brett27295 wrote:

scotto wrote: By the way, we need more Heathens over on the Hoffman forums.

I've been on the Hoffman forums for 16 years.

Guess I couldn't hear you over all the squealing Beatles fans.

Proving once again that however many words we spill, nobody knows or understands DBT better than Mr. Hood. From an interview by Steve Houk on livingonmusic.com:

"It’s almost like the Blues tradition, no one really thinks of our band as a Blues band in the traditional musical sense of what 12 bar blues sounds like or whatever. But in the sense of how Blues music came to be and what it stands for, is kind of what we do. I mean you take your troubles, you play them in a celebratory manner on a Saturday night or whatever night it happens to be, and people come together, and it kind of chases the darkness away, at least for the night. This record’s very much kind of like our Blues record, and our shows have always been fun and celebratory, so I definitely want to retain that as we tour behind this record and kind of tie it all in together."

Couldn't help but think of the 4th verse of Patterson's "Thoughts & Prayers" while reading this article......pure genius lyrics & foreshadowing.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ot ... flat-earth

Thoughts & Prayers Lyrics:

When the carnage was over you could hear the cellphones ringing
You could smell gun powder in the air
On the bloody ground LED’s were blinking
Deliver us from evil, thoughts and prayers

They’re lined up on the playground, Their hands all in the air
See it on our newsfeed and we cry out in despair
They’re counting up the casualties and everyone’s choosing sides
There’s always someone to blame Never anywhere to hide

Thoughts and Prayers Thoughts and Prayers

This white noise in my head, I think I need a filter
A pressure valve to keep from blowing up
When the shit comes down, I pray I can rise above it
Hold me close when I’ve had enough

Thoughts and Prayers Thoughts and Prayers
Glory Hallelujah You are in our thoughts and prayers

The Flat Earthist realized as he flew through the skies
The curve of the horizon as he fell
He saw the world was round, just before he hit the ground
And gravity called out to close the deal[/b][/b]

When my children’s eyes look at me and they ask me to explain
It hurts me that I have to look away
The Powers That Be are in for shame and comeuppance
When Generation Lockdown has their day
They’ll throw the bums all out and drain that swamp for real
Purp walk them down the Capitol steps and show them how it feels
Tramp the dirt down, Jesus. You can pray the rod they’ll spare
Stick it up your ass with your useless thoughts and prayers

Glory Hallelujah You are in our thoughts and prayers
Glory Hallelujah You are in our thoughts and prayers…

I love Patterson and I appreciate his optimistic view of our grandparents but I can't help but think this is exactly what those folks would want. This belief that the so called greatest generation fought WW2 for the benefit of everyone is naive at best. Our grandparents generation was just as racist as any that came after it, I mean they gave birth to the worst, most damaging generation of humans ever to exist. The new record is stunning and necessary but the idea that boomers ever cared about anyone but themselves is delusional. Post WW2 america is the single most damaging era to ever be inflicted upon humanity.

I thought I was onto something but you never know…

Rocky wrote: I simply can not get Awaiting Resurrection out of my head. The first time I heard it I thought (perhaps incorrectly) Oh Shit - this is the Truckers’ version of an old delta blues song.

beantownbubba wrote:Proving once again that however many words we spill, nobody knows or understands DBT better than Mr. Hood. From an interview by Steve Houk on livingonmusic.com:
"This record’s very much kind of like our Blues record"

njMark wrote:I love Patterson and I appreciate his optimistic view of our grandparents but I can't help but think this is exactly what those folks would want. This belief that the so called greatest generation fought WW2 for the benefit of everyone is naive at best. Our grandparents generation was just as racist as any that came after it, I mean they gave birth to the worst, most damaging generation of humans ever to exist. The new record is stunning and necessary but the idea that boomers ever cared about anyone but themselves is delusional. Post WW2 america is the single most damaging era to ever be inflicted upon humanity.

Yeah, those world wars weren't so bad. Slavery, destruction of the Native Americans. Child's play.

Iowan wrote:

njMark wrote:I love Patterson and I appreciate his optimistic view of our grandparents but I can't help but think this is exactly what those folks would want. This belief that the so called greatest generation fought WW2 for the benefit of everyone is naive at best. Our grandparents generation was just as racist as any that came after it, I mean they gave birth to the worst, most damaging generation of humans ever to exist. The new record is stunning and necessary but the idea that boomers ever cared about anyone but themselves is delusional. Post WW2 america is the single most damaging era to ever be inflicted upon humanity.

Yeah, those world wars weren't so bad. Slavery, destruction of the Native Americans. Child's play.

And Hiroshima was just a really big mushroom. And what about the environment? Environmental destruction on an industrial scale including the poisoning of water and land to the point of uninhabitability plus the poisoning of crops, livestock, air and people. Who needs an environment anyway?

Rocky wrote:I thought I was onto something but you never know…

Rocky wrote: I simply can not get Awaiting Resurrection out of my head. The first time I heard it I thought (perhaps incorrectly) Oh Shit - this is the Truckers’ version of an old delta blues song.

beantownbubba wrote:Proving once again that however many words we spill, nobody knows or understands DBT better than Mr. Hood. From an interview by Steve Houk on livingonmusic.com:
"This record’s very much kind of like our Blues record"

Should have given you props, Rocky.

beantownbubba wrote:

Rocky wrote:I thought I was onto something but you never know…

Rocky wrote: I simply can not get Awaiting Resurrection out of my head. The first time I heard it I thought (perhaps incorrectly) Oh Shit - this is the Truckers’ version of an old delta blues song.

beantownbubba wrote:Proving once again that however many words we spill, nobody knows or understands DBT better than Mr. Hood. From an interview by Steve Houk on livingonmusic.com:
"This record’s very much kind of like our Blues record"

Should have given you props, Rocky.

You just did!

Good find in Living On Music.

njMark wrote:I love Patterson and I appreciate his optimistic view of our grandparents but I can't help but think this is exactly what those folks would want. This belief that the so called greatest generation fought WW2 for the benefit of everyone is naive at best. Our grandparents generation was just as racist as any that came after it, I mean they gave birth to the worst, most damaging generation of humans ever to exist. The new record is stunning and necessary but the idea that boomers ever cared about anyone but themselves is delusional. Post WW2 america is the single most damaging era to ever be inflicted upon humanity.

I'm not American so I come at this from a slightly different angle. But, from what I can see on both sides of the atlantic, the lives of ordinary people improved hugely after WWII. In the UK, I can say with certainty that this was linked to the fact that after years of fighting, people were determined that their future would be better. And, thats what happened. Im sure its similar in the states. All that blood has to be for a reason. People are never going to be happy to just go back to how things were.

It wasnt flawless, but broadly speaking, if you were a working man in the post WWII years, your life was better than it had been in the pre WWII years. We romanticise the 60s, but wonderful things really did happen in that decade. For me, its all linked to the war and the desire to see all that death mean something and lead to a better world.

The backward steps have all come since that wartime generation began dying off. With them, that memory of the blood and chaos goes, and people start slipping back into the same dumb fucking headspaces that lead us there.

So, were they the "greatest generation"? I dunno. But they were a remarkable generation and Patterson is right to praise them.

I don't mind talking about generations as a convenience or shorthand, but if we're seriously going to discuss this let me say that it is my opinion the "generational theory of history" is meaningless. There are a million reasons for that conclusion including the impossibility of generalizing about the motivations and moral character of tens or hundreds of millions of people, all of whom were acting and reacting to the unique circumstances of their times. Would the "greatest generation" react to the realities faced by millenials in a morally superior fashion? I doubt it. Would millenials have fought the evil threats of the 1940's with ardor and courage equal to that of the greatest generation? I'd bet yes.

To my way of thinking the greatest generation get their name because it was the last time people perceived as basically good and pure of motive fought people perceived as fundamentally evil and kicked their asses. That happened. And the sacrifices made by those folks especially those who gave everything should not be forgotten or minimized. But I believe that's the limited concept of what the greatest generation is about, not some more general superiority or genius. Even then things were less clear than we like to think. The Nazis were just as bad and constituted just as much of a threat in 1940 as they did in 1942 yet on the whole America was firmly against getting into the war in 1940 while everyone was totally gung ho in 1942. What changed? It wasn't some great moral epiphany, it was Pearl Harbor. It was the right decision but it was also a relatively easy one, and one I would argue that would have been made by every generation.

The prosperity that followed WWII initially and especially in the US after WWII was the result of specific economic and geopolitical conditions, not moral superiority or better decision making (although some good decisions helped). There were plenty of bad decisions made too, some of which were important enough that we're still living with them. The "arc of history" bent towards justice during the post war era, but let's not pretend that this country wasn't dragged kicking and screaming into the civil rights era or that that fight was totally won. Any issue that you want to look at, there were people on the right side of history, people on the wrong side of history, good decisions made, bad decisions made, the right results reached for the wrong reasons and vice versa, etc etc. None of it has to do w/ the inherent quality or superiority of a supposed generation. Add to that the essentially random "process" of deciding what's a generation and who's in it, and the construct falls apart totally.

As always, it is the best of times and it is the worst of times. Always was and always will be unless we really fuck up and are left w/ only the worst of times, which could happen, but hasn't yet. And those best and worst times will be the result of the decisions and indecisions, the actions and inactions, and the interactions among huge numbers of people spanning an age group of at least 60 years if not more, not a single arbitrarily designated generation.

beantownbubba wrote:I don't mind talking about generations as a convenience or shorthand, but if we're seriously going to discuss this let me say that it is my opinion the "generational theory of history" is meaningless. There are a million reasons for that conclusion including the impossibility of generalizing about the motivations and moral character of tens or hundreds of millions of people, all of whom were acting and reacting to the unique circumstances of their times. Would the "greatest generation" react to the realities faced by millenials in a morally superior fashion? I doubt it. Would millenials have fought the evil threats of the 1940's with ardor and courage equal to that of the greatest generation? I'd bet yes.

To my way of thinking the greatest generation get their name because it was the last time people perceived as basically good and pure of motive fought people perceived as fundamentally evil and kicked their asses. That happened. And the sacrifices made by those folks especially those who gave everything should not be forgotten or minimized. But I believe that's the limited concept of what the greatest generation is about, not some more general superiority or genius. Even then things were less clear than we like to think. The Nazis were just as bad and constituted just as much of a threat in 1940 as they did in 1942 yet on the whole America was firmly against getting into the war in 1940 while everyone was totally gung ho in 1942. What changed? It wasn't some great moral epiphany, it was Pearl Harbor. It was the right decision but it was also a relatively easy one, and one I would argue that would have been made by every generation.

The prosperity that followed WWII initially and especially in the US after WWII was the result of specific economic and geopolitical conditions, not moral superiority or better decision making (although some good decisions helped). There were plenty of bad decisions made too, some of which were important enough that we're still living with them. The "arc of history" bent towards justice during the post war era, but let's not pretend that this country wasn't dragged kicking and screaming into the civil rights era or that that fight was totally won. Any issue that you want to look at, there were people on the right side of history, people on the wrong side of history, good decisions made, bad decisions made, the right results reached for the wrong reasons and vice versa, etc etc. None of it has to do w/ the inherent quality or superiority of a supposed generation. Add to that the essentially random "process" of deciding what's a generation and who's in it, and the construct falls apart totally.

As always, it is the best of times and it is the worst of times. Always was and always will be unless we really fuck up and are left w/ only the worst of times, which could happen, but hasn't yet. And those best and worst times will be the result of the decisions and indecisions, the actions and inactions, and the interactions among huge numbers of people spanning an age group of at least 60 years if not more, not a single arbitrarily designated generation.

I'd agree with all of that. Would "millennials" have fought in the 40s given the same circumstances? Of course they would.

It's just that, when talking about history, inevitably you have to talk in generalisations and have to look at overall achievements without looking too closely at the nuances. Im a great believer in having a full appreciation of history and seeing the world in grey areas not black and white. But, you need to read and write books to get a firm grasp of those things. In everyday conversation (and on internet forums) you mostly need to talk in generalisations.

The WWII generation, with a number of caveats, achieved a lot and personally Im happy for them to be seen as a positive symbol of humanity at their best - which is how Patterson is using them. But, as with all such things, its worth us all remembering that theres a deeper story.

Its a contradiction. Or a duality. I think someone more articulate than me has written songs about such things.

305 Engine wrote:I'd agree with all of that. Would "millennials" have fought in the 40s given the same circumstances? Of course they would.

It's just that, when talking about history, inevitably you have to talk in generalisations and have to look at overall achievements without looking too closely at the nuances. Im a great believer in having a full appreciation of history and seeing the world in grey areas not black and white. But, you need to read and write books to get a firm grasp of those things. In everyday conversation (and on internet forums) you mostly need to talk in generalisations.

The WWII generation, with a number of caveats, achieved a lot and personally Im happy for them to be seen as a positive symbol of humanity at their best - which is how Patterson is using them. But, as with all such things, its worth us all remembering that theres a deeper story.

Its a contradiction. Or a duality. I think someone more articulate than me has written songs about such things.

I absolutely agree we have to generalize and look at the big picture in order to make any sense of the past or present. What's new and different, I think, is the identification of and focus on specific generations. When I think back to the way I learned about history, periods were either named for a towering figure (usually a king or queen, e.g. Elizabethan), a significant event (in the US, e.g. the Civil War era), sometimes a cultural trend when it was particularly powerful (e.g. the Dark Ages, the Renaissance) or sometimes by calendar (e.g. the Roaring 20's). I'm sure we can analyze any of these periods and figure out why that label in incorrect or misleading or what have you in some important ways. But we don't because the label serves a useful purpose in describing the era in broad strokes. What all those eras have in common is that NONE attempt to assign praise or blame based on any particular age cohort. Which makes sense because, I suggest, very rarely is a particular age based demographic truly responsible for anything. Even "Founding Fathers" in the US is not an age based label.

As I said, I have no problem with the identification of the "greatest generation" in particular. They are more or less truly and substantively identifiable (which is also pretty much true for boomers but not nearly as true for many others like Gen X, millenials, etc) and they did important things. Even more importantly, whether it's true or not, they are given credit for a certain kind of nostalgic goodness and simplicity which has always resonated but which reallyI resonates today. I doubly don't have any problem w/ Cooley & Hood singing/writing about them because in the context of lyrics and non-academic culture this kind of generalizing or labeling makes even more than the usual amount of sense, and again, we know exactly who they're singing about and why that generation is admirable (or put another way we know what the symbolism stands for and is meant to convey).

If one wanted to seriously analyze the impact of the greatest generation there's a lot of other stuff, some of it good or even great but a lot of it pretty fucked up, that one would have to include in order to make a reasoned judgment. And if we did that we'd probably get into a lot of "fights" about whether that generation was really responsible for this or that event/development which makes sense because the generational angle doesn't really hold up as a useful mechanism for figuring out large scale historical trends. So sure, use the "greatest generation" label to signify some important generally accepted ideas/accomplishments but don't stretch the generational concept beyond its breaking point. My point is not that we can't generalize but to recognize that generational labels are a relatively new way of generalizing and they are a particularly inaccurate and misleading way of doing so. [If it needs to be said those comments are not directed ay you personally, 305 Engine, but to the wider public phenomenon we're discussing]

BTW, I have often said that the coming intergenerational warfare, which I regard as inevitable, is going to be ugly and brutal as hell. It may even turn out that boomers v. [whatever label we settle on, for the multiple generations that will be on the other side of that war] will be a useful way of understanding that historical period. But if it happens that will be an anomaly based on the actual key historical developments being based on age groupings which itself will be largely a result of the ridiculously disproportionate impact the baby boom generation has had on society throughout its existence (at least in the US; I can't speak to other countries/regions/cultures).

beantownbubba wrote:BTW, I have often said that the coming intergenerational warfare, which I regard as inevitable, is going to be ugly and brutal as hell. It may even turn out that boomers v. [whatever label we settle on, for the multiple generations that will be on the other side of that war] will be a useful way of understanding that historical period. But if it happens that will be an anomaly based on the actual key historical developments being based on age groupings which itself will be largely a result of the ridiculously disproportionate impact the baby boom generation has had on society throughout its existence (at least in the US; I can't speak to other countries/regions/cultures).

Yeah I think we're on the same page here.

Personally, the whole "boomers vs millenials vs gen xers vs whatevers" stuff, to me seems very much a media creation. Or at least media encouraged. I've yet to find any of those labels particularly useful. It's a shame so much emphasis is being placed on them.

Does anyone else think that "21st Century USA" would sound good with some Shonna backup vocals (esp. on the bridge)?

Zip City wrote:Does anyone else think that "21st Century USA" would sound good with some Shonna backup vocals (esp. on the bridge)?

A la "The Opening Act"

I don't think I've seen anything about the liner notes, which i was looking at recently:

Team acknowledgement for "the Heathens who travel far and wide, spreading the word and supporting our band." And another for the 3 dimes down family.

Individual acknowledgements for jonicont, mark lynn, lurleen mcqueen & tequila cowboy, uncle rickey & cooleygirl, headhunter & mrs. headhunter, and Big Tom. All names in the notes are actually their non virtual ones except for Big Tom but I figured consistency would be less confusing.

As for recording the album: "Mick stopped by one day. No shit."

"We played [the songs on the album] loud. You should too."

Much fodder for the "shut up and sing" crowd. Probably Patterson's most fiery and direct commentary yet which is only fitting given the lyrical content within.

Iowan wrote:

Zip City wrote:Does anyone else think that "21st Century USA" would sound good with some Shonna backup vocals (esp. on the bridge)?

A la "The Opening Act"

Yes, it has that feel, and it struck while listening today that her voice would be welcome on that track

beantownbubba wrote:I don't think I've seen anything about the liner notes, which i was looking at recently:

Team acknowledgement for "the Heathens who travel far and wide, spreading the word and supporting our band." And another for the 3 dimes down family.

Individual acknowledgements for jonicont, mark lynn, lurleen mcqueen & tequila cowboy, uncle rickey & cooleygirl, headhunter & mrs. headhunter, and Big Tom. All names in the notes are actually their non virtual ones except for Big Tom but I figured consistency would be less confusing.

As for recording the album: "Mick stopped by one day. No shit."

"We played [the songs on the album] loud. You should too."

Much fodder for the "shut up and sing" crowd. Probably Patterson's most fiery and direct commentary yet which is only fitting given the lyrical content within.

Words to live by.

Got my first vinyl listen of The Unraveling tonight. I've heard it a bunch on headphones and a bunch on CD in the car, but this was the first time for hearing needle touching vinyl through the speakers. They really did an outstanding production job on this record.

Herion Again is Southern Power Pop

It dawned on me today that The Unraveling is actually a concept record.

Clams wrote:It dawned on me today that The Unraveling is actually a concept record.

You can't just drop that nugget and walk away...

Clams wrote:It dawned on me today that The Unraveling is actually a concept record.

About a society coming apart, perhaps? And it's happening? Hmmm?

Clams wrote:It dawned on me today that The Unraveling is actually a concept record.

Patterson has a nice forward in the vinyl booklet and pretty much acknowledges this.

Lots of DBT content, including a review of The Unraveling, in Lawyers Guns & Money's current music notes column.

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/20 ... c-notes-60

Clams wrote:Lots of DBT content, including a review of The Unraveling, in Lawyers Guns & Money's current music notes column.

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/20 ... c-notes-60

Good one. I enjoy LG&M, but haven't looked in awhile due to a general online info hiatus. But that's a nice read. And this:
I’ll say this for the rise of fascism in America–it’s been good for Patterson Hood’s writing.

For me, the majority of good records are actually concept albums. Most of the time they aren't meant to be, but they are.

Because mostly, a rock album is a body of work written by an individual, or group of individuals, at more or less the same time. So, whatever is happening in the life of that songwriter, or that group of guys (who most likely live in each other's pockets) inevitably filters into the songs.

And so, inevitably, you get a concept album. Thematically speaking. Name me a great rock album and you can probably also tell me the themes, or the feel running through that album.

I think DBT do exactly this, but a little bit more consciously than most. Pretty sure they said that this album only really came together when they found a group of songs that made sense as a piece (I'm paraphrasing).

Thematically, this is most definitely a concept album.

305 Engine wrote:For me, the majority of good records are actually concept albums. Most of the time they aren't meant to be, but they are.

Because mostly, a rock album is a body of work written by an individual, or group of individuals, at more or less the same time. So, whatever is happening in the life of that songwriter, or that group of guys (who most likely live in each other's pockets) inevitably filters into the songs.

And so, inevitably, you get a concept album. Thematically speaking. Name me a great rock album and you can probably also tell me the themes, or the feel running through that album.

I think DBT do exactly this, but a little bit more consciously than most. Pretty sure they said that this album only really came together when they found a group of songs that made sense as a piece (I'm paraphrasing).

Thematically, this is most definitely a concept album.

Like.

I don't know what the critical consensus is these days, but for a long time the thinking on Who's Next was that its defiant, determined non-concept (in reaction to Tommy) was its concept