Tequila Cowboy wrote:Albums are about much more than good songs.
To an extent, I agree with you. However, the most important ingredient, by far, is the quality of songs. A similar statement could be steak & cheese hoagies are about much more than good steak. That's true, also. What kind of cheese does one go with? What kind of roll is it on? Mayo or no mayo? Ketchup or no ketchup? Onions? Mushrooms? Peppers? These are all important components/options for a great steak & cheese hoagie. However, the quality, cut & preparation of the steak is, by far, the most important ingredient. For the record, I'm a cheese whiz, onion & ketchup guy on a freshly baked Amoroso roll.
For the record, there's no such thing as a "steak & cheese hoagie." If it's got steak, then it's a steak sandwich. Hoagies are made with lunchmeats and have lettuce, tomato, etc and aren't served hot like a steak. Every now and then you will see something called a "cheesesteak hoagie" but that's more of a steak than a hoagie - it's basically a steak sandwich that has lettuce and tomato like a hoagie but it doesn't have any lunchmeat. And no one ever puts mayo on a steak sandwich. People will sometimes use ketchup, but IMO it's bad form. Van is from South Philly and I think he'll back me up on all this. Nothing wrong with whiz, fried onions and an Amoroso roll though, that's for sure.
I agree with Clams 100% on this one.
As far as cheese steaks go "John Roast Pork" have the best in the city. Located at Front and Snyder near Columbus Blvd. They are not to far from Gino's & Pats.
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Albums are about much more than good songs.
To an extent, I agree with you. However, the most important ingredient, by far, is the quality of songs. A similar statement could be steak & cheese hoagies are about much more than good steak. That's true, also. What kind of cheese does one go with? What kind of roll is it on? Mayo or no mayo? Ketchup or no ketchup? Onions? Mushrooms? Peppers? These are all important components/options for a great steak & cheese hoagie. However, the quality, cut & preparation of the steak is, by far, the most important ingredient. For the record, I'm a cheese whiz, onion & ketchup guy on a freshly baked Amoroso roll.
For the record, there's no such thing as a "steak & cheese hoagie." If it's got steak, then it's a steak sandwich. Hoagies are made with lunchmeats and have lettuce, tomato, etc and aren't served hot like a steak. Every now and then you will see something called a "cheesesteak hoagie" but that's more of a steak than a hoagie - it's basically a steak sandwich that has lettuce and tomato like a hoagie but it doesn't have any lunchmeat. And no one ever puts mayo on a steak sandwich. People will sometimes use ketchup, but IMO it's bad form. Van is from South Philly and I think he'll back me up on all this. Nothing wrong with whiz, fried onions and an Amoroso roll though, that's for sure.
I hear you on the hoagie front, Clams. An oddly detailed response to a sandwich analogy, but I get the why & how on your response to me.
I always thought ketchup on a cheesesteak was gauche. However, while living in Philly, my officemate picked me up a cheesesteak w/ ketchup for lunch & I've never looked back since. As far as I'm concerned, it's the only way to go. Personally, I am opposed to mayo on a cheesesteak, but I know several people who swear by it.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Albums are about much more than good songs.
To an extent, I agree with you. However, the most important ingredient, by far, is the quality of songs. A similar statement could be steak & cheese hoagies are about much more than good steak. That's true, also. What kind of cheese does one go with? What kind of roll is it on? Mayo or no mayo? Ketchup or no ketchup? Onions? Mushrooms? Peppers? These are all important components/options for a great steak & cheese hoagie. However, the quality, cut & preparation of the steak is, by far, the most important ingredient. For the record, I'm a cheese whiz, onion & ketchup guy on a freshly baked Amoroso roll.
For the record, there's no such thing as a "steak & cheese hoagie." If it's got steak, then it's a steak sandwich. Hoagies are made with lunchmeats and have lettuce, tomato, etc and aren't served hot like a steak. Every now and then you will see something called a "cheesesteak hoagie" but that's more of a steak than a hoagie - it's basically a steak sandwich that has lettuce and tomato like a hoagie but it doesn't have any lunchmeat. And no one ever puts mayo on a steak sandwich. People will sometimes use ketchup, but IMO it's bad form. Van is from South Philly and I think he'll back me up on all this. Nothing wrong with whiz, fried onions and an Amoroso roll though, that's for sure.
I posted a link to these maps in the Accidental Racist thread but here's one that relates to the turn this thread has taken just in case you haven't seen it.
Des Moines has an unusually high amount of Italians for the Midwest, and thus lots of Italian style delis. At all of those places a Grinder was a type of loose meat sandwich made with spicy sausage, onions, peppers, and tomato sauce that has cheese melted over top. God, I'm hungry thinking about it...
When Isbell was young, his father, Mike Isbell, worked as a house painter in Greenhill, which is in rural northern Alabama. There wasn’t much to the town but liquor stores and speed traps, Isbell says.
Lauderdale County is dry, there are no liquor stores in Green Hill. They have to either drive to the Tennessee state line or Florence.
Sometimes you gotta know when to print the legend and when to leave the facts in, or something like that.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
RevMatt wrote:Alternative universe question time: If The Boss was dropped by Columbia after his second album -- meaning no Born To Run -- would the first two Springsteen albums still seem as great to you?
Interesting question. And a related one: if DBT decided to be a part time band after the first two albums -- meaning no SRO -- would you still hold the Gangstabilly and Pizza Deliverance in such esteem? I think it is a fair question and one that we really can't answer.
Whoa, Rev Matt, you are opening one hell of a can of worms here. I love it and I hope more people take u up on the challenge. You devil you.
Having said that, I guess I have to respond: If Springsteen had never become Springsteen, Greetings would have sunk w/out a trace. I've said it before, the only things that kept that album afloat were Springsteen's subsequent reputation and the live versions of several of the key songs. The Wild, The Innocent... is a harder one to figure and i don't have a good answer for that one.
As for the early DBT records, I'd say that the later ones kept the early ones in play, so to speak, long enough for more people to find more good in them. I still don't think they're great albums, but I have stuck w/ 'em enough to appreciate how good the best parts of them are, and that's because of their later work and later live versions of some of those early songs.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
I think I would still absolutely love Pizza Deliverance although maybe not as fanatic; Gangstabilly is tougher to say, since many of the songs I love on there I probably wouldn't pay as much attention to if I hadn't heard live versions (Living Bubba, 18 Wheels, Why Henry Drinks). I'm in the camp that believes had it not been for Born to Run (or a comparable album), Springsteen's first two albums would be similar to other largely forgotten seventies acts. Definitely not considered classics.
Smitty wrote:I think I would still absolutely love Pizza Deliverance although maybe not as fanatic; Gangstabilly is tougher to say, since many of the songs I love on there I probably wouldn't pay as much attention to if I hadn't heard live versions (Living Bubba, 18 Wheels, Why Henry Drinks). I'm in the camp that believes had it not been for Born to Run (or a comparable album), Springsteen's first two albums would be similar to other largely forgotten seventies acts. Definitely not considered classics.
I don't know. Greetings... & The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle are amazing records. My two favorites by a country mile. Greetings (and The Wild, The Innocent... to a lesser degree) holds up to repeated listens for me better than most other albums in his catalog. I never tire of it and the same cannot be said for records like Born To Run which can absolutely be overplayed and I sometimes have to go years without playing them (I am truly sorry for the headache I'm causing Beantown btw but I gotta be me). Without a breakout from Springsteen they would probably be thought of a hidden gems like a lot of folks think of the likes of Harry Nillson or Steve Forbert, not household names but true music fans still get it.
Back on topic though, with the same angle, I often think this community puts too much emphasis on popularity in terms of legacy. I think most of think that Jason Isbell is on the cusp of some sort of a breakout but if he doesn't make it does that mean that he hasn't been one of the best songwriters of the last 10 years? Big Star didn't sell a lick and they are now rightly considered one of the greatest, and most important, bands of all time and that's the thing isn't it? Time is the great equalizer and records that sold and those didn't end up being judged equally when viewed through the lens of history. If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it does it make a sound? In my worldview, yes, it absolutely does.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
