been lacking for about 10 years, with the exception of GNR. But even stacked against his contemporaries like Staley, Vedder, and Cornell, I think his body of work is ARGUABLY the weakest (Cornell's solo stuff has been utter shit). Of all the mega huge Seattle bands, Nirvana without a doubt owed the most to pop music (not that there's anything wrong with that). I think their sudden popularity, based off of one really good record bought them a lot of worship, Kind of like the Sex Pistols.

As far as the "turning points", I wouldn't worry. There's great rock and roll music coming out every day.

[Mr. B]

Maybe I missed it, but I just jumped on to this thread and haven't seen the name of the great Joe Strummer.