Jason Isbell - Something More Than Free 7/17

[ScottyG]

somebody hook a brother up!

I am a student of the "download the leak, pay for it when it comes out" school.

And while you are at it, can someone hook another brother up? Specifically this brother?

[Iowan]

If there's a bright side to this, it doesn't seem like the leak really got much traction. I can't find anyone other than us discussing it online and the album hasn't made its way to any of the major torrent sites. There's not much chatter on twitter about it, either, so I'm guessing this just kind of fades into the background and the album leaks widely the week before it comes out like every other album these days.

What is this bright side you're speaking of?

Exactly. I download leaked copies of new albums by my favorite artists whenever I can, because I think the whole "record it and wait 3 months to put it out" thing is bullshit and I want to hear this music.

Then I buy it when it comes out. Then I go to their shows when they play within 4 hours of me. If someone thinks I'm cheating the artist with this process, they can fuck right off.

[jh13]

If there's a bright side to this, it doesn't seem like the leak really got much traction. I can't find anyone other than us discussing it online and the album hasn't made its way to any of the major torrent sites. There's not much chatter on twitter about it, either, so I'm guessing this just kind of fades into the background and the album leaks widely the week before it comes out like every other album these days.

What is this bright side you're speaking of?

Exactly. I download leaked copies of new albums by my favorite artists whenever I can, because I think the whole "record it and wait 3 months to put it out" thing is bullshit and I want to hear this music.

Then I buy it when it comes out. Then I go to their shows when they play within 4 hours of me. If someone thinks I'm cheating the artist with this process, they can fuck right off.

I agree and am in the same boat. I don't feel guilty about downloading and listening to leaked music because I know I support the artists by buying vinyl, mp3's, tickets & shirts.

The bright side comment was really referring to Jason and his camp. This is a hugely anticipated album and it would suck if the leak was all over the internet three months before release and getting a ton of press on music blogs driving more and more people to download it early. We're the die-hards who are going to buy it no matter what, but there are a ton of people out there who wouldn't buy it if they were able to grab it off a blog. Hell, these days a lot of people aren't going to buy it anyway and will just stream it on Spotify when it's finally released. Anything that's going to cut into the already limited amount of sales this, or really any, album gets these days is a bad thing.

Sorry if my initial comment came of as hypocritical or self-righteous. I was really just commenting on the fact that we're all referring to this as a shit-storm, but the rest of the internet doesn't seem to have even noticed it.

[jh13]

This is a quote from Jim James from My Morning Jacket commenting on their latest album The Waterfall leaking over a month early. I think it's probably the best comment I've ever heard from an artist regarding their work being leaked.

"leaks are strange. i think they are unfair because sometimes they happen when perhaps the music is not ready to be heard. but perhaps it is ready to be heard? it is tough. the music industry is fucked because- you already get the album for free on streaming services…so you dont even have to buy it anymore! you dont even have to steal it anymore!!!! i guess i am flattered anyone wants to leak our album at all so in the grand scheme of things who fucking cares right? i mean shit people cant afford health insurance so phew jesus i mean shit is crazy!!! i do feel like if you really love a band you should support them in some way- go to a show. buy a record even if you already stream it/stole it. but in other ways it makes me happy that people with no money can now stream everything for free. that is pretty sweet because music is for everyone and music should be free and easy blowin in the breeze BUT BUT BUT it does cost a lot of money to make music and musicians are hard working people just like a plumber or an electrician you can download and steal(yet) the pipes you need for your toilet so you shouldnt steal from hard working musicians either who are also just trying to put food on the table and keep the lights on"

[Clams]

Instead of discussing the leak can we please get busy spreading it

[beantownbubba]

Beware the man. For all we know this has all been orchestrated by Jason's people to stir the pot, start the buzz, etc. Or maybe they want to put Jason squarely in the Taylor Swift camp of "this is mine and you will pay" for whatever political/business reasons might be out there. Or maybe they simply want to control the process and they're legitimately pissed that this got out despite their best efforts. The point is, we don't know and I wouldn't assume anything, however high and mighty they might claim to be.

There are plenty of reasons artists don't release albums as soon as they're done. Most of them relate in one way or another to the business people involved believing that they can control and manipulate the release/sale/distribution process to the advantage of their artist. That was undoubtedly true in, like, 1980. I have my doubts about it these days, but hey, everybody's gotta justify the piece they take out of the artist, right?

Zip, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[rlipps]

Instead of discussing the leak can we please get busy spreading it

x2

[LastLawson]

Instead of discussing the leak can we please get busy spreading it

x2

third time's the charm?

[StormandStatic]

I'm on board with that too, but consider this: we haven't had a single officially released yet. Albums almost never leak at that stage, and it means that absolutely all promotion being done is catch up. We can't even pre-order the thing yet. Just food for thought.

[Iowan]

Beware the man. For all we know this has all been orchestrated by Jason's people to stir the pot, start the buzz, etc. Or maybe they want to put Jason squarely in the Taylor Swift camp of "this is mine and you will pay" for whatever political/business reasons might be out there. Or maybe they simply want to control the process and they're legitimately pissed that this got out despite their best efforts. The point is, we don't know and I wouldn't assume anything, however high and mighty they might claim to be.

There are plenty of reasons artists don't release albums as soon as they're done. Most of them relate in one way or another to the business people involved believing that they can control and manipulate the release/sale/distribution process to the advantage of their artist. That was undoubtedly true in, like, 1980. I have my doubts about it these days, but hey, everybody's gotta justify the piece they take out of the artist, right?

Zip, you have no idea what you're talking about.

That's going to end up in a sig line.

[dbtfan4life]

Clams and Iowan make really good points

[dbtfan4life]

So wheres my copy?! haha between Isbell and the DBT I've seen over 70 shows since 05

[Anodyne]

I get that the three month delay is probably necessary just to get the vinyl pressed (hopefully) in time for release date and to do all the pre-release press, but yeah, I'm dying to hear this thing. Just secured tickets for the four-night stand at the Ryman and am already counting the days.

[ford911]

Pass that this way.

[Tha Criddler]

I have places where leaks pop up quick and the record is nowhere to be found.
Jason fans are apparently doing a good job of keeping this to themselves.
That said anyone have it to share?

[brett27295]

I didn't download it because Cooley has a mortgage

I did download it because I wanted to hear it, then bought it when it came out. Cooley's bank account wasn't affected at all by me downloading a leak. Hell, even Patterson admitted to downloading leaks a few years back.

I downloaded it and then bought two copies on vinyl when it came out (the standard version and the blue vinyl bootleg version) bought tickets to 10 EO shows, 2 t shirts, multiple posters, etc. Probably spent enough to pay Cooley's mortgage one month. I feel zero guilt for downloading leaks because they always get the money back ten fold. If I get a hold of Jason's leak he won't lose money on me either.

[Tequila Cowboy]

With the noises that came out of that camp last week I wouldn't touch a leak of the record with a ten foot pole. Those people were angry and looking to string people up. No thank you, music is important to me but not that important. I will enjoy the record on 7/17.

[Duke Silver]

Devil's advocate: Even if you walk up Cooley's driveway and literally hand him a mortgage payment, it doesn't entitle you to steal his music.

[Iowan]

Devil's advocate: Even if you walk up Cooley's driveway and literally hand him a mortgage payment, it doesn't entitle you to steal his music.

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

Theft is a taking with intent to permanently deprive. If you download a leaked album and buy it later, there is no theft because you obviously didn't intend to deprive them of the value.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Devil's advocate: Even if you walk up Cooley's driveway and literally hand him a mortgage payment, it doesn't entitle you to steal his music.

It does not and I don't blame Jason and his people being upset. DBT and JI are also very different beasts right now. Cooley said in an interview years ago that he more or less looks at the records as loss leaders and hopes they get people to go to the shows and buy some merch. I'm sure that some of that was just resignation and some was his real opinion but either way Jason's model right now is not that. He's rapidly building a large fanbase and he sold over 150,000 copies of Southeastern. It's pretty likely that he could double that this time out and for the genre those are huge numbers. A leak hurts their strategy to grow his brand and it matters to them. Most of the new crowd of Jason Isbell fans don't strike me as the kind of people that go out and buy 10 copies of the record and give them away to friends just to support his career although I could be wrong. Sales are important and anything that takes away from that is a problem.

[Duke Silver]

Devil's advocate: Even if you walk up Cooley's driveway and literally hand him a mortgage payment, it doesn't entitle you to steal his music.

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

Theft is a taking with intent to permanently deprive. If you download a leaked album and buy it later, there is no theft because you obviously didn't intend to deprive them of the value.

It's a gray area for sure, but I would say at best it still contributes to a culture of entitlement amongst music consumers..."I'll pay you for your work, but on my terms, not yours."

[brett27295]

It's a gray area for sure, but I would say at best it still contributes to a culture of entitlement amongst music consumers..."I'll pay you for your work, but on my terms, not yours."

Yet all these albums stream for free on Spotify and the like once they are released. To me that causes artists to lose far more money than rabid fans downloading a leak. I suspect that 95% of people who go to the trouble of seeking out a leak turn around and buy it once it's released and purchase tickets to shows, etc.

[Iowan]

Devil's advocate: Even if you walk up Cooley's driveway and literally hand him a mortgage payment, it doesn't entitle you to steal his music.

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

Theft is a taking with intent to permanently deprive. If you download a leaked album and buy it later, there is no theft because you obviously didn't intend to deprive them of the value.

It's a gray area for sure, but I would say at best it still contributes to a culture of entitlement amongst music consumers..."I'll pay you for your work, but on my terms, not yours."

IMO, if you buy it at all, it's on "their" terms. You aren't the one setting the price.

I agree with the bolded.

[Zip City]

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

[Duke Silver]

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

Theft is a taking with intent to permanently deprive. If you download a leaked album and buy it later, there is no theft because you obviously didn't intend to deprive them of the value.

It's a gray area for sure, but I would say at best it still contributes to a culture of entitlement amongst music consumers..."I'll pay you for your work, but on my terms, not yours."

IMO, if you buy it at all, it's on "their" terms. You aren't the one setting the price.

I agree with the bolded.

You're right, you're not setting the price, but you're paying them long after you've taken ownership of the product, for all intents and purposes. That's what I mean by "your terms." Artists bend over backwards enough as it is nowadays to give listeners the chance to "try before they buy," with official streams through NPR, Rolling Stone, etc. Grabbing the leak just seems kinda...presumptuous to me.

Brett, if you really think that 95% of people who download leaks go on to purchase the album, I have some bad news for you about the current state of the music industry.

[brett27295]

Brett, if you really think that 95% of people who download leaks go on to purchase the album, I have some bad news for you about the current state of the music industry.

Or purchased tickets and merch. I stand by that statement. Who seeks out leaks? Fans, that's who. People who download a leak but don't purchase it when it comes out or buy tickets to shows wouldn't have purchased it anyhow without downloading the leak.

[Duke Silver]

Brett, if you really think that 95% of people who download leaks go on to purchase the album, I have some bad news for you about the current state of the music industry.

Or purchased tickets and merch. I stand by that statement. Who seeks out leaks? Fans, that's who. People who download a leak but don't purchase it when it comes out or buy tickets to shows wouldn't have purchased it anyhow without downloading the leak.

If we're only talking about hardcore music nerds like us here at 3DD, you might be right about the 95% thing. But big picture...people downloading the files for free and never throwing a single cent at the artist is what necessitated Spotify/streaming in the first place...a way to monetize the freeloaders, which is pretty much everyone at this point.

[Iowan]

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

But Wimpy didn't ever pay.

[zoid]

Counter point. If you pay him for the music later are you still stealing?

But Wimpy didn't ever pay.

He never said which Tuesday... Give him time.

[Sub]

Anyone feel free to pm me.

I'm not dead yet.