Welcome to Club XIII

[Tequila Cowboy]

She's a huge fan so I think the general descriptions of those two songs is most likely by design, although she probably doesn't know the Jimmy C. connection. In turn Patterson is fan of hers as well.

If I'm reading Patterson's comments correctly, he didn't write Shake & Pine with Jimmy in mind but rather he drew the connection to him after the song was written.

"Seven months later, Hood was performing "Shake and Pine" solo in Asheville, North Carolina. Right then, he had a lightbulb moment. "I had a friend pass away suddenly around the first week of November in 2020," he tells GRAMMY.com. "I realized: Wow, this is about my friend Jimmy. It's all here. All these different lines are codes for various things about him and our friendship and my sense of loss with him dying and our last conversation."

That's right. I assumed that's what Bubba meant.

[beantownbubba]

That's right. I assumed that's what Bubba meant.

Yes. It turned out to be about jimmy to Patterson's surprise. The context of the quote above is the phenomenon of subconscious songwriting.

If they aren't they're well on their way to being that. Their fans include fiction writers, filmmakers, historians and television personalities. In the past few years Heather Cox Richardson, George Pelacanos and others have attended live shows. Even pop artists like Taylor Swift have mentioned their respect for what they do.

Institution is one of those words that has a different meaning to everyone.

On the "American Institution" front I believe DBT's are more well known than we may think sometimes but I'm sure it goes without saying that more have likely heard of Isbell than them.

I think zip's right that we probably don't have a common understanding of what "American institution" means, so talking about DBT, or anyone, in that context is a bit iffy, but I think we can still talk about some of the factors that might lead towards or away from DBT's inclusion in that term.

With that in mind, I think TC is right that it at least feels like DBT is gaining increasing notice, fandom and appreciation from the literati, the cultural elite, the tastemakers, the, don't shoot me, influencers. I remember back in the early 70's, at least among those who turned teen in that decade, it was not uncommon in the middle of a music conversation to ask something along the lines of "do you know Buffalo Springfield?" They were kind of underground and obscure at the time at least for that age group that was just discovering FM radio and of course the members had almost all gone on to greater fame. A year or 2 later, you didn't have to ask that question, Buffalo Springfield was part of any knowledgeable fan's repertoire. I feel like DBT is kind of on that line right now. That's simply a feeling, absolutely no evidence to support it other than what seem to be the increasing mentions of DBT in musical/artistic/cultural circles. Patterson's op-ed in the NYT a while back is probably a contributing factor.

Interesting comment, KG. I agree, except that yesterday, partly motivated by this thread, I looked at Spotify's numbers of monthly listeners by artist. There are a lot of reasons not to make too much of these numbers including that DBT's may be inflated by having a new album, but FWIW here are some comparisons:

DBT 814,309
Isbell 692,068
Big Star 445,713
Lucinda 806,651
Son Volt 177,181
Wilco 2,265,556
Ramones 4,644,038
Meters 1,068,140
VU 3,291,704
PublicE 1,899,040

Then there's this:

TSwift 56,448,344
Beyonce 32,455,297

And I thought these internal comparisons were interesting:

CSN 502,014
Byrds 2,113463
NY 3,382,714
BuffS 3,491,222

[Flea]

How could Uncle Neil's numbers on Spotify be that high for the last month when he had his catalogue removed from the service several months ago? Does not compute.

[Mundane Mayhem]

That's right. I assumed that's what Bubba meant.

Yes. It turned out to be about jimmy to Patterson's surprise. The context of the quote above is the phenomenon of subconscious songwriting.

If they aren't they're well on their way to being that. Their fans include fiction writers, filmmakers, historians and television personalities. In the past few years Heather Cox Richardson, George Pelacanos and others have attended live shows. Even pop artists like Taylor Swift have mentioned their respect for what they do.

Institution is one of those words that has a different meaning to everyone.

On the "American Institution" front I believe DBT's are more well known than we may think sometimes but I'm sure it goes without saying that more have likely heard of Isbell than them.

I think zip's right that we probably don't have a common understanding of what "American institution" means, so talking about DBT, or anyone, in that context is a bit iffy, but I think we can still talk about some of the factors that might lead towards or away from DBT's inclusion in that term.

With that in mind, I think TC is right that it at least feels like DBT is gaining increasing notice, fandom and appreciation from the literati, the cultural elite, the tastemakers, the, don't shoot me, influencers. I remember back in the early 70's, at least among those who turned teen in that decade, it was not uncommon in the middle of a music conversation to ask something along the lines of "do you know Buffalo Springfield?" They were kind of underground and obscure at the time at least for that age group that was just discovering FM radio and of course the members had almost all gone on to greater fame. A year or 2 later, you didn't have to ask that question, Buffalo Springfield was part of any knowledgeable fan's repertoire. I feel like DBT is kind of on that line right now. That's simply a feeling, absolutely no evidence to support it other than what seem to be the increasing mentions of DBT in musical/artistic/cultural circles. Patterson's op-ed in the NYT a while back is probably a contributing factor.

Interesting comment, KG. I agree, except that yesterday, partly motivated by this thread, I looked at Spotify's numbers of monthly listeners by artist. There are a lot of reasons not to make too much of these numbers including that DBT's may be inflated by having a new album, but FWIW here are some comparisons:

DBT 814,309
Isbell 692,068
Big Star 445,713
Lucinda 806,651
Son Volt 177,181
Wilco 2,265,556
Ramones 4,644,038
Meters 1,068,140
VU 3,291,704
PublicE 1,899,040

Then there's this:

TSwift 56,448,344
Beyonce 32,455,297

And I thought these internal comparisons were interesting:

CSN 502,014
Byrds 2,113463
NY 3,382,714
BuffS 3,491,222

Just to add to this, JI&400U is 1,219,796.

[schlanky]

I left for the beach the day after the album came out and have been catching up on the comments on this thread tonight ---I've really appreciated the numerous fantastic posts over the last three pages. You folks have some really good insights. I think the number of really long posts here since the album dropped speaks to what a complicated masterpiece it is.


I'm digging Wilder Days right now---that's the song I keep going back to today. It's the perfect end to the album.

[305 Engine]

Elizabeth Nelson put her piece up on twitter. Someone replied quoting the DJ John Peel's description of The Fall.

"Always different, always the same."

Which is indeed a pretty good description of DBT too.

[beantownbubba]

Elizabeth Nelson put her piece up on twitter. Someone replied quoting the DJ John Peel's description of The Fall.

"Always different, always the same."

Which is indeed a pretty good description of DBT too.

tinnitus I believe that is your cue.

[305 Engine]

Elizabeth Nelson put her piece up on twitter. Someone replied quoting the DJ John Peel's description of The Fall.

"Always different, always the same."

Which is indeed a pretty good description of DBT too.

tinnitus I believe that is your cue.

Well now I am intrigued.

[beantownbubba]

Well now I am intrigued.

I hope tin comes thru because otherwise I'm gonna need help remembering that quote

[cortez the killer]

Elizabeth Nelson put her piece up on twitter. Someone replied quoting the DJ John Peel's description of The Fall.

"Always different, always the same."

Which is indeed a pretty good description of DBT too.

tinnitus I believe that is your cue.

Not linkous?

[beantownbubba]

Elizabeth Nelson put her piece up on twitter. Someone replied quoting the DJ John Peel's description of The Fall.

"Always different, always the same."

Which is indeed a pretty good description of DBT too.

tinnitus I believe that is your cue.

Not linkous?

I knew I should have asked you. I knew tin didn't post the original quote but I couldn't remember who had and thought that tinnitus was the one who adopted it as his sig line. You're surely right about linkous being the originator; I hope I'm right about tinnitus being the "flag carrier."

[cortez the killer]

tinnitus I believe that is your cue.

Not linkous?

I knew I should have asked you. I knew tin didn't post the original quote but I couldn't remember who had and thought that tinnitus was the one who adopted it as his sig line. You're surely right about linkous being the originator; I hope I'm right about tinnitus being the "flag carrier."

Bugbee is a massive and knowledgeable Fall fan (the biggest on here after linkous) and did use one of linkous' quotes as a sig lne. Something about two types of music, with The Fall being the obvious choice as great music.

[cortez the killer]

Recently, one of our fellow HeAthens noted that upon playing The Driver, which opens the album, his young son proclaimed, "Guitar!" I honestly can't think of a more appropriate response to the crunching riff behind this song. In the foreground are spoken lyrics recounting the narrator's driving, sometimes aimlessly and sometimes with purpose, on the way to or from memorable moments of his life. On these drives, he reached epiphanies and saw wonders and horrors alike. In many ways, the song is a Drive-By truckers travelogue, revisiting moments in song, and in that sense, the song is almost a companion to Stephen Deusner's recent biography of the band. Getting back to the music, the ethereal background vocals from Schaefer Llana help emphasize the gravity and revelatory nature of drives past. Behind it is a consistent and pummeling drum beat from Brad Morgan, and oh yeah, the kid had it right, "Guitar!". It's stunning, and it may be the most rocking opener since Where the Devil Don't Stay on The Dirty South.

"The Driver" is the standout for me. It possesses the kind of ominous swagger & snarl that some of those great Murdering Oscar songs (the title track, "Belvedere,""Heavy and Hanging," "Walking Around Sense") have. And that ear-splitting guitar solo that follows "as we drove on past the near-flaming demise" is downright wicked and reminds me a lot of the solo from "After the Scene Dies." I also love how the guitar fills up to that point sound a bit more like the slightly-restrained, dreamy meanderings of Neil Young & Crazy Horse, and then it just explodes on you six minutes into the track. As others have pointed out, Scaefer Lllana's sirenesque backing vocals are incredible and provide a similar weight as those gorgeous female backing vocals on "Angels and Fuselage." It has quickly become one of my favorite Patterson songs.

[schlanky]

"The Driver" is the standout for me. It possesses the kind of ominous swagger & snarl that some of those great Murdering Oscar songs (the title track, "Belvedere,""Heavy and Hanging," "Walking Around Sense") have.

After seeing references to Murdering Oscar in several posts on this thread, I too am hearing a lot of that album (in a good way). Not sure I would have noticed it on my own, but it's definitely there.

At times in Billy Ringo, the phrasing/chord changes remind me of When the Pin Hits the Shell.

[Mundane Mayhem]

"The Driver" is the standout for me. It possesses the kind of ominous swagger & snarl that some of those great Murdering Oscar songs (the title track, "Belvedere,""Heavy and Hanging," "Walking Around Sense") have.

After seeing references to Murdering Oscar in several posts on this thread, I too am hearing a lot of that album (in a good way). Not sure I would have noticed it on my own, but it's definitely there.

At times in Billy Ringo, the phrasing/chord changes remind me of When the Pin Hits the Shell.

Someone remind me: are Pin Hits/DIY “Billy Ringo” songs?

Let’s get a full list of them. “Better Than The Truth” obviously.

[Clams]

"The Driver" is the standout for me. It possesses the kind of ominous swagger & snarl that some of those great Murdering Oscar songs (the title track, "Belvedere,""Heavy and Hanging," "Walking Around Sense") have.

After seeing references to Murdering Oscar in several posts on this thread, I too am hearing a lot of that album (in a good way). Not sure I would have noticed it on my own, but it's definitely there.

At times in Billy Ringo, the phrasing/chord changes remind me of When the Pin Hits the Shell.

Someone remind me: are Pin Hits/DIY “Billy Ringo” songs?

Let’s get a full list of them. “Better Than The Truth” obviously.

Billy was the fun guy in Better Than the Truth. Patterson really brings the hammer down this time though.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Someone remind me: are Pin Hits/DIY “Billy Ringo” songs?

Let’s get a full list of them. “Better Than The Truth” obviously.

I don’t think so. Pin Hits the Shell and DIY are specifically about AHC bassist John Cahoon, while Billy Ringo is a composite character (who might include Cahoon but idk)

[phungi]

Billy was the fun guy in Better Than the Truth. Patterson really brings the hammer down this time though.

I see what you did there...

[Mundane Mayhem]

Someone remind me: are Pin Hits/DIY “Billy Ringo” songs?

Let’s get a full list of them. “Better Than The Truth” obviously.

I don’t think so. Pin Hits the Shell and DIY are specifically about AHC bassist John Cahoon, while Billy Ringo is a composite character (who might include Cahoon but idk)

At least once (possibly when they debuted BRITD in Ft. Collins), PH has mentioned that he was inspired to write it when he heard John Cahoon’s isolated backing vocals during the process of mixing Town Burned Down. So I suspect Billy Ringo is inspired in large part by Cahoon.

[cortez the killer]

Billy was the fun guy in Better Than the Truth. Patterson really brings the hammer down this time though.

I see what you did there...

You'd be better off with this mushroom eater...

[beantownbubba]

I've been around for a while. I know how things work, or don't. I had zero expectations of getting my cd of the album on release day. I went into the process knowing I needed to be patient and to have no expectations, essentially viewing it as a "support the band" exercise, not a commercial transaction. But really, this is ridiculous. Almost 2 wks since release and nada.

[cortez the killer]

I've been around for a while. I know how things work, or don't. I had zero expectations of getting my cd of the album on release day. I went into the process knowing I needed to be patient and to have no expectations, essentially viewing it as a "support the band" exercise, not a commercial transaction. But really, this is ridiculous. Almost 2 wks since release and nada.

I don't follow the day-to-day of these issues, but is it directly from the band's website?

[Mundane Mayhem]

I've been around for a while. I know how things work, or don't. I had zero expectations of getting my cd of the album on release day. I went into the process knowing I needed to be patient and to have no expectations, essentially viewing it as a "support the band" exercise, not a commercial transaction. But really, this is ridiculous. Almost 2 wks since release and nada.

I am done with MusicToday forever. I ordered the special vinyl variant from Seasick Records in Birmingham and it arrived on the 6th.

[schlanky]

I ordered from Bandcamp and had mine on release day. I was very surprised.

Then I was sad to learn that Seasick Records that's just 5 minutes from work had it on colored vinyl, and I could have had colored vinyl if I would have just waited and bought at Seasick on release day. I'm pretty sure it plays the same as the black one though.

[lajakesdad]

And that ear-splitting guitar solo that follows "as we drove on past the near-flaming demise" is downright wicked and reminds me a lot of the solo from "After the Scene Dies." I also love how the guitar fills up to that point sound a bit more like the slightly-restrained, dreamy meanderings of Neil Young & Crazy Horse, and then it just explodes on you six minutes into the track.

I don't know if it is intentional or not but on the second "as we drove on past the near-flaming demise" the guitar explodes and sounds like a semi truck's horn. When I first heard it with headphones and just stoned enough it startled me.

This song took a few spins to click for me. Not always a fan of talk songs. But it did click and it is now one of my favorites. A perfect opener. So much going on in the back you find more with each listen.

[Clams]

So much going on in the back you find more with each listen.

Yep lots of cool noises and effects that come alive when you listen loud. I'm guessing that's Barbe.

[Flea]

I've been around for a while. I know how things work, or don't. I had zero expectations of getting my cd of the album on release day. I went into the process knowing I needed to be patient and to have no expectations, essentially viewing it as a "support the band" exercise, not a commercial transaction. But really, this is ridiculous. Almost 2 wks since release and nada.

Yeah, me too. But FWIW, I ordered from them so I could get the t-shirt, so it's all good.

[Tequila Cowboy]

The Driver is an incredible song. That heavy riff drew me in from minute one. I’ll tell you, though, the more time goes on I think We Will Never Wake You Up in the Morning, is the best song on the record. It might be one of Patterson’s best songs ever in the same territory as The Living Bubba, Ever South and a few others.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I had hopes of finding it at one of the local big box stores since it wasn't unusual at all to find DBT's at places like Best Buy in the past. Well, times have changed. I was even ready to drive an hour and a half to Wilmington to buy it but that was a no go as well, at least on CD. So, I finally cashed in some Amazon gift certificates and had it in 3 or 4 days. I finally gave it a spin tonight. I'm not sure that it's a grower but I do believe it's going to take some time to sink in.

[gepman]

I've been around for a while. I know how things work, or don't. I had zero expectations of getting my cd of the album on release day. I went into the process knowing I needed to be patient and to have no expectations, essentially viewing it as a "support the band" exercise, not a commercial transaction. But really, this is ridiculous. Almost 2 wks since release and nada.

Me too. Pre-ordered just the CD/LP, didn't get them until one week after release day.
Saying Music Today is FUBAR at this point would be stating the obvious...