Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by njMark »

After listening to this album for a while, I'm going to have to revise my earlier love for it and say its got a short shelf life for me. I thought those who were lukewarm about it were just not hearing it right but now I think they're right. A good album and all but not going to be played too often anymore for me.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

njMark wrote:After listening to this album for a while, I'm going to have to revise my earlier love for it and say its got a short shelf life for me. I thought those who were lukewarm about it were just not hearing it right but now I think they're right. A good album and all but not going to be played too often anymore for me.


Really? I don't think I've gone two days without listening to it since it was released and don't see it changing anytime soon.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Duke Silver »

njMark wrote:After listening to this album for a while, I'm going to have to revise my earlier love for it and say its got a short shelf life for me. I thought those who were lukewarm about it were just not hearing it right but now I think they're right. A good album and all but not going to be played too often anymore for me.


After binging on it initially, I'm finding that I have this weird relationship with Southeastern where I respect it on an intellectual level, but rarely find myself actually wanting to listen to it. Not sure why. I actually listened to part of it last night for the first time since probably July.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by RevMatt »

I understand why people on this board might not like Southeastern. Some will probably prefer Here We Rest while others would rather listen to a DBT record. Isbell's songwriting and playing has changed a lot since 2007. He's become much more melodic. Even his approach to Muscle Shoals soul is different from DBT's -- "Heart on a String" vs. "Everybody Needs Love" and "Where's Eddie". But taken on their own terms, the songs on Southeastern are among the best he's written.

He's also been very much influenced by Ryan Adams, IMO. I had a discussion with a good friend of mine the other day about how Ryan Adams and Jack White are probably have the biggest influence on young bands these days, at least from what I hear in the clubs. I kind of scoffed at that, saying that Jack White wasn't as good as The Stooges, The Cramps, etc... But I said if you were born in 1980 The White Stripes would have been your introduction to that kind of music and they were the ones who got that generation listening to The Stooges, The Cramps, Jesus and The Mary Chain, etc... Likewise, if you were an 18 or 19 year old college student in 1998 who wrote songs wouldn't Ryan Adams, the guy who formed Whiskeytown, be a hero to you?
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by gepman »

njMark wrote:After listening to this album for a while, I'm going to have to revise my earlier love for it and say its got a short shelf life for me. I thought those who were lukewarm about it were just not hearing it right but now I think they're right. A good album and all but not going to be played too often anymore for me.


The recent tour and tv appearances have me still listening... Not nearly as often as initially, but I can't think of many albums that I've listened to at the same rate I did when it was newer.
What the live shows have done for me is have more appreciation for "Flying Over Water" (because they rawk it live), "Super 8" (great show closer / near closer) , and "Relatively Easy" (Just kinda grew on me). On the flipside, "Different Days" is the only skipper for me now...

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Smitty »

I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's been NPR'ed. I'm not saying it's not genuine, but his music seems tailor-made for a larger audience now; whatever edge he possessed is gone. There are some songs I absolutely love on Southeastern, but the Isbell I initially obsessed over is gone and I guess it was inevitable. At this point, wanting Jason to write another "Danko & Manuel" or "Goddamn Lonely Love" is like wanting Springsteen to write another "Born to Run" post-"Darkness"; the moment is gone, for better or worse. I love the attention he's getting and hope he makes the fucking cover of Rolling Stone, but for the most part IMO his new material as well by written by Ray Lamontagne or Justin Townes Earle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him working with Buddy Miller or T-Bone Burnett for his next record.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Smitty wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's been NPR'ed. I'm not saying it's not genuine, but his music seems tailor-made for a larger audience now; whatever edge he possessed is gone. There are some songs I absolutely love on Southeastern, but the Isbell I initially obsessed over is gone and I guess it was inevitable. At this point, wanting Jason to write another "Danko & Manuel" or "Goddamn Lonely Love" is like wanting Springsteen to write another "Born to Run" post-"Darkness"; the moment is gone, for better or worse. I love the attention he's getting and hope he makes the fucking cover of Rolling Stone, but for the most part IMO his new material as well by written by Ray Lamontagne or Justin Townes Earle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him working with Buddy Miller or T-Bone Burnett for his next record.


Ok, but aren't Justin Townes Earle and Ray Lamontagne pretty acceptable peers? Up until this record, from a consistency standpoint, I wouldn't have put Jason's solo career output up with either of those guys.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Smitty »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
Smitty wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's been NPR'ed. I'm not saying it's not genuine, but his music seems tailor-made for a larger audience now; whatever edge he possessed is gone. There are some songs I absolutely love on Southeastern, but the Isbell I initially obsessed over is gone and I guess it was inevitable. At this point, wanting Jason to write another "Danko & Manuel" or "Goddamn Lonely Love" is like wanting Springsteen to write another "Born to Run" post-"Darkness"; the moment is gone, for better or worse. I love the attention he's getting and hope he makes the fucking cover of Rolling Stone, but for the most part IMO his new material as well by written by Ray Lamontagne or Justin Townes Earle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him working with Buddy Miller or T-Bone Burnett for his next record.


Ok, but aren't Justin Townes Earle and Ray Lamontagne pretty acceptable peers? Up until this record, from a consistency standpoint, I wouldn't have put Jason's solo career output up with either of those guys.


Of course. I like (or love in some cases) them both, but there's a distinctiveness that sets his work with DBT (and SOTD) away from that fare and that seems to be gone. Like I said, I guess it was inevitable; maybe Patterson & Cooley are more convenient in that sense because of their age, although they both "matured" as songwriters and still stayed unique AND interesting (I'm speaking for me, obviously not for anyone else as Southeastern is his most widely acclaimed record yet). It's still good-to-great songs, but at the same time possesses a certain shade of bland. I also don't care to hear any "don't compare his new shit to his old shit" shit; just can it. You set a bar you better be ready to hold yourself to it.
I also understand that some (alot) will hold a "Flying Over Water" or "Stockholm" in higher regard than "Goddamn Lonely Love" or "The Day John Henry Died". I just ain't one of them. One of those "it's not you, it's me" situations I guess.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Iowan »

Sorry Smitty, I don't think you can compare his DBT output to his solo out put for several reasons:

1) Writing 2-3 songs every couple years is a whole different animal than writing an entire album.

2) He doesn't have Cooley, Patterson, and EZB playing with him. Different band, with totally different sensibilities.

Now, I think it's fully fair to compare all of his post DBT work against itself.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Cubfan06 »

Smitty wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's been NPR'ed. I'm not saying it's not genuine, but his music seems tailor-made for a larger audience now; whatever edge he possessed is gone. There are some songs I absolutely love on Southeastern, but the Isbell I initially obsessed over is gone and I guess it was inevitable. At this point, wanting Jason to write another "Danko & Manuel" or "Goddamn Lonely Love" is like wanting Springsteen to write another "Born to Run" post-"Darkness"; the moment is gone, for better or worse. I love the attention he's getting and hope he makes the fucking cover of Rolling Stone, but for the most part IMO his new material as well by written by Ray Lamontagne or Justin Townes Earle. I wouldn't be surprised to see him working with Buddy Miller or T-Bone Burnett for his next record.


I really have connected with the past two Isbell studio albums, more so than the previous ones as a whole. Sirens of the Ditch had some absolute classics, however it had some duds to my ears. Self titled had very little that impressed me and had one of my top 10 favorite songwriters not written, it likely would have gotten only the proverbial three listens in my stereo and have been put away for likely the end of time. I felt like Here We Rest as an album was his strongest to date, only to be trumped by Southeastern.

I understand your thought process in saying that his "edge" being gone. But songs that had a little more horsepower or "edge" to me from his DBT catalog felt more forced and awkward to me. This is sac-religious for me to even say but I include Never Gonna Change and Easy on Yourself in that category. "Danko/Manuel", "Goddamn Lonely Love", "Outfit", "Decoration Day" are absolute classics. It amazes me how somebody could write songs that good. But they are also played with the Drive By Truckers backing him. When played on any of his acoustic shows that one pick up, one couldn't listen to the songs from the core and think they have significantly more edge than the HWR or Southeastern songs played side by side. I generally believe that this is the direction which best suits him at this time in his life. And these are the stories that he authentically wants to tell. "Elephant" has just as much edge as a song and story as the aforementioned DBT classics I named above, but the production and playing was meant to be different.

I've mentioned in nausea in other threads, but the last full JI and the 400 Unit show I saw at the end of last year had a mind-blowing balance both of intensity and calm. I am blessed to be seeing JI and the 400 Unit on October 26th and DBT on Halloween within days of each other. After all, I don't get to see shows on a weekly basis as a Dad, like I used. But I honestly can't decide which of the two shows I am more stoked to see. And the good thing is that I don't need to decide. However, that really shows how much progress as a live artist that Jason and the 400 Unit have made as a band over the past two years.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

Listen Smitty you are not only entitled to your own opinion you really don't have to explain it, although I suppose I asked you to. Your position, as I've understood it since the record came out, is that you think it's a fine singer/songwriter album but you thought Isbell was a guy who had the potential to transcend that. I think that's fair, I'm not even sure that I disagree with the essence of it but to hold those hopes of transcendence you would have to hope that he would rise to the level of guys like Bob Dylan, Townes Van Zandt and few others. I've lived through too many "next Bob Dylan"'s to ever put that burden on a songwriter, particularly one I like as much as Jason Isbell. As long as he continues to write songs of the quality of Traveling Alone, Live Oak and the occasional incredible brilliance of a Elephant, Decoration Day or Dress Blues , I'll take what he's offering.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Smitty wrote:It's still good-to-great songs, but at the same time possesses a certain shade of bland.


Practically Christgau-ian there, smitty. Combine w/ your earlier "NPR'd" observation and you've got the makings of a classic review. With which I agree.

The Lamontagne/JTE comparison is interesting because it raises the questions "what should our expectations be and when do they become unfair to the artist?" Damned if I know, but it does tend toward a conclusion that Southeastern is not a masterpiece.

On edit: I did not see TC's last before posting mine, but if you think the last 2 sentences I wrote bear a striking resemblance to what TC said, that's because they do.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Iowan »

I just heard "Stockholm" on my secretary's radio. So there's that.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

beantownbubba wrote:
Smitty wrote:It's still good-to-great songs, but at the same time possesses a certain shade of bland.


Practically Christgau-ian there, smitty. Combine w/ your earlier "NPR'd" observation and you've got the makings of a classic review. With which I agree.

The Lamontagne/JTE comparison is interesting because it raises the questions "what should our expectations be and when do they become unfair to the artist?" Damned if I know, but it does tend toward a conclusion that Southeastern is not a masterpiece.

On edit: I did not see TC's last before posting mine, but if you think the last 2 sentences I wrote bear a striking resemblance to what TC said, that's because they do.


Yep, I think we're on the same page or at least very close to it. The one thing I'll add is that while Southeastern might not be a masterpiece in the larger context (or, to put it directly, in the way Blood On The Tracks or Blonde on Blonde is a masterpiece) I'd to be tempted to go out on a limb and say that Southeastern is Jason's personal masterpiece. Sure it's a clear distinction but hardly damning with faint praise.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by beantownbubba »

Iowan wrote:I just heard "Stockholm" on my secretary's radio. So there's that.


You have a secretary? :o
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Iowan »

beantownbubba wrote:
Iowan wrote:I just heard "Stockholm" on my secretary's radio. So there's that.


You have a secretary? :o


Yup. And I still have far less support staff than any of my peers in surrounding jurisdictions, being as most places my size have 2 attorneys and a secretary, not just one attorney.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Zip City »

Outside of a few songs, which DBT era Isbell songs were "edgy"? They're among the most melodic songs in the DBT catalog. He wasn't exactly writing songs like PPotM or Lookout Mountain
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Iowan »

Decoration Day and Never Gonna Change had more edge than what we see out of Jason now.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Zip City »

Iowan wrote:Decoration Day and Never Gonna Change had more edge than what we see out of Jason now.


As TC said, though, that's more arrangements than songwriting
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by lotusamerica »

Different ears, different sensibilities, different moments in time.

It doesn't bother me when TC or Rev Matt make objective-sounding statements about what is good and what is best, etc., but really we all just hold our own subjective opinions in the end. I still think S/T is his best solo record, but most of you disagree. Doesn't change it for me and secretly I believe that some day, you'll "get it." ha ha

To me, this isn't a fun record, and it isn't an intense record and it isn't a challenging record and I admire it but it is so minimalistic and surface-oriented that once digested, it hasn't really pulled me back except for a song or two here and there. The songs are good to great, and his voice is outstanding, but I don't find the insights about his life very interesting, and many of the arrangements seem pretty uninspired to me (I get the argument that unadorned is not the same as uninspired, and there are some I see more that way). But I also just like music a little more raw or tortured or fun or something more emotional (Elephant aside), which is the same problem I had with Go Go Boots, which was also pretty bland to my ears.

Still a fan, though, and wished I'd seen him on this tour, and looking forward to the future...

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Iowan »

Zip City wrote:
Iowan wrote:Decoration Day and Never Gonna Change had more edge than what we see out of Jason now.


As TC said, though, that's more arrangements than songwriting


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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Zip City »

Iowan wrote:
Zip City wrote:
Iowan wrote:Decoration Day and Never Gonna Change had more edge than what we see out of Jason now.


As TC said, though, that's more arrangements than songwriting


"Put a chain to my back and my ear to the floor and I'll send all the Hill boys to Hell".


No edgier than anything in Live Oak. You could make a DBT-esque rockin' arrangement of Live Oak, and you can make an acoustic guitar/fiddle arrangement of Decoration Day
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Cubfan06 »

Zip City wrote:No edgier than anything in Live Oak. You could make a DBT-esque rockin' arrangement of Live Oak, and you can make an acoustic guitar/fiddle arrangement of Decoration Day


Absolutely my thoughts. Cover Me Up could be a lot "edgier" in production if it was intended to be as well as "Elephant" and a few others on the album.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Kudzu Guillotine »

It probably goes without saying as I'm pretty sure I've heard Jason say himself but when he was in the Truckers, he tailored his songs to their style. As time went by I think that may have become less true, especially by A Blessing And A Curse. Oddly enough, the two songs I felt that were closer to Truckers territory on that album ("TVA" and "When The Well Runs Dry") didn't make the cut.

Perhaps Smitty has already touched on it but I believe the way Jason doesn't really mix up his setlists also lends a certain safeness to his sound these days. On the other hand, I really haven't seen him multiple times on the same tour so it doesn't really bother me that much.

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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by RevMatt »

Jason also made significant developments as a songwriter with each record.

His two contributions to Decoration Day show a tremendous debt to his mentor, Patterson Hood. At the same time he shows himself capable of putting some distance between the songwriter and his subject matter, even if that subject is himself or his family. "Outfit" can be anybody's father from that time and place.

On The Dirty South he showed something new, something neither Cooley nor Hood had shown in a song. He starts with a concrete image, point of view and subject matter but changes it somehow, making it more abstract. When he started writing "Danko/Manuel" it was going to be a straight forward song from Levon Helm's point of view after hearing about the deaths of his bandmates. But by the time he finished it there was a second level of the song: the young songwriter at the beginning of his career, when everyone in the industry is blowing smoke, comparing him to Danko. The two narratives run simultaneously. It is almost like an abstract painting here, where two separate images are superimposed on each other. He did a similar thing with "The Day John Henry Died".

The final years with DBT were when he wrote his two contributions to ABAAC, "TVA", "When The Well Runs Dry" and the songs that appeared on SOTD which he recorded with members of DBT. He was exploring different musical directions in this time. Perhaps the signature song of this period is "Dress Blues". From reading the interviews over the years, there was some discussion among members of DBT about the appropriateness of Jason's newer songs for that band.

The self titled album was as much about his new band, The 400 Unit, discovering their own sound as it was about Jason's new songs. IMO, the two best songs from this record are "Seven-Mile Island" and "Cigarettes and Wine". Not a great record.

IMO, the turning point in Jason's songwriting career is not getting sober and then putting out Southeastern. It was when he began writing the songs for Here We Rest. He also shows a new side to his songwriting: presenting a lyric and song so the listener is hooked initially believing the song is about one thing but later revealing itself to be much darker. "Alabama Pines" is the money shot here. Initially, you think the song is about a guy living someplace else reminiscing fondly about his home in Alabama. But the song is really about a down and out alcoholic who nobody wants to be around, who has squandered everything, is at his final stop before he dies alone, some shitty motel room with no AC. The only way he is getting back to Alabama is in a pine box. It is a song about death. This is where he starts writing songs with the lyrical style and musical strategy of Townes Van Zandt.

To me, Southeastern is a continuation of what began with Here We Rest. The sobriety/marriage angle makes for a new muse as well as a great story for the fans and press to lap up. It is his coming out party. His emergence from the DBT shadow. But I will contend that from an artistic standpoint he stepped out of the DBT shadow with the previous record.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

TVA was the first song Jason ever played for Patterson. It just wasn't recorded until the ABAAC sessions.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by RevMatt »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:TVA was the first song Jason ever played for Patterson. It just wasn't recorded until the ABAAC sessions.

Yeah, I knew I'd fuck that one up somehow. But I was feeling ambitious and got on a roll...
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Zip City »

citation needed for RevMatt's theory on Alabama Pines. At the 2012 Americana Music Awards (where he won song of the year), he pretty much said the song was about being on the road in a shitty motel room, thinking of home. He thanked "all the terrible north Florida hotels"
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by RevMatt »

Zip City wrote:citation needed for RevMatt's theory on Alabama Pines. At the 2012 Americana Music Awards (where he won song of the year), he pretty much said the song was about being on the road in a shitty motel room, thinking of home. He thanked "all the terrible north Florida hotels"

The guy turns a night in a shitty motel room into "Alabama Pines". I'm in awe. For me a night in a shitty motel room means a morning cup of bad coffee at the continental breakfast and two Imodiums 45 minutes into the drive.
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Re: Jason Isbell: Southeastern Album Thread

Post by Zip City »

I really think you're reading too much into the song.
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