Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by dogstar »

There's a new Walkabouts album out next week (21 October) in Europe. They were one of the first Americana bands that I found out about so might investigate - it got a decent review in one of the UK papers last Friday.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by tinnitus photography »

really? that's cool. they are a severely underrated band.


i still haven't seen them play live. :cry:

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by LBRod »

The Cowboy Junkies have released Sing In My Meadow today. If the CJ's make you think of Trinity Sessions, think again.
This fucking rocks. Please go listen. As always, for free. My early favorites are 3rd Crusade, the title track, and I Move On.

http://latentrecordings.com/cowboyjunkies/music/

I linked to the music catalog page where you can hear the new record as well as the 5 song ep of live songs.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

Paste is streaming John Prine's The Singing Mailman Delivers prior to it's official release next Tuesday. To listen, click here.

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

From RollingStone.com:

Bob Seger Releasing Career-Spanning Two-CD Set
In April, Seger said the idea of a two-disc set 'doesn't seem right to me'


By ANDY GREENE

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Bob Seger
Patti Ouderkirk/WireImage

Bob Seger is releasing his first-ever two CD career retrospective disc on on November 21st. Entitled Ultimate Hits: Rock and Roll Never Forgets, the twenty-six track collection is a mix of hits ("Old Time Rock And Roll," "We've Got Tonight"), fan favorites ("Travelin' Man," "Beautiful Loser") and recent work ("Wait For Me," "Downtown Train"). The album will be available for download on iTunes and Amazon.com, marking the first time that many of his biggest hits will be officially available online.

Unlike virtually all of his peers, Seger has released very few hits albums. In 1994 he released Greatest Hits and in 2003 he released Greatest Hits 2. He has no box set, and many of his early albums aren't even in print. When we spoke with Seger in April, he said that he was against the idea of a two-CD hits set. "For this tour, [my label] called up a lot around Christmas and New Years and said, 'You can't just put the two greatest hits together as a reissue?'" Seger said. "I said, 'You know, that's just cheesy. Here's another greatest hits, here's another free lunch for me.' They're out there, people can buy them, and if you can buy anything, those are the ones you can buy, Greatest Hits 1 and 2, so I don't see a reason to . . . it doesn't seem right to me."

Seger's 2006 LP Face The Promise is only new album to hit shelves in the past 16 years, but he has been working on new material over the past year. "I'd say the next album is half done," Seger told Rolling Stone in April. "If the songwriting gods smile on me, it will be all new material. If they don't, it will be a mixture of what I've got now and and the best of the old [unreleased tracks.] It'll put out whatever the best songs are, new or old."

It's unclear what the status of the next album is, but Seger and the Silver Bullet Band are resuming their American tour November 2nd at Eastern Michigan University in Ypsilanti, Michigan. The tour runs 23 dates, wrapping up December 30th in Las Vegas.

Here's the complete track listing for Ultimate Hits: Rock and Roll Never Forgets:

DISC ONE
1. Old Time Rock And Roll
2. Hollywood Nights
3. Night Moves
4. Mainstreet
5. Roll Me Away
6. Turn The Page
7. Her Strut
8. Still The Same
9. You’ll Accomp’ny Me
10. We’ve Got Tonight
11. Like A Rock
12. Fire Lake
13. Tryin’ To Live My Life Without You

DISC TWO
1. Rock And Roll Never Forgets
2. Against The Wind
3. Ramblin’ Gamblin’ Man
4. The Fire Down Below
5. Travelin’ Man (Live)
6. Beautiful Loser (Live)
7. Shakedown
8. Shame On The Moon
9. Katmandu
10. Little Drummer Boy
11. Wait For Me
12. Hey Hey Hey Hey (Going Back To Birmingham)
13. Downtown Train

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

The new dB's album probably won't come out until 2012. Here's a taste of it.



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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

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Zip City
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Zip City »

good year for "comeback* records":

Ryan Adams
MMJ
Wilco
Foo Fighters




*comeback meaning coming back strong after an album(s) that were perceived as less than great
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Zip City wrote:good year for "comeback* records":

Ryan Adams
MMJ
Wilco
Foo Fighters




*comeback meaning coming back strong after an album(s) that were perceived as less than great


Agree on the Adams, lukewarm on the Wilco and although it's growing on me a little I don't think I can say it's better than Wilco The Album. I haven't heard the Foo Fighters record so no opinion there, but I sure can't get on board with the MMJ. I actually like Evil Urges quite a bit, although it did have a few weak songs, but Circuital is just godawful IMHO. I cannot see myself ever listening to it again. Which does, btw, make me sad as I truly love some of their earlier work particularly It Still Moves and Okonokos.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Zip City »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Zip City wrote:good year for "comeback* records":

Ryan Adams
MMJ
Wilco
Foo Fighters




*comeback meaning coming back strong after an album(s) that were perceived as less than great


Agree on the Adams, lukewarm on the Wilco and although it's growing on me a little I don't think I can say it's better than Wilco The Album. I haven't heard the Foo Fighters record so no opinion there, but I sure can't get on board with the MMJ. I actually like Evil Urges quite a bit, although it did have a few weak songs, but Circuital is just godawful IMHO. I cannot see myself ever listening to it again. Which does, btw, make me sad as I truly love some of their earlier work particularly It Still Moves and Okonokos.


I'm fully in love with the new Wilco. I was on the fence about Circuital until I heard the songs live (which, I understand, shouldn't be the qualifier for a good album, but still...)
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by shuffle »

Zip City wrote:good year for "comeback* records":

Ryan Adams
MMJ
Wilco
Foo Fighters




*comeback meaning coming back strong after an album(s) that were perceived as less than great

agreed on ryan adams without a doubt, and also on foo fighters... mmj? I probably prefer evil urges now, but it's close. easily their two worst though. the new wilco is pretty dull (I can barely remember any of the songs), but the opener and closer definitely makes it more worthwhile than their last one.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by tinnitus photography »

dogstar wrote:There's a new Walkabouts album out next week (21 October) in Europe. They were one of the first Americana bands that I found out about so might investigate - it got a decent review in one of the UK papers last Friday.



great new track:

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Zip City »

shuffle wrote:new black keys single: http://birdsneedfeet.blogspot.com/2011/ ... y-boy.html


you beat me to it.

Here's the video:

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by beantownbubba »

Needless to say, the s/t White Flag album didn't quite hold up at the very high level it starts out at (see my post in the listening thread), but it's still gonna be pretty high up on my year end list. Definitely recommended.

And I'm surprised to say that the s/t Superheavy album will probably be on the list as well though not near the top. Worth a listen.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

New DVD of live performances from Talking Heads which dates from 75-83 (with the exception of their performance during their induction into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame from 2002), it's due for release on November 21st. You can read more about it here.

Image

1. “Mic Test” (1976)
2. “With Our Love” (1975)
3. “I’m Not In Love” (1975)
4. “Psycho Killer” (1975)
5. “Intros Montage” (1976)
6. “The Girls Want To Be With The Girls” (1976)
7. “Don’t Worry About The Government” (1978)
8. “Dressing room fan footage: Found A Job” (1978)
9. “Thank You For Sending Me An Angel” (1978)
10. “Warning Sign” (1978)
11. “Artists Only” (1979)
12. “Take Me To The River” (1979)
13. “Crosseyed And Painless” (1980)
14. “Animals” (1980)
15. “Love → Building On Fire” (1982)
16. “Cities” (1982)
17. “Burning Down The House” (1983)
18. “Life During Wartime” (2002)

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Penny Lane »

Re: Shuffle's comeback comment:

my comeback albums:
Blitzen Trapper (wasn't big on DOTV)
Ryan Adams (in a BIG WAY)
Stephen Malkmus (didn't get into RET)

my downgrade albums (still like, though)
MMJ
Deer Tick
AA Bondy
Bright Eyes


My STILL as AWESOME as the last albums
Jason Isbell
Dawes
Strand of Oaks
Wilco
Felice Bros
J Roddy
War on Drugs
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by dee dee »

1. Deer Tick – Divine Providence
2. Black Joe Lewis and the Honeybears – Scandalous
3. Middle Brother – S/T
4. Drive-by Truckers- Go Go Boots
5. Centro-Matic – Candidate Waltz
6. J Macsis – Several Shades of Why
7. Lydia Loveless – Indestructible Machine
8. Jessica Lea Mayfield – Tell Me
9. Richard Buckner – Our Blood
10. Wilco – The Whole Love
11. Scott H. Biram – Bad Ingredients
12. Girls – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
13. Blitzen Trapper – American Goldwing
14. Dawes – Nothing is Wrong
15. Fleet Foxes – Helplessness Blues
16. Gurf Morlix – Blaze Foley’s 113th Wet Dream
17. Ezra Furman and the Harpoons – Mysterious Power
18. Hayes Carll – KMAG YOYO (And Other American Stories)
19. Bill Callahan – Apocolypse
20. AA Bondy – Believers
21. Kurt Vile – Smoke Ring For My Halo
22. The Low Anthem – Smart Flesh
23. The Rural Alberta Advantage – Departing
24. Gillian Welch – The Harvest and the Harrow
25. The Deep Vibration – Strange Love
Last edited by dee dee on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Zip City »

I like the beginning and end of the Middle Brother album, but it gets a little "rock around the clock" in the middle. Million Dollar Bill is my fav on that one.

The Dawes record isn't perfect, but If I Wanted Someone is one of my favorite songs of the year.

Haven't heard the Deer Tick
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by dee dee »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.


I like making lists a lot more than explaining myself but I'll try.

Divine Providence registered with me on first listen. I like alt-country, power pop, folk rock, the Replacements, Nirvana, live shows, and getting involved in behaviors I probably shouldn't, and this album kinda reminds me of all those things. Then again, after reading the P4k review today and the cokemachine glow review a few weeks ago, I'm not sure what that says about my taste. I find it to be sloppy, raucous, and very fun (The Bump, Funny Word, Something To Brag About, Let's All Go To the Bar). They also do quality stuff that reminds me of what I liked about the first three albums (Main Street, Miss K) with more hooks. The last week or so its been going 2 or 3 times a day and I've grown to like all the songs. Sometimes the albums that are immediately catchy to me eventually get boring to me (as opposed to the growers that take a while - Richard Buckner, Bill Callahan, Centro-matic).

Middle Brother kind of does the same thing although not nearly as raucous. The more low key stuff on this is pretty memorable to me and the first stuff from Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes that really hit me. Million Dollar Bill comes to mind.

There are about 5 songs on the Dawes album that I really like (Time Spent In Los Angeles, If I Wanted Someone, Million Dollar Bill, The Way You Laugh, and A Little Bit of Everything). The stuff on the middle isn't as great imo. Sometimes it feels a little heavy on the cliches, even for me, and a bit too many broken hearted love songs but I keep coming back every week or so for another listen. It has been dropping on my list.

And I have to admit, I'm getting a man crush on John McCauley of Deer Tick, similar to the way I felt about Cooley for a while :lol:

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Current list:

1. Drive-By Truckers- Go-Go Boots
2. Centro-Matic- Candidate Waltz
3. Glossary- Long Live All Of Us
4. J Mascis- Several Shades of Why
5. Jason Isbell- Here We Rest
6. Ryan Adams- Ashes & Fire
7. Tommy Stinson- One Man Mutiny
8. Kurt Vile- Smoke Rings For My Halo
9. Warren Haynes- Man In Motion
10. Jayhawks- Mockingbird Time
11. Roadside Graves- We Can Take Care Of Ourselves
12. Steve Earle - I'll Never Get Out of This World Alive
13. Greg Allman- Low Country Blues
14. Robbie Robertson- How To Become Clairvoyant
15. The Low Anthem- Smart Flesh
16. Jessica Lea Mayfield – Tell Me
17. Hayes Carll – KMAG YOYO
18. Lauderdale- Moving On
19. Will Johnson- Little Raider EP
20. Wilco- The Whole Love
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by bovine knievel »

dee dee wrote:1. Deer Tick – Divine Providence
2. Black Joe Lewis and the Honeybears – Delirious
3. Middle Brother – S/T
4. Drive-by Truckers- Go Go Boots
5. Centro-Matic – Candidate Waltz
6. J Macsis – Several Shades of Why
7. Lydia Loveless – Indestructible Machine
8. Jessica Lea Mayfield – Tell Me
9. Richard Buckner – Our Blood
10. Wilco – The Whole Love
11. Scott H. Biram – Bad Ingredients
12. Girls – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
13. Blitzen Trapper – American Goldwing
14. Dawes – Nothing is Wrong
15. Fleet Foxes – Helplessness Blues
16. Gurf Morlix – Blaze Foley’s 113th Wet Dream
17. Ezra Furman and the Harpoons – Mysterious Power
18. Hayes Carll – KMAG YOYO (And Other American Stories)
19. Bill Callahan – Apocolypse
20. AA Bondy – Believers
21. Kurt Vile – Smoke Ring For My Halo
22. The Low Anthem – Smart Flesh
23. The Rural Alberta Advantage – Departing
24. Gillian Welch – The Harvest and the Harrow
25. The Deep Vibration – Strange Love



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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Zip City »

I don't have nearly as many new albums as you guys do

1 - The Decemberists - The King is Dead
2 - DBT - Go-Go Boots
3 - Wilco - The Whole Love
4 - MMJ - Circuital
5 - Girls - Father, Son and Holy Ghost
6 - Ryan Adams - Ashes and Fire
7 - Jason Isbell & the 400 Unit - Here We Rest
8 - Foo Fighters - Wasting Light
9 - The Civil Wars - Barton Hollow
10 - Iron & Wine - Kiss Each Other Clean
11 - Middle Brother - Middle Brother
12 - Dawes - Nothing is Wrong
13 - Lucinda Williams - Blessed
14 - Steve Earle - I'll Never Get Out of This World Alive
15 - Fleet Foxes - Helplessness Blues
16 - The Head and the Heart - The Head and the Heart
17 - Beastie Boys - Hot Sauce Committee Pt. 2
18 - The Bad Examples - Smash Record
19 - Radiohead - The King of Limbs
20 - Bright Eyes - The People's Key
21 - Danger Mouse & Daniele Luppi - Rome
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Current list:

1. Drive-By Truckers- Go-Go Boots
2. Centro-Matic- Candidate Waltz
3. Glossary- Long Live All Of Us
4. J Mascis- Several Shades of Why
5. Jason Isbell- Here We Rest
6. Ryan Adams- Ashes & Fire
7. Tommy Stinson- One Man Mutiny
8. Kurt Vile- Smoke Rings For My Halo
9. Warren Haynes- Man In Motion
10. Jayhawks- Mockingbird Time
11. Roadside Graves- We Can Take Care Of Ourselves
12. Steve Earle - I'll Never Get Out of This World Alive
13. Greg Allman- Low Country Blues
14. Robbie Robertson- How To Become Clairvoyant
15. The Low Anthem- Smart Flesh
16. Jessica Lea Mayfield – Tell Me
17. Hayes Carll – KMAG YOYO
18. Lauderdale- Moving On
19. Will Johnson- Little Raider EP
20. Wilco- The Whole Love


Glad to see that Gregg Allman on your list. It suffers the fate of being released so early in the year that it's likely to be forgotten. I listened to it recently myself and had forgotten just how much I liked it. One I need to spend more time with is Lucinda's Blessed. Thing is, when I become enamored of an album (such as Mount Moriah or the Decemberists' The King Is Dead) I have a tendency to push everything else to the side and become lost in the ones I'm in love with.

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.


Uh oh, TC. I agree w/ every word of this.

Psssst..dee dee...it's scandalous. How's the season going?
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by dee dee »

beantownbubba wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.


Uh oh, TC. I agree w/ every word of this.

Psssst..dee dee...it's scandalous. How's the season going?


Oops, thanks for the heads up! The season is great now cause it ended last night with a 17-7 loss (against a team that was also winless). We were 0-10 on the year and very over-matched. Most weeks it felt like were were an NCAA Division III team playing Alabama. 8 days ago, the administration forced the head coach to tell the kids he was resigning at the end of the year to avoid a parent protest at last night's game. We were outscored on the season something like 400-42! In the nine years I've been at this school they have won a total of nine games. I actually enjoyed coaching the kids and the company of the other coaches, but man were Friday nights painful!

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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by shuffle »

dee dee wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.


I like making lists a lot more than explaining myself but I'll try.

Divine Providence registered with me on first listen. I like alt-country, power pop, folk rock, the Replacements, Nirvana, live shows, and getting involved in behaviors I probably shouldn't, and this album kinda reminds me of all those things. Then again, after reading the P4k review today and the cokemachine glow review a few weeks ago, I'm not sure what that says about my taste. I find it to be sloppy, raucous, and very fun (The Bump, Funny Word, Something To Brag About, Let's All Go To the Bar). They also do quality stuff that reminds me of what I liked about the first three albums (Main Street, Miss K) with more hooks. The last week or so its been going 2 or 3 times a day and I've grown to like all the songs. Sometimes the albums that are immediately catchy to me eventually get boring to me (as opposed to the growers that take a while - Richard Buckner, Bill Callahan, Centro-matic).

Middle Brother kind of does the same thing although not nearly as raucous. The more low key stuff on this is pretty memorable to me and the first stuff from Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes that really hit me. Million Dollar Bill comes to mind.


also: new reigning sound track. new free ep on tuesday. sounds pretty damn great. http://onethirtybpm.com/media/mp3-reign ... lyin-girl/ I love everything greg cartwright does pretty much.

There are about 5 songs on the Dawes album that I really like (Time Spent In Los Angeles, If I Wanted Someone, Million Dollar Bill, The Way You Laugh, and A Little Bit of Everything). The stuff on the middle isn't as great imo. Sometimes it feels a little heavy on the cliches, even for me, and a bit too many broken hearted love songs but I keep coming back every week or so for another listen. It has been dropping on my list.

And I have to admit, I'm getting a man crush on John McCauley of Deer Tick, similar to the way I felt about Cooley for a while :lol:

I absolutely get why you like the deer tick album so much...I've kinda had a weird relationship with it since it leaked a month or so ago...been going up and down a lot. I like it both in theory and when listening to it, but I like it far far more in theory than the actual songs...a couple are really impressive, but some just don't work for me. I get why the pitchfork guy didn't like it, I actually enjoyed that review a lot, I thought it had a lot of valid points but at the same time I don't really agree with him at all. I'd give it a 7/10 or so, not a 4 or whatever it got... If you'd take the john's songs from the middle brother record and the best half of divine providence you'd have one kickass record. and by the best half I mean john's tracks.
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by dee dee »

shuffle wrote:
dee dee wrote:
Tequila Cowboy wrote:I really wished I liked the Deer Tick/Dawes/Middle Brother triumvirate. I just don't get it. I mean Dee Dee and others that have excellent taste love this stuff and I can't get past a couple songs on any record of any of the three.


I like making lists a lot more than explaining myself but I'll try.

Divine Providence registered with me on first listen. I like alt-country, power pop, folk rock, the Replacements, Nirvana, live shows, and getting involved in behaviors I probably shouldn't, and this album kinda reminds me of all those things. Then again, after reading the P4k review today and the cokemachine glow review a few weeks ago, I'm not sure what that says about my taste. I find it to be sloppy, raucous, and very fun (The Bump, Funny Word, Something To Brag About, Let's All Go To the Bar). They also do quality stuff that reminds me of what I liked about the first three albums (Main Street, Miss K) with more hooks. The last week or so its been going 2 or 3 times a day and I've grown to like all the songs. Sometimes the albums that are immediately catchy to me eventually get boring to me (as opposed to the growers that take a while - Richard Buckner, Bill Callahan, Centro-matic).

Middle Brother kind of does the same thing although not nearly as raucous. The more low key stuff on this is pretty memorable to me and the first stuff from Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes that really hit me. Million Dollar Bill comes to mind.


also: new reigning sound track. new free ep on tuesday. sounds pretty damn great. http://onethirtybpm.com/media/mp3-reign ... lyin-girl/ I love everything greg cartwright does pretty much.

There are about 5 songs on the Dawes album that I really like (Time Spent In Los Angeles, If I Wanted Someone, Million Dollar Bill, The Way You Laugh, and A Little Bit of Everything). The stuff on the middle isn't as great imo. Sometimes it feels a little heavy on the cliches, even for me, and a bit too many broken hearted love songs but I keep coming back every week or so for another listen. It has been dropping on my list.

And I have to admit, I'm getting a man crush on John McCauley of Deer Tick, similar to the way I felt about Cooley for a while :lol:

I absolutely get why you like the deer tick album so much...I've kinda had a weird relationship with it since it leaked a month or so ago...been going up and down a lot. I like it both in theory and when listening to it, but I like it far far more in theory than the actual songs...a couple are really impressive, but some just don't work for me. I get why the pitchfork guy didn't like it, I actually enjoyed that review a lot, I thought it had a lot of valid points but at the same time I don't really agree with him at all. I'd give it a 7/10 or so, not a 4 or whatever it got... If you'd take the john's songs from the middle brother record and the best half of divine providence you'd have one kickass record. and by the best half I mean john's tracks.


I get the problems some people have with the album as well. I read somewhere that the album was the musical equivalent of a belch in your face. I kind of agree with that, but it also comes with a Jim Beam shot, a bong hit, and a hand job. I think my list proves I like the sad stuff, poppy stuff, country stuff, etc. but I'm also always searching for something that rocks out and makes me smile and Deer Tick (and Black Joe Lewis) kinda do that for me.

beantownbubba
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Re: Best albums of 2011 / the music of 2011

Post by beantownbubba »

dee dee wrote:

but I'm also always searching for something that rocks out and makes me smile a


Steve Cropper: Dedicated. Also the new/current albums by Warren Haynes, Tedeschi/Trucks and White Flag. You're welcome. ;)
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard

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