How does it look, though, for a "new" Jason fan to start digging through his back catalog, search out some DBT discussion sites (here, Facebook, etc.), only to see us bashing on Jason fans? Wouldn't that turn you off to DBT forever?

All I'm saying is that we look like dicks, which is ironic since we're giving THEM shit for being pretentious

Zip City wrote:How does it look, though, for a "new" Jason fan to start digging through his back catalog, search out some DBT discussion sites (here, Facebook, etc.), only to see us bashing on Jason fans? Wouldn't that turn you off to DBT forever?

All I'm saying is that we look like dicks, which is ironic since we're giving THEM shit for being pretentious

Wow, I've never fully considered the responsibilities that come with being a DBT fan and more specifically a 3DD'er. I would hate to set a bad example for the future Isbell fans of the world and turn them off of DBT forever.

But there's one thing I'm puzzled about: when exactly did you start worrying about looking like a dick?

Ok I haven't ever posted much and definitely not much at all lately. Firstly, TC was making an observation in a place where we all have and should feel comfortable doing so. He has said previously that the new JI stuff does not connect well with him so the music, crowd view is not out of the blue. Based on TC's previous posts about music (which I respect), I've tried to go back and rediscover/understand the appreciation with the Replacements - and I just don't. Doesn't mean my tastes suck (maybe they do), just my taste. Not anyone else's, mine. Like all of us, TC can make any observation, music/ticket purchase he chooses without getting anyone's panties in a wad.

On the other hand, NEWS FLASH, there can be a hint on DBT snobbery here. Since I became a fan 9 or 10 years ago, from time to time I have had to force myself to enjoy other music so I understand the obsession. The rawk show experience and the DBT music catalog have changed my life. The songs that hooked me early on included Jason's scorching guitar licks as part of the songs (see Lookout Mtn, Devil Don't Stay, Your Daddy Hates Me, etc) so I was a bit disappointed when I discovered that I was coming into the fold post Isbell (though that didn't diminish my love for the Rawk Show). Hell I love the rock so much that I even played Lookout Mountain with a dad band to my students when I was still an elementary school principal.

When I went back to listen to Jason's first solo stuff it was WAY too tame for me. It laid dormant for a while because I wanted the rock. As he (and I) went through some life struggles, however, I found more common ground with his work and couldn't love most of it more. Cover Me Up is a masterpiece that has gotten its just due and has been part of the explosion that JI has enjoyed. While we all wonder why DBT hasn't reaped the same level of benefits from their multiple gems, they just haven't. We all know the music industry is different so with that fact known it should be celebrated that Jason has. With that comes all sorts of fans with varied degrees of backgrounds, concert behaviors, appreciation for Jason's roots, etc. So what??? You can't have the good without some of the "bad" (if that is bad), it just is. Good for Jason, good for us to be able to express views and choose who we fully support, good for "those JI fans" who are part of this wave and who are only willing to live on the surface and not grow into deep levels of musical knowledge/appreciation for kings like Petty. I choose to support Jason and Drive-By Truckers and do so without shitting on any of the parties involved. Everybody Needs Love mutherfuckers!

Last night (which also included Cigarettes and Wine and The Blue)


Coupla nights ago

Couple weeks back (now I'll stop

Listen, I have a long past history as a music snob. I used to wear it like a badge of honor and it was stupid as fuck. People like what they like. Shit, there are things I used to hate that I now love and things I considered "guilty pleasures" are now just pleasures thanks to a stern but joyous three hour conversation with the late Craig Leiske. My initial point, which we've diverged from somewhat, had to do with a lack of respect for the artist you came to see and the almost sacred venue you came to see him in. Not to mention that he was sharing his love of a recently passed music legend. I do think in such a case you as a concert goer have certain duties and I'm sorry but I don't think that's being a snob. In a completely different type of fandom think if you go to a baseball game or call yourself a baseball fan you have certain duties as well which is why I've been very upset with my fellow Cubs fans this season so my feelings on this aren't limited to music and I call em as I see em.

All that said I probably should stay away from criticisms of his fans concert norms. It's OK to sing off key at the top of your lungs at a DBT show, and it's OK if that's frowned upon by Jason's crowd. It's kind of silly but it's ok. I do want to say though that my perspective is not just DBT related. Last Saturday I had the profound pleasure and privilege to attend Glossary's twentieth anniversary show opened by Jon Latham. Latham gets it and was almost teary eyed when telling the tale of his introduction to Tom Petty when he was a grade schooler and later did a great version of Even the Losers in his honor. The crowd was there for Glossary but paid just as much attention and respect to Latham. These were people who came from all over to see a band they loved and they respected the occasion including the opener and there was only a small HeAthens crossover. Most done their homework and had listened to Latham prior to the show. Then of course when Glossary came on it was a love fest. I get that vast majority of Jason's fans show him that same kind of love but I question if they show him the same kind of respect. It's just a call, but it how I really feel. That's all I've got.

Thanks for that

Nice follow-up Dean.

Smitty wrote:But there's one thing I'm puzzled about: when exactly did you start worrying about looking like a dick?

Zip City wrote:

Iowan wrote:

Zip City wrote:I feel like this board is overly sensitive about Isbell's new fanbase. Who the fuck cares?

Part of the concert experience is coming together with like minded people over the music you all love.

There isn't much like minded between the new Isbell crowd and the DBT crowd, so attending a Jason show lacks that crucial component of the experience. If people can't vent about that on a message board dedicated to those artist so, where can they?

I haven't seen Jason since early 2014, and the lame-ass crowd is 20-25% of that. The staid setlists, and abandonment of the deep pre-Southeastern tracks are the other 75%.

I've been to DBT concerts where I don't feel like-minded with the crowd as well. There are plenty of idiot rednecks who like DBT.

Sorry to vent, but I feel like DBT fans have a huge chip on their shoulder about Jason, and nitpick him to death as much as possible. I'm sure there's some resentment that the alcoholic douchebag that got kicked out of the band has made good and surpassed DBT in popularity. I'm sure there is a feeling that new Isbell fans aren't 'real fans' because they didn't witness his early successes and failures. I just don't get shitting on them at every opportunity

I'm with you on that one, Jason deserves his success.

How depressing would it be if someone of his talent were still playing dive bars for 10 bucks at the door?

Zip City wrote:

Iowan wrote:

Zip City wrote:I feel like this board is overly sensitive about Isbell's new fanbase. Who the fuck cares?

Part of the concert experience is coming together with like minded people over the music you all love.

There isn't much like minded between the new Isbell crowd and the DBT crowd, so attending a Jason show lacks that crucial component of the experience. If people can't vent about that on a message board dedicated to those artist so, where can they?

I haven't seen Jason since early 2014, and the lame-ass crowd is 20-25% of that. The staid setlists, and abandonment of the deep pre-Southeastern tracks are the other 75%.

I've been to DBT concerts where I don't feel like-minded with the crowd as well. There are plenty of idiot rednecks who like DBT.

Sorry to vent, but I feel like DBT fans have a huge chip on their shoulder about Jason, and nitpick him to death as much as possible. I'm sure there's some resentment that the alcoholic douchebag that got kicked out of the band has made good and surpassed DBT in popularity. I'm sure there is a feeling that new Isbell fans aren't 'real fans' because they didn't witness his early successes and failures. I just don't get shitting on them at every opportunity

Hey Zip. When was the last Isbell headlining non-festival show that you have seen? I've caught him every tour where he has played Chicago, Milwaukee, or Madison. I was present there, so I can form an opinion on the matter. In addition, I have yet to see anybody say that the new Isbell fan wasn't a real fan. I've championed his success and got gratification from watching that success from a far. I've also bought a lot of tickets to his shows during that rise from playing shows with something like 75 people there. I have essentially said thalot mt my lack of style and the way I tend to enjoy a show has been cramped a lot more than at DBT shows and old school JI and the 400 Unit shows. And that it has taken some getting used to. Period.

Smitty wrote:

Zip City wrote:How does it look, though, for a "new" Jason fan to start digging through his back catalog, search out some DBT discussion sites (here, Facebook, etc.), only to see us bashing on Jason fans? Wouldn't that turn you off to DBT forever?

All I'm saying is that we look like dicks, which is ironic since we're giving THEM shit for being pretentious

Wow, I've never fully considered the responsibilities that come with being a DBT fan and more specifically a 3DD'er. I would hate to set a bad example for the future Isbell fans of the world and turn them off of DBT forever.

But there's one thing I'm puzzled about: when exactly did you start worrying about looking like a dick?

Signed.

Zip City wrote: I've been to DBT concerts where I don't feel like-minded with the crowd as well. There are plenty of idiot rednecks who like DBT.

Zip City wrote: This posts screams of "my way of enjoying concerts is the ONLY way to enjoy concerts".

LBRod wrote:

Zip City wrote: I've been to DBT concerts where I don't feel like-minded with the crowd as well. There are plenty of idiot rednecks who like DBT.

Zip City wrote: This posts screams of "my way of enjoying concerts is the ONLY way to enjoy concerts".

I'm not telling the idiot rednecks that their way is wrong. There's the difference

But clearly you have an opinion. Like the rest of us. Also, I have fun with those red necks.

We all have opinions. But I'm not going onto the DBT Facebook page and telling the DBT fans how they should/shouldn't enjoy themselves, nor do I tell anyone at the shows. Sounds like some of the Isbell fans do (which is bullshit), but now we're telling them the same?

Zip City wrote:Song breakdown for the six-night run:

24 Frames - 6
Cover Me Up - 6
Cumberland Gap - 6
If We Were Vampires - 6

Hope the High Road - 5
Last of My Kind - 5
White Man's World - 5

Anxiety - 4
Something More Than Free - 4
Tupelo - 4

Chaos and Clothes - 3
Codeine - 3
Flying Over Water - 3
Never Gonna Change - 3
Stockholm - 3
Super 8 - 3

Alabama Pines - 2
Children of Children - 2
Decoration Day - 2
If It Takes a Lifetime - 2
The Life You Chose - 2
Molotov - 2
Outfit - 2
Something To Love - 2
Speed Trap Town - 2

The Blue
Cigarettes and Wine
Danko/Manuel
Different Days
Dress Blues
Elephant
Flagship
Goddamn Lonely Love
Go It Alone
Grown
Hudson Commodore
How to Forget
In a Razor Town
The Magician
New South Wales
Palmetto Rose
Relatively Easy
Songs That She Sang in the Shower
Tour of Duty
Traveling Alone
Try
Refugee (Petty)
You Wreck Me (Petty)
Room at the Top (Petty)
American Girl (Petty)
Listen to Your Heart (Petty)
You Got Lucky (Petty)
Storm Windows (Prine)

Well judging from this post (borrowed from the Ryman thread) I'd say Jason did pretty much everything possible to make both the old school fans and the newer ones happy.

Yeah, glad to see that he didn't play the same show six straight nights. Hoping that permeates into his touring as well

Clams wrote:

Zip City wrote:Song breakdown for the six-night run:

24 Frames - 6
Cover Me Up - 6
Cumberland Gap - 6
If We Were Vampires - 6

Hope the High Road - 5
Last of My Kind - 5
White Man's World - 5

Anxiety - 4
Something More Than Free - 4
Tupelo - 4

Chaos and Clothes - 3
Codeine - 3
Flying Over Water - 3
Never Gonna Change - 3
Stockholm - 3
Super 8 - 3

Alabama Pines - 2
Children of Children - 2
Decoration Day - 2
If It Takes a Lifetime - 2
The Life You Chose - 2
Molotov - 2
Outfit - 2
Something To Love - 2
Speed Trap Town - 2

The Blue
Cigarettes and Wine
Danko/Manuel
Different Days
Dress Blues
Elephant
Flagship
Goddamn Lonely Love
Go It Alone
Grown
Hudson Commodore
How to Forget
In a Razor Town
The Magician
New South Wales
Palmetto Rose
Relatively Easy
Songs That She Sang in the Shower
Tour of Duty
Traveling Alone
Try
Refugee (Petty)
You Wreck Me (Petty)
Room at the Top (Petty)
American Girl (Petty)
Listen to Your Heart (Petty)
You Got Lucky (Petty)
Storm Windows (Prine)

Well judging from this post (borrowed from the Ryman thread) I'd say Jason did pretty much everything possible to make both the old school fans and the newer ones happy.

Streetlights?

Zip City wrote:I feel like this board is overly sensitive about Isbell's new fanbase. Who the fuck cares?

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel.

Smitty wrote:But there's one thing I'm puzzled about: when exactly did you start worrying about looking like a dick?

Comedic gold.

cortez the killer wrote:

Smitty wrote:But there's one thing I'm puzzled about: when exactly did you start worrying about looking like a dick?

Comedic gold.

That's gold, Smitty! Gold!!!

I love going to concerts. It’s pretty much my biggest hobby and if anyone ever sees me at a concert they probably think I look uninterested. Not everyone is the jump up and down, pump their fist, scream and yell type.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:

Zip City wrote:If you went to, say, a Tom Petty concert, would you resent all the people who only knew the radio hits and none of the early stuff?

I think you kind of made my point though; Jason isn't playing DBT songs anymore, and DBT fans are annoyed by it

You're way off base. I see people at one of the most holy of all music venues in this country watching a tight ass band perform a tight as fuck cover of a Tom Petty song, who we lost just 10 days ago, and look bored I think they're disrespectful as fuck. It's a fucking privilege to be there and to hear, my expectation is that they act like it.

Going further they don't even seem all that excited at the tunes they allegedly love. The last time we saw Jason we were right up front grooving along when a girl next to me taps me on the shoulder and whispers in my ear "we only sing along to certain lines here, we don't sing along with the songs". So yeah combine some of these things and I start to resent some of his fans. Regardless of what I may think of some of his recent music I respect the fuck out of Jason and his band and I think he deserves full throated support, not some hipster bullshit.

And this person expected you to what? Shut up and follow along with their arbitrary sing along rules? She would have gotten a firm fuck off for her troubles from me. If you're not being overly disruptive or physically annoying enjoy the show how you see fit.

Kind of off topic but Jason was interviewed on the Tom Petty Birthday tribute on SiriusXM last night and it was really great. I could listen to him talk music all night and this was in conversation with Bill Flanagan and David Fricke which made it all the better. He explained why he loved Room at the Top in detail and said it was his favorite cover of his Ryman run. He also said that he’s used TP and the Heartbreakers as the blueprint for his live show which, once you think on it a minute, should have been obvious.

Tequila Cowboy wrote:Kind of off topic but Jason was interviewed on the Tom Petty Birthday tribute on SiriusXM last night and it was really great. I could listen to him talk music all night and this was in conversation with Bill Flanagan and David Fricke which made it all the better. He explained why he loved Room at the Top in detail and said it was his favorite cover of his Ryman run. He also said that he’s used TP and the Heartbreakers as the blueprint for his live show which, once you think on it a minute, should have been obvious.

If anyone finds this online anywhere, let me know...I try to listen to all of his interviews, there's always something interesting

On one, he said that his worst fear as a musician is to end up as someone doing his best impression of who he used to be. I thought it explained a lot re: his setlist choices.

I've enjoyed reading this thread so I figure I'll add my 2 cents.

I consider myself to be an Isbell fan. Among other things, the man wrote [inpo] Outfit, Cover Me Up, Dress Blues and Elephant, which is a career for most musicians. I've never liked any Jason album as much as I've liked any of several DBT albums, but I liked most of them well enough until recently. I assume Southeastern will be the high point of his current incarnation and (a) I think it's a really fine album and (b) if he continues in this incarnation w/out reaching or surpassing Southeastern, I am unlikely to have much interest in his newer music.

I am thrilled for Jason's success and wish him more of it. If it's accompanied by a resurgence of consistently great songwriting and performing I'll be doubly thrilled and will go back to buying albums and going to shows but if not he'll make his living from other folks and I think that works fine for both of us, especially for him. If he continues along what I consider to be a path of high level professionalism whether or not interrupted by the occasional flash of brilliance that's ok too and far more than most musicians are capable of.

I don't look down on Isbell's new fans, I just think they know as much about music as the average person which is not the level of interest and knowledge at which I like to experience music and music conversation. Yes I know that sounds condescending but I mean it simply as an observation along the lines of there are lots of different kinds of people in the world and I have more in common w/ some than others but it's all (or most of it, anyway) good. Those fans are welcome to their safe spaces and level of enjoyment and I will continue to treasure and hopefully protect mine. I will agree w/ them that Jason is "great" while knowing that we reach that conclusion in very different ways.

beantownbubba wrote: I don't look down on Isbell's new fans, I just think they know as much about music as the average person which is not the level of interest and knowledge at which I like to experience music and music conversation.

This seems to be a common condemnation of the newer Isbell fans, yet I don't know where it originated. Why the assumption that the average Isbell fan is ignorant of, or, at best moderately knowledgable of music?

Zip City wrote:

beantownbubba wrote: I don't look down on Isbell's new fans, I just think they know as much about music as the average person which is not the level of interest and knowledge at which I like to experience music and music conversation.

This seems to be a common condemnation of the newer Isbell fans, yet I don't know where it originated. Why the assumption that the average Isbell fan is ignorant of, or, at best moderately knowledgable of music?

First reacton: Give me a break, zip.
Second reaction: That's a reasonable and good question.

I did not mean it as "ignorant of" but did mean "moderately knowledgeable of" or "more casually interested in".

It is based on a handful of convos w/ some newer fans and reading posts/reviews in various social media by new fans as well as some amount of generalizing based on having seen this pattern innumerable times (early fans v. later fans; debates about whether the later music measures up, etc). They are fervent in their love for and appreciation of Jason's music but their overall level of knowledge about music and their general taste in music to the extent it's apparent is different from mine and whose relationship to music is less intense and emotional than mine. Again, I want to stress different, not worse (and yes in my younger days I most definitely would have meant "worse" but now I just as definitely don't). It would probably be an overstatement but not that big of one to say that I categorize this type of newer fan as the kind of people who do not confuse rock n roll w/ the meaning of life, whose lives have not been changed by rock n roll either figuratively or literally and who generally enjoy music as a pleasant diversion as opposed to as a fundamental requirement of life exceeded only by oxygen and water.

I'd say that's the difference between 3DDers and other music fans more than between DBT fans and new Isbell fans, though. There are certainly a great many DBT fans who fit your profile of Isbell fans, they just aren't the ones who make their way here. Likewise, I'm sure there are new Isbell fans who live and die with music.

tl;dr, it's a generalization that I don't necessarily agree with, and that sounds snobby even if its not intended to be