Born in the USA

[Smitty]

Patterson guests on the latest episode of Steven Hyden's Celebration Rock podcast, which is currently doing a series on the Boss's 20th century records. Patterson's on to discuss "Born in the USA".

[Tequila Cowboy]

Cool. That's a record I have complicated feelings about. Curious to hear his thoughts.

[pearlbeer]

Cool. That's a record I have complicated feelings about. Curious to hear his thoughts.

If pinned down, Born in the USA would be my favorite Springsteen album. That might have more to do with my age and nostalgia, but it is my favorite.

[Clams]

Cool. That's a record I have complicated feelings about. Curious to hear his thoughts.

If pinned down, Born in the USA would be my favorite Springsteen album. That might have more to do with my age and nostalgia, but it is my favorite.

Suffers from a bit of 80's production syndrome but the songs are top notch. Love it.

[Smitty]

Darkness>Nebraska>ToL>River>BitUSA>BTR>Tom Joad>Magic>D&D>Greetings>Wild&Innocent>the rest

I could listen to Patterson pontificate on different records all day; I listen to Celebration Rock religiously and this episode is so much better than the ones before it; I got my fingers crossed that Craig Finn or Isbell get a shot.

[beantownbubba]

Patterson guests on the latest episode of Steven Hyden's Celebration Rock podcast, which is currently doing a series on the Boss's 20th century records. Patterson's on to discuss "Born in the USA".

Something about Springsteen's career being divided into 2 by century just hit me hard in the solar plexus. I have no problem w/ the concept, it makes as much sense as any other categorization and more than a good many, it was just reading the words that made me feel not just old but ancient.

As long as we're doing this again:

BTR, forever and always
Nebraska
Darkness (tied)
Tunnel of Love (tied)
Born in the USA
The Wild, The Innocent
The River
The Rising
We Shall Overcome (The Seeger Sessions)
The one good one that I keep confusing between Magic, Wrecking Ball and Working on a Dream (so how good could it really be?)
The one really good album that should have been made out of Human Touch and Lucky Town

[Smitty]

The one really good album that should have been made out of Human Touch and Lucky Town

I'm interested in seeing which tracks you think make the cut.

[beantownbubba]

The one really good album that should have been made out of Human Touch and Lucky Town

I'm interested in seeing which tracks you think make the cut.

I knew that was coming, I just didn't know who from. Now I'll actually have to listen to the damn things for the first time in ages to refresh my increasingly unreliable memory. It will happen, I just can't say when.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I love Patterson’s take on Dancing in the Dark as a great song that doesn’t sound like a great song. If you analyze it it’s got a great melody and solid lyrics but it literally provokes anger in me when I hear it. I’ve tried to get past that but I just can’t.

[Rocky]

I'm with Smitty. While I recognize the greatness of Born To Run, Darkness is my favorite Springsteen album.

Also agree with BTB. If he had combined those 2 records that came out at the same time it would have been much better as a single album. Soul Driver with Sam Moore is total bad ass.

[pearlbeer]

I love Patterson’s take on Dancing in the Dark as a great song that doesn’t sound like a great song. If you analyze it it’s got a great melody and solid lyrics but it literally provokes anger in me when I hear it. I’ve tried to get past that but I just can’t.

It works better when you do this while you listen to the song. Then, it will all make sense.

[beantownbubba]

It also helps if you're doing it w/ courtney cox.

[dogstar]

I love Patterson’s take on Dancing in the Dark as a great song that doesn’t sound like a great song. If you analyze it it’s got a great melody and solid lyrics but it literally provokes anger in me when I hear it. I’ve tried to get past that but I just can’t.

The main problem with it is eighties production and that synth line, plus at the live shows he's played it to death, I usually use it as a cue for a bathroom break. Funnily enough I was talking about this song with my friends last Friday after seeing Caroline Spence perform it, she introduced it as her favourite song of all time. Her's a video of the way she does it, which seems more Nebraska than BITUSA, which has at least gone some of the way toward convincing me it's not a bad as I though it was

[Iowan]

Cool. That's a record I have complicated feelings about. Curious to hear his thoughts.

If pinned down, Born in the USA would be my favorite Springsteen album. That might have more to do with my age and nostalgia, but it is my favorite.

Suffers from a bit of 80's production syndrome but the songs are top notch. Love it.

Exactly my thoughts.

[glennrwordman]

The one really good album that should have been made out of Human Touch and Lucky Town

I'm interested in seeing which tracks you think make the cut.

Hell, not that I was asked, but just to start the "argument":

Better Days
Lucky Town
If I Should Fall Behind
Living Proof
My Beautiful Reward
57 Channels
Roll of the Dice
Long Goodbye
With Every Wish
Pony Boy

I think that's a super-solid Bruce record.

[brett27295]

Most artists wish they could release something as good as Darkness on the Edge of Town. It's Springsteen's masterpiece and by far his best work. What's amazing about Darkness is the songs he recorded for the album and left on the cutting room floor.

I've said this before but it bears repeating, the songs on BITUSA are top notch (Downbound Train especially) but the 80's production and the sound of the drums almost ruin it for me. I like live versions of the songs better than the album versions, especially live versions from later tours.

[beantownbubba]

What's amazing about Darkness is the songs he recorded for the album and left on the cutting room floor.

Quoted for truth.

The fact that most have been released since is one of those "you used to have to be a real fan to know about and to know those songs, it's not the same when everybody can jump on the bandwagon" old fan/new fan divides.

[glennrwordman]

Very interesting points about "the artist's culpability" (if any) when a song that means ONE thing is misinterpreted because of the musical accompaniment/approach. Talking of course about the title track of BITUSA, but I completely think that some DBT songs, especially "Surrender Under Protest" with its "fist-raising" chorus, tempts serious misinterpretation. The verse lyrics make plain what it's about; but, like "Born in the U.S.A.", the super-simple chorus begs thinking it's meaning is something other than it is.

PH talks about his experience with "The Southern Thing" here, as we've heard before in interviews.

(I've always sung in bands, and written the lyrics, and taken them seriously. Many years ago, one of my bands auditioned a terrific, musical drummer, who expressed an interest in joining the songwriting. We said "sure", and asked to hear some of his songs. The music: terrific. Nimble, clever, tuneful. The lyrics? Cliched, awful, dumb. I made some gentle suggestions to alter some of the words, and he demurred, and said "no one listens to lyrics anyway." I said "In this band they do". He did not join us. But I wonder, given how often songs are just completely taken the wrong way ["The One I Love", "With or Without You", "One", "Every Breath You Take", etc...] if he was mostly right.)

[Tequila Cowboy]

Patterson did a better job describing how I feel about Born In the USA than I could ever do. We're mostly in agreement with the only differences being context and the personal connections that we all bring to music from our lives. Most people think I hate the record, but I think that's mostly because I push back at the love for it. There are some really top notch songs including Dancing in the Dark which I agree is a great song but I don't really like, the title track is great but I prefer the Nebraska outtake, Darlington County, Downbound Train and I'm on Fire are all excellent My Hometown is as well. The rest I find kind of meh and when you add the annoying production and they're hard to listen to. That said Springsteen managed to write and execute a mega album without sacrificing any integrity as far as I'm concerned and that's hard to do. I go back to what I said originally, I have complex feelings about this record and loved hearing Patterson talk about that same complexity from his perspective.

[Zip Up to Michigan]

The one really good album that should have been made out of Human Touch and Lucky Town

I'm interested in seeing which tracks you think make the cut.

Hell, not that I was asked, but just to start the "argument":

Better Days
Lucky Town
If I Should Fall Behind
Living Proof
My Beautiful Reward
57 Channels
Roll of the Dice
Long Goodbye
With Every Wish
Pony Boy

I think that's a super-solid Bruce record.

Hmmm... I consider "Pony Boy" and "57 Channels" a couple of the few travesties to ever appear on a Springsteen album. I wish I could erase that live performance of "57 Channels" from SNL away from the memory bank. I also couldn't imagine leaving off the tune "Human Touch," which in my opinion, is the best song of the entire collection and possibly a top ten song of his career. "Real World" is also a fantastic tune that was terribly produced; the Christic acoustic/piano performance is one for the ages.

I don't have much to add on the BITUSA discussion. I'm in the camp that says it's clearly one of his best records with some incredible tunes but it's nowhere near my top Springsteen album.

I really liked how Patterson compared "Born in the USA" (the song) to "The Southern Thing." They both suffer from the same thing... And like I wish Bruce would play "Born in the USA" more (he rarely plays it stateside), I also wish Patterson would play "The Southern Thing " more. I totally get why they don't but there are those of us who actually understand song meanings and shouldn't have to suffer because most don't get it.

[Mundane Mayhem]

I also wish Patterson would play "The Southern Thing " more. I totally get why they don't but there are those of us who actually understand song meanings and shouldn't have to suffer because most don't get it.

My hope was that post-AB, this might be less of a concern. I think the Truckers have pretty well rid themselves of the kind of fan who would bring the stars & bars to a concert. Or like Patterson said in the promotional materials for AB, they've left no doubt as to which side they're on.

Obviously, at this point, that hasn't really manifested itself in a willingness to play "The Southern Thing" more often, but the risk of misinterpretation seems smaller than perhaps it used to be.

[Iowan]

I'll still never understand how the lyric "ain't about no flag, it's the only thing that my truck would wanna drag" didn't make it abundantly clear

[beantownbubba]

I'll still never understand how the lyric "ain't about no flag, it's the only thing that my truck would wanna drag" didn't make it abundantly clear

Man, "they" play "Every Breath You Take" at weddings! Most people just don't get most things. There's no 'splainin' it.

I am working on my Human Touch/Lucky Town combined album. It's taking a while 'cause, you know, there's a lot of mediocre to poor material on there and it's hard to motivate myself to listen to it all. I agree w/ Zip Michigan that the song "Human Touch" needs to be on there, I part ways at the "top 10 Springsteen" evaluation.

[Cole Younger]

I also wish Patterson would play "The Southern Thing " more. I totally get why they don't but there are those of us who actually understand song meanings and shouldn't have to suffer because most don't get it.

My hope was that post-AB, this might be less of a concern. I think the Truckers have pretty well rid themselves of the kind of fan who would bring the stars & bars to a concert. Or like Patterson said in the promotional materials for AB, they've left no doubt as to which side they're on.

Obviously, at this point, that hasn't really manifested itself in a willingness to play "The Southern Thing" more often, but the risk of misinterpretation seems smaller than perhaps it used to be.

I have never understood why Patterson worries about that so much. At some point you are letting other people and what they might think have control over you. Like bubba said,lots of people misunderstand songs. After you have done an entire record worth of songs explaining that you are a politically liberal band you have done all you can do in terms of making sure people know what your views are. Play the song. You will never have one hundred percent of your audience on the same page as you but that doesn't matter.

[Iowan]

I also wish Patterson would play "The Southern Thing " more. I totally get why they don't but there are those of us who actually understand song meanings and shouldn't have to suffer because most don't get it.

My hope was that post-AB, this might be less of a concern. I think the Truckers have pretty well rid themselves of the kind of fan who would bring the stars & bars to a concert. Or like Patterson said in the promotional materials for AB, they've left no doubt as to which side they're on.

Obviously, at this point, that hasn't really manifested itself in a willingness to play "The Southern Thing" more often, but the risk of misinterpretation seems smaller than perhaps it used to be.

I have never understood why Patterson worries about that so much. At some point you are letting other people and what they might think have control over you. Like bubba said,lots of people misunderstand songs. After you have done an entire record worth of songs explaining that you are a politically liberal band you have done all you can do in terms of making sure people know what your views are. Play the song. You will never have one hundred percent of your audience on the same page as you but that doesn't matter.

My guess is at this point he's less concerned about people who wave the rebel flag misinterpreting it, and more worried about the Portlandia crowd misinterpreting it.

And to this point, I'm not sure how anyone on that side of the spectrum could misinterpret it either, but idiots know no specific banner.

[Iowan]

I'll still never understand how the lyric "ain't about no flag, it's the only thing that my truck would wanna drag" didn't make it abundantly clear

Man, "they" play "Every Breath You Take" at weddings! Most people just don't get most things. There's no 'splainin' it.

I am working on my Human Touch/Lucky Town combined album. It's taking a while 'cause, you know, there's a lot of mediocre to poor material on there and it's hard to motivate myself to listen to it all. I agree w/ Zip Michigan that the song "Human Touch" needs to be on there, I part ways at the "top 10 Springsteen" evaluation.

I've heard "One" by U2 at a wedding too. Yup, people are idiots.

[Cole Younger]

Oh I think you're dead on the money, Iowan. Again, who cares?

[Mr. B]

I'll still never understand how the lyric "ain't about no flag, it's the only thing that my truck would wanna drag" didn't make it abundantly clear

Man, "they" play "Every Breath You Take" at weddings! Most people just don't get most things. There's no 'splainin' it.

I am working on my Human Touch/Lucky Town combined album. It's taking a while 'cause, you know, there's a lot of mediocre to poor material on there and it's hard to motivate myself to listen to it all. I agree w/ Zip Michigan that the song "Human Touch" needs to be on there, I part ways at the "top 10 Springsteen" evaluation.

I've heard "One" by U2 at a wedding too. Yup, people are idiots.

Well, we had our wedding band learn and play "Marry Me" at our wedding.

[Iowan]

I've heard "One" by U2 at a wedding too. Yup, people are idiots.

Well, we had our wedding band learn and play "Marry Me" at our wedding.

Yeah, but that's just bad ass. "Marry Me" actually has a sweet sentiment to it.

I once played/sang it at a friend's wedding, with the wedding band. They didn't know it, but had all heard the song and figured it out. It was completely unplanned. I was an usher, and creamed at that point. The best part was that my buddy and has wife had a two year old, so the opening lines got a few looks from the crowd.

[Iowan]

Oh I think you're dead on the money, Iowan. Again, who cares?

Patterson, I guess.