Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

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John A Arkansawyer
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

lajakesdad wrote:A friend gave me Separation Sunday when it came out and I instantly loved it.


I wrote a good friend on a bad day and told him I'd gone from Life's Rich Pageant to Exile on Main Street and I still needed help and what could he recommend. He said either Separation Sunday or Decoration Day. I had already heard Decoration Day but didn't have a copy of my own, so I took my lunch hour off to buy a copy of Separation Sunday. By the time I got back to the office, I'd heard maybe the first four songs and for the next few weeks that was my default listening.

lajakesdad wrote:I then listened to other albums and it all seemed the same to me. A one trick pony.


I wouldn't say all the same, but I'd say more the same than not, and this is a band on which that will not wear well. Lyrically, so many of the themes stay the same. I like that they're self-consciously literary but again, how will that wear over time? On the other hand, I could say the same bad stuff about Jethro Tull in the seventies, but I'd sure pay good money for another album that sounded like Benefit or Stand Up or Aqualung.

The one big difference on the new tour, which I saw here in Little Rock just after DBT in Memphis, was the lack of Franz Nicolay, the keyboard player, and I think that's going to hurt them, too. Their catalog is full of songs which highlight his playing. I enjoyed the show, but it wasn't as good as the times I've seen them with Nicolay. It's hard but great to play full-out rock with keyboards and get the right sound, on disc or on stage. That's something THS had and now doesn't.

Does this sound like a fan? Well, I am. I'll almost certainly go see them whenever they're in town. I'm a lot less likely to make travel plans just to see them play.
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Iowan
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

Zip City wrote:
Iowan wrote:
Zip City wrote:
sex, drugs and rock & roll filtered through the lens of insufferable Minneapolis hipsters? yes


Kubler's no hipster. Hell, Finn isn't a hipster. Like he says on the Positive Rage DVD "I like sports and beer". Hipsters don't like sports and beer, nor do they look like accountants.


THS aren't hipsters, their fans are


I'm about the furthest thing from a hipster, as are my friends who like THS. Although, I will admit that they do have a lot of hipster fans. But so do DBT (not on this board, but you see 'em at shows).

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Iowan wrote:I'm about the furthest thing from a hipster, as are my friends who like THS. Although, I will admit that they do have a lot of hipster fans. But so do DBT (not on this board, but you see 'em at shows).


I don't know about hipsters, but I do find some THS fans to be rude and not very friendly at shows. I won't even consider getting near the rail at a THS show anymore, I just can't handle the aggressive vibe. You don't find that at DBT shows.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Iowan wrote:I'm about the furthest thing from a hipster, as are my friends who like THS. Although, I will admit that they do have a lot of hipster fans. But so do DBT (not on this board, but you see 'em at shows).


I don't know about hipsters, but I do find some THS fans to be rude and not very friendly at shows. I won't even consider getting near the rail at a THS show anymore, I just can't handle the aggressive vibe. You don't find that at DBT shows.


That's definitely true. We were up close to the rail at First Ave this summer and the rest of the crowd up there was just obnoxious. There were 6 of us (4 guys and 2 girls) and all 4 of us guys were decent sized. There were guys shoving chicks and crap like that. If I hadn't been so "relaxed" I'd probably have cracked a few of them. Well, I wouldn't have because I don't see the point in violence like that, but part of me sure wanted to.

I saw them about 3 weeks ago and avoided the front for that exact reason. They draw a lot of that punk crowd, and those guys just like to barrel into people and shit. The DBT crowd is definitely a little older, and a lot more mature. You don't get any of that punk scene mosh bullshit.

There are a lot of good bands that draw a douchey crowd though. I told myself years ago that I'd never judge a band based on their crowd.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by drtpants »

I think Separation Sunday is hands down one of the best albums of the last 10 years. Like a lot of people around here, THS takes me back to the days when I was a kid in the Upper Midwest discovering sex,booze,drugs and punk rock. A couple of years ago they were my favorite band.

That said, I think they're taken it as far as they can. The last record is, in my opinion, a failed attempt at re-invention. Sounds way too much like a Kings of Leon record for my tastes. Tad Kubler sounding more and more arrogant with every interview isn't helping. I guarantee you he does something with Danger Mouse in the near future. Also not jazzed about the two new guys in the band either. Live, great players though they be, they come off like hired guns and the whole band seems like they're punching the clock some nights in a way they never did pre-Stay Positive.

For those of you who love this band but don't love 'Heaven', may I recommend Titus Andronicus' "The Monitor". Best disc of 2010. Really good live band too and Patrick Stickles is my current Indy Rock Hero.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Duke Silver »

I like a few THS songs, but I've yet to make it through an entire album. And Craig Finn seems like a nice enough guy, but man does his stage presence bother me. All the nervous ticks and awkward spasming comes off as really contrived and self-conscious, imo. You're like 50 years old, man, get it together.

But this is an excellent thread. I'll probably give THS another shot at some point.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

I'm revisiting this thread because I've been listening to the Hold Steady very heavily for the past month.

Several things:
-I think it was TC who pointed this out, but good lord the production on Heaven is Whenever is god awful. I think I gave that album a little pass because it sounds phenomenal live.

-There is definite staying power with me on their music. They're really not much less diverse than DBT. Sonic diversity is overrated when you keep writing ridiculously good songs.

-Their next album will define their career. If it's another poorly produced, unfocused affair (like Heaven is Whenever) they will likely be on their way out with a whimper. However, I think they have the ability to put together another knock out. They were adrift after losing Franz and clearly unsure of how to attack things at that point. Having seen the power they can still bring live without him, I have faith that they can continue kicking ass.

-It's funny how much I agree with many of the things I said roughly a year ago. I absolutely stand by pretty much every point I made about this band. Generally, when I read my documented opinions from the past (an exercise I engage in on a frequent basis) I chuckle at how the way I feel has changed over time. Not so in this case.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by one belt loop »

Duke Silver wrote:I like a few THS songs, but I've yet to make it through an entire album. And Craig Finn seems like a nice enough guy, but man does his stage presence bother me. All the nervous ticks and awkward spasming comes off as really contrived and self-conscious, imo. You're like 50 years old, man, get it together.

But this is an excellent thread. I'll probably give THS another shot at some point.


Just for the record, he turned 40 this year. But my mom refers to him as "that guy who wears shirts like your dad did in the 50s."

As for HIW, Tad did the production and it sucked. He was also dealing with some personal issues, big ones, and I'm sure that influenced things adversely.

As for Franz leaving and the hole that created, my feeling, and I'm pretty sure about this, was that they hired Dan and Steve precisely because they had no personality, thus returning the spotlight solely to Craig and Tad.

I'm not sure I believe they can pull it off again. We'll see. I'd be happy about it, but I can never go back to what they were for me. That was reserved for a particular time in my life. It was magical. Now it's so competitive, the sleeplessness and sedatives. I know it sounds repetitive - every show can't be a benefit.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by sactochris »

I still love them every bit as much as I did 5 1/2 years ago when I first discovered them, shortly before Boys & Girls In America came out. I think Heaven Is Whenever is very unfairly maligned even though the production does suck.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

sactochris wrote:I still love them every bit as much as I did 5 1/2 years ago when I first discovered them, shortly before Boys & Girls In America came out. I think Heaven Is Whenever is very unfairly maligned even though the production does suck.


It has some very, very good songs. But the production is so bad, especially when you're listening to another THS album and then switch over.

Whoever decided to keep the live solo off the album cut of the title track needs a swift kick in the ass.

However, the songs are there and that gives me optimism about the future of the band.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

sactochris wrote:I still love them every bit as much as I did 5 1/2 years ago when I first discovered them, shortly before Boys & Girls In America came out. I think Heaven Is Whenever is very unfairly maligned even though the production does suck.


The production sucks BAD! Makes the record unlistenable for me. Live, however, the songs sound quite a bit better. They've lost me a little but I haven't given up on THS quite yet.
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one belt loop
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by one belt loop »

Iowan wrote:It has some very, very good songs. But the production is so bad, especially when you're listening to another THS album and then switch over.

Whoever decided to keep the live solo off the album cut of the title track needs a swift kick in the ass.



Pretty sure Tad was in charge of most of those decisions.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

one belt loop wrote:
Iowan wrote:It has some very, very good songs. But the production is so bad, especially when you're listening to another THS album and then switch over.

Whoever decided to keep the live solo off the album cut of the title track needs a swift kick in the ass.



Pretty sure Tad was in charge of most of those decisions.


Well, I'm going to have to dissent with Mr. Kubler here. Sometimes self production is a very bad thing

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by sactochris »

Iowan wrote:
sactochris wrote:I still love them every bit as much as I did 5 1/2 years ago when I first discovered them, shortly before Boys & Girls In America came out. I think Heaven Is Whenever is very unfairly maligned even though the production does suck.


Whoever decided to keep the live solo off the album cut of the title track needs a swift kick in the ass.




I've always felt that they took the solo out because it made the song seem too much like Lord I'm Discouraged off of the previous record. They are similar in tempo and would have both had an epic extended solo in the middle of them.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

sactochris wrote:
Iowan wrote:
sactochris wrote:I still love them every bit as much as I did 5 1/2 years ago when I first discovered them, shortly before Boys & Girls In America came out. I think Heaven Is Whenever is very unfairly maligned even though the production does suck.


Whoever decided to keep the live solo off the album cut of the title track needs a swift kick in the ass.




I've always felt that they took the solo out because it made the song seem too much like Lord I'm Discouraged off of the previous record. They are similar in tempo and would have both had an epic extended solo in the middle of them.


That may be the reasoning, but I still disagree with it. With those awful syrupy strings masking a decent song, they needed something to lift that song. The solo really does lift it.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

Hold Steady Facebook seems to be saying that Franz Nicolai is back. Big, big deal IMO. Can't wait to see what they bring to the table, especially after Craig knocked the solo album thing out of the park.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Beebs »

Iowan wrote:Hold Steady Facebook seems to be saying that Franz Nicolai is back. Big, big deal IMO. Can't wait to see what they bring to the table, especially after Craig knocked the solo album thing out of the park.
Oh wow. I think he was such a huge part of the sound that initially pulled me in (and a big part of the live show, too).

I've had just about zero interest in anything they've done since he left. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Will »

Playing a limited number of shows for BAGIA 10th anniversary this fall. Said they had the delay the announcement with the full details while they work things out with their co-conspirators. DBT doesn't have anything listed after mid-September. Total speculation, but...maybe Rock And Roll Still Means Well?

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

Of course my two favorite bands will tour together during harvest.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Smitty »

That would be right at the beginning of DBT's tour cycle for the new album. They could still tour with THS, but I doubt it.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by sactochris »

Stuck Between Stations and Southtown Girls just aren't the same without Franz.

I'd love to see see a very comprehensive B side collection released.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Clams »

I don't even like The Hold Steady too much, but this news makes me happy. I can appreciate how much it means the band and the fans.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

This is exciting to me. THS haven't done much for me since Franz Nicolay left and BAGIA is one of my favorite records of the last 2 decades. I doubt this gets all that close to us but Memphis, Atlanta or NOLA would work nicely. Make it so.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by ilockyer »

This news made me hurry up and complete my passport renewal. Doubt they're going to bring the tour over here, so looks I'll have to come to them.

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Vincent »

Clams wrote:I don't even like The Hold Steady too much, but this news makes me happy. I can appreciate how much it means the band and the fans.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Smitty »

I've enjoyed the last couple Finn solo records as much as BAGIA and SP, the two best THS records IMO.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by John A Arkansawyer »

I had an active night of dreaming, including the big news that the Rock And Roll Means Well 2016 tour would start in Little Rock and proceed to every large city in Ohio, making a stop in St. Louis on the way. Sorry, everybody else.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Iowan »

Smitty wrote:I've enjoyed the last couple Finn solo records as much as BAGIA and SP, the two best THS records IMO.
"Clear Heart Full Eyes" didn't due much for me, but "Faith in the Future" is an excellent album.

I'd put Separation Sunday ahead of BAGIA as well.

I rank the THS albums as such:
BAGIA
Separation Sunday
Almost Killed Me
Stay Positive
Teeth Dreams
Heaven Is Whenever

Teeth Dreams is a wildly underrated album in my opinion. Most on this board never cared for it, but other than a couple of songs I thought it was a really strong return to form from Heaven Is Whenever (which has about 2-3 songs I still listen to).

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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Iowan wrote:
Smitty wrote:I've enjoyed the last couple Finn solo records as much as BAGIA and SP, the two best THS records IMO.
"Clear Heart Full Eyes" didn't due much for me, but "Faith in the Future" is an excellent album.

I'd put Separation Sunday ahead of BAGIA as well.

I rank the THS albums as such:
BAGIA
Separation Sunday
Almost Killed Me
Stay Positive
Teeth Dreams
Heaven Is Whenever

Teeth Dreams is a wildly underrated album in my opinion. Most on this board never cared for it, but other than a couple of songs I thought it was a really strong return to form from Heaven Is Whenever (which has about 2-3 songs I still listen to).
I'll tell you the problem for me with recent THS (Teeth Dreams and Heaven is Whenever), they aren't good records particularly but you are right in that they have good songs. I almost never listen to songs, only full, complete albums. Once in a blue moon I'll make a playlist for traveling but that's very rare. BAGIA, Stay Positive and Seperation Sunday crop up in regular rotation 2 or 3 times a year. In contrast Faith in the Future has been a regular listen (at least once a month) since it was released. I really want to catch a show with Franz sitting in. There's no question to me that was the best incarnation of the band.
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Re: Artist of the Week 12/6/10: The Hold Steady

Post by blackwll »

I really liked his first solo album, Clear Heart Full Eyes. Never really got into the one from last year, but I'll have to give it another spin. Agree about the downward trajectory of their studio albums after Stay Positive. Sunday is my fav by far.

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