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DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:04 pm
by Whispering Pines
I’m on the homestretch of writing a book called “Americanaland” (for University of Illinois Press) about that most amorphous of musical genres, Americana. The later chapters of the book will include coverage of Uncle Tupelo/Wilco, Whiskeytown/Ryan Adams, and Drive By Truckers/Jason Isbell. I’d appreciate your thoughts about how the Truckers fit (or don’t) into the world of Americana. My own notion is that in a diverse musical landscape in which rock is something of a minority taste, Americana is the last refuge for both a singular singer-songwriter (Jason) and a great rock band (DBT). Thanks for the feedback.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:48 am
by RolanK
Genre discussions are always difficult. As soon as I start try to define them or pigeonhole a band inside one, they start falling apart. Imho Jason would probably fit such a label, DBT not so much. There are other labels that come to mind when trying to describe DBT to other people.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:42 pm
by oilpiers
Americana is broad enough to include DBT in my opinion. Americana is as much rock as folk & country. The Jayhawks have been called a pioneer in the genre by some, and they are a pop band compared to DBT. The Raspberrys considered themselves a rock band. So did the Clash. Not much similar between the two.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:37 am
by beantownbubba
IIRC, there was an in depth discussion of Americana - what it means, who's in/who's out, etc a number of years ago on 3dd. I don't think it was so long ago that it would have been on 9bullets, but it's possilbe. If it's accessible here I think it might be worth a few minutes of your time.

The definition of Americana seems to be in the ears of the beholder or subject to the point being made at the immediate moment. In the broader definitions there's plenty of room to include DBT if one is inclined to do so, or one could include them out w/ a narrower definition. Or put another way, is "Americana" even a meaningful term/description? I assume you think it is since you're writing an entire book on the subject and I'm curious to read your take.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:11 am
by Clams
Whispering Pines wrote:I’d appreciate your thoughts about how the Truckers fit (or don’t) into the world of Americana.
To me, Americana is a sort of a broad, catch-all genre made up of musical styles that have roots formed in traditional American music - blues, country, jazz, folk, bluegrass, etc. Clearly DBT fits into a certain portion of that genre - just as they fit into several other more specific genres including punk, country, R&B, and regular old rock and roll.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:05 pm
by RolanK
Clams wrote:
Whispering Pines wrote:I’d appreciate your thoughts about how the Truckers fit (or don’t) into the world of Americana.
To me, Americana is a sort of a broad, catch-all genre made up of musical styles that have roots formed in traditional American music - blues, country, jazz, folk, bluegrass, etc. Clearly DBT fits into a certain portion of that genre - just as they fit into several other more specific genres including punk, country, R&B, and regular old rock and roll.
If I were to describe DBT to someone I would probably use those words in bold above before Americana. Not saying that Americana doesn't apply to them at all, but not my first choice, or whatever... I also think that btb's question is relevant. Is it a sound, a certain style of playing/producing, lyrical content or just a bunch loosely associated bands.

Is Rolling Stones Americana?

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:34 am
by Whispering Pines
For what it's worth, I'm doing my best to not get stuck in the weeds of defining "Americana" in my book, which would be comparable to trying to give a precise definition to "world music." In fact, "Americana" was created as a promotional handle to market records that fell between radio formats. So what I'm focusing on is the interplay between country and rock & roll and other roots music from the "big bang" of Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family in the late-20s through Hank Williams, Sun Records, the folk revival, Dylan, country-rock, cowpunk, alt. country and "Americana, whatever that means," which was the motto of 'No Depression' magazine. I did a similar book about the intertwining of blues and rock called "Crossroads: How the Blues Shaped Rock 'n' Roll (and Rock Saved the Blues)." As I'm approaching the last chapters of the book, I've come to see this "alternative history" as showcasing the artists whose records influenced the principal players of the genre. I certainly understand how the "Americana" tag can be less than illuminating. When I first saw the Truckers around 2004, I thought, "these guys would have been huge in the mid-'70s," when guitar bands ruled the rock roost. When I saw the Truckers at the Americana Awards at the Ryman a few years back, they were up for "Band of the Year" and, truth be told, I wasn't mad when the meaningless prize went to Marty Stuart and the Superlatives. Another angle on Americana is that for an aging music fan in an era dominated by rap and fairly facile pop, Americana gathers together the sort of bands and singer-songwriters who, back in the day, were at the heart of a more cohesive period of popular music. I was around fifty when I first saw Drive-By Truckers and they became something of an obsession precisely because they capture essential notions of what I've always loved about rock 'n' roll (and by extension, Americana). Forty or so shows later, that's why this senior citizen will see y'all at a couple of Brooklyn Bowl rock shows.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:26 pm
by oilpiers
Whispering Pines wrote:For what it's worth, I'm doing my best to not get stuck in the weeds of defining "Americana" in my book, which would be comparable to trying to give a precise definition to "world music." In fact, "Americana" was created as a promotional handle to market records that fell between radio formats. So what I'm focusing on is the interplay between country and rock & roll and other roots music from the "big bang" of Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family in the late-20s through Hank Williams, Sun Records, the folk revival, Dylan, country-rock, cowpunk, alt. country and "Americana, whatever that means," which was the motto of 'No Depression' magazine. I did a similar book about the intertwining of blues and rock called "Crossroads: How the Blues Shaped Rock 'n' Roll (and Rock Saved the Blues)." As I'm approaching the last chapters of the book, I've come to see this "alternative history" as showcasing the artists whose records influenced the principal players of the genre. I certainly understand how the "Americana" tag can be less than illuminating. When I first saw the Truckers around 2004, I thought, "these guys would have been huge in the mid-'70s," when guitar bands ruled the rock roost. When I saw the Truckers at the Americana Awards at the Ryman a few years back, they were up for "Band of the Year" and, truth be told, I wasn't mad when the meaningless prize went to Marty Stuart and the Superlatives. Another angle on Americana is that for an aging music fan in an era dominated by rap and fairly facile pop, Americana gathers together the sort of bands and singer-songwriters who, back in the day, were at the heart of a more cohesive period of popular music. I was around fifty when I first saw Drive-By Truckers and they became something of an obsession precisely because they capture essential notions of what I've always loved about rock 'n' roll (and by extension, Americana). Forty or so shows later, that's why this senior citizen will see y'all at a couple of Brooklyn Bowl rock shows.
I really enjoyed this post. When your book comes out, I know you can't market it here, but I'm interested.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:37 pm
by Zip City
oilpiers wrote: I really enjoyed this post. When your book comes out, I know you can't market it here, but I'm interested.
That WarHenRecords guy markets stuff here all the time....

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:19 pm
by Tequila Cowboy
Whispering Pines, looking forward to it. Of course you can market it here.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:28 pm
by oilpiers
Tequila Cowboy wrote:Whispering Pines, looking forward to it. Of course you can market it here.
I guess I misunderstood the rules. Glad to hear!

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:37 pm
by beantownbubba
Whispering Pines wrote:Another angle on Americana is that for an aging music fan in an era dominated by rap and fairly facile pop, Americana gathers together the sort of bands and singer-songwriters who, back in the day, were at the heart of a more cohesive period of popular music.
Hey, you're pretty good at this writing about music thing. That's great stuff right there. Not surprising since I just learned that I read and enjoyed your stuff for years (Don't know if you've stopped writing or I've stopped reading, but it's been a while since I've seen your byline). Glad you're here, hope I haven't said anything especially stupid or insulting along the way. I don't think I've read your Crossroads book but it sure sounds like I oughta, so I will.
Whispering Pines wrote:I was around fifty when I first saw Drive-By Truckers and they became something of an obsession precisely because they capture essential notions of what I've always loved about rock 'n' roll (and by extension, Americana).
That will do as the bio for probably more than half of us on this site, w/ some flexibility on the age thing.

And that "and by extension, Americana" parenthetical is pretty deft ;) :lol:

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:39 pm
by beantownbubba
PS Does your book answer the eternal, often asked but never satisfactorily answered question of whether music by The Band can be considered Americana?

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:56 pm
by LBRod
beantownbubba wrote:PS Does your book answer the eternal, often asked but never satisfactorily answered question of whether music by The Band can be considered Americana?
Dammit, Bubba
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Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:40 pm
by Whispering Pines
The Band? You mean the Beatles of Americana? And by the way, the Fabs themselves are in the book, being lovers of Buddy Holly, Buck Owens, and getting (literally) turned on by Bob Dylan.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:00 pm
by Tequila Cowboy
RolanK wrote:Is Rolling Stones Americana?
I would say a certain subsection of Rolling Stones songs are definitely Americana, Smitty has called them a great country band in fact, maybe even providing a blueprint for what would follow (along with Gram Parsons). In terms of Americana I've often described Detroit band Deadstring Brothers as sounding as if Dead Flowers was a genre.

Whispering Pines, you mentioned the Beatles do the Stones appear in your book?

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 pm
by oilpiers
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
RolanK wrote:Is Rolling Stones Americana?
I would say a certain subsection of Rolling Stones songs are definitely Americana, Smitty has called them a great country band in fact, maybe even providing a blueprint for what would follow (along with Gram Parsons). In terms of Americana I've often described Detroit band Deadstring Brothers as sounding as if Dead Flowers was a genre.

Whispering Pines, you mentioned the Beatles do the Stones appear in your book?
In my opinion this is unequivocal. Wild Horses is the VERY FIRST Alt. Country hit. If that makes the Stones part time Americana, then so be it. I think it is much more a style of music than a qualifying description a band. Listening to Nebraska by Springsteen right now. Clearly Americana, where BTR, though lyrically maybe, musically, nope. MMJ's first album is certainly Americana, but they are hardly an Americana band.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:03 pm
by Smitty
Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:02 pm
by whatwouldcooleydo?
Smitty wrote:Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.
Americana as fuck. For a ton of reasons, but Workingman's Dead and American Beauty alone cement their significance and influence in the genre

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Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 pm
by Smitty
whatwouldcooleydo? wrote:
Smitty wrote:Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.
Americana as fuck. For a ton of reasons, but Workingman's Dead and American Beauty alone cement their significance and influence in the genre

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Absolutely. I wasn't sure that WD/AB predated Sticky Fingers, but I see they do.
The Stones flirting with country predates SF (even meeting GP, which most consider the catalyst) as well.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:01 am
by Clams
To me americana is an enormous genre that encompasses so many different sounds, styles etc. I think there's no question that every one of the bands and musical styles mentioned previously in this thread fits into a certain portion of the genre. Some fit into the genre only for certain records or periods of their careers (but they can still be tagged as americana because of it). Other artists and bands (The Band, Neil Young come to mind) occupy a larger portion of the genre than most other bands.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:05 am
by John A Arkansawyer
americana = (roots music - black people) ^ hippies

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:22 pm
by oilpiers
Smitty wrote:Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.
Welp, it's all opinion. Burrito's are the only band listed that I would consider alt. country. Americana? Sure. Throw in CCR to some degree. Burritos never had a hit. Stones did country prior to Wild Horses, but again, none were really hits.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:29 pm
by cortez the killer
Smitty wrote:Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.
I agree.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:50 pm
by Zip City
beantownbubba wrote:PS Does your book answer the eternal, often asked but never satisfactorily answered question of whether music by The Band can be considered Americana?
Canadacana

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:58 pm
by John A Arkansawyer
I'm getting more and more interested in C&W that explains what's wrong with America: falt-country.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:40 pm
by Whispering Pines
Most all of the artists and bands mentioned in this thread have found their way into "Americanaland," including the Grateful Dead (Jerry got his feet wet playing bluegrass), the Rolling Stones (Gram Parsons turned Keith on to Merle Haggard and George Jones, among others), the Band (North Americana?) and, of course, the Byrds and the Burritos. And Dylan and the songwriters he inspired (Townes, Guy Clark, John Prine, Steve Earle, Lucinda, not to mention Neil Young, etc) are another thread that goes throughout the book. I'm also covering the country greats who clearly influenced Americana songwriters (like Willie, Merle, Buck, Johnny Cash, and Hank, who gets his own chapter). An interesting wrinkle is how Americana became a refuge for artists after they stopped having country hits, like Emmylou Harris (the Queen of Americana), Rodney Crowell, and Rosanne Cash. Along these same lines, it's an intriguing wrinkle that Kasey Musgraves, who's been ignored by country radio, has swept most all of the year's major TV music awards and is now up for album of the year at the next Americana Awards. Go figure.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:54 pm
by Clams
Whispering Pines wrote:Along these same lines, it's an intriguing wrinkle that Kasey Musgraves, who's been ignored by country radio, has swept most all of the year's major TV music awards and is now up for album of the year at the next Americana Awards. Go figure.
Which is extra-ironic given that her record Golden Hour probably fits more into the pop genre than anything related to country or Americana.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:03 pm
by John A Arkansawyer
Whispering Pines wrote:the Grateful Dead (Jerry got his feet wet playing bluegrass)
For someone who says he doesn't like the Dead, I sure brag a lot about my Uncle Roosevelt having a small part to play in that.

Re: DBT (and Jason) in Americanaland

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:48 pm
by Smitty
oilpiers wrote:
Smitty wrote:Even if you extend the alt.country label to the birth of country-rock in the 60's (I consider it late on the continuum - country rock>cowpunk/Paisley underground>alt.country), Wild Horses ain't the first anything. It's a perfect song but not at all groundbreaking or original. The Byrds, ISB, Burritos, Stone Poneys, Buffalo Springfield, Neil Young, the Band, Dylan, etc etc etc all beat "Wild Horses" to the punch.
Welp, it's all opinion. Burrito's are the only band listed that I would consider alt. country. Americana? Sure. Throw in CCR to some degree. Burritos never had a hit. Stones did country prior to Wild Horses, but again, none were really hits.
Stone Poneys, Byrds, Dylan (amongst others) had country-rock songs that charted before WH.

Alt.country, in my estimation and in most definitions that I've encountered, requires a punk influence (if not in sound at least in ethos). The first wave of what I would could consider alt.country started with Jason & Scorchers, Long Ryders, Blasters, green on red, rank & file, cowboy junkies etc, although I categorize them as being more proto alt country.

But yeah, it's all opinion.