Incredibly sad after tonight's show....

[Wolf]

nevermind......

[Cole Younger]

[quote="DebbieTrucker"]I never said anyone had to agree with every word. I'm saying it's hypocritical for "fans" to have negative thoughts about the band they love because of their beliefs as a band. Music is art and art is performance. Those same fans can run their mouths about every one of their opinions without any backlash? That's ludicrous and one sided. A band's music is music that's it. I consider the dialogue in between songs to go with that as either explaining the meaning of a song or updating the meaning of a song. That passion of words spoken at a show is what causes them to write passionate meaningful songs we love or respect or appreciate....whatever level you are at with them.[/quote]

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

[Clams]

Excellent discussion. Keep it going.

[OkieinTexas]

EBNL

Ran through my mental list of DBT acronyms/initialisms for a good five minutes before I realized this must be "Everybody Needs Love," ostensibly in reference to Eddie Hinton's struggles. Just in case anyone else out there is doing some chin-scratching. Or maybe I'm just t
he worst fan here.

My bad on the typo. I am certainly not the smartest person on the board but I am aware "everybody" is one word.

[Flea]

Just playing devil's advocate and bringing this thread home, so ya'll go easy on me, but I don't think bravo66's quandary is a crazy one. While my political leanings and his (appear to be) very different, it bums me out that his/her favorite band seems to be moving out of his/her life. That sucks, and that's why I'd encourage you to HANG IN THERE! Ya'll may be thinking "fuck it, it's one person, and it's his choice." But I think how we react to a decent person who is conflicted and reaching out says a lot about us as a community. I hope most of us can appreciate a different opinion (assuming that the opinion is not racist, bigoted, etc., and nothing indicates bravo66 feels that way in the slightest).

Are you at home right now? Because I'm driving to Norfolk to give you a big wet sloppy open-mouthed kiss.

[beantownbubba]

Are you at home right now? Because I'm driving to Norfolk to give you a big wet sloppy open-mouthed kiss.

I believe I speak for ramonz when I say that he is not receiving visitors just now.

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

I don't want to speak for you CY, but i think it's also relevant that fans pay real money to attend a concert, which implies a musical event. Whether "musical event" covers political statements from the stage is I think a very open question but there are 2 sides to it. And then there's that money thing.

[Wolf]

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

I don't want to speak for you CY, but i think it's also relevant that fans pay real money to attend a concert, which implies a musical event. Whether "musical event" covers political statements from the stage is I think a very open question but there are 2 sides to it. And then there's that money thing.[/quote]
like goin' to a broadway show and listen' to some hypocrite, racist, sexist give the new VP a lecture on treatin' folkjs right

[Cole Younger]

Are you at home right now? Because I'm driving to Norfolk to give you a big wet sloppy open-mouthed kiss.

I believe I speak for ramonz when I say that he is not receiving visitors just now.

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

I don't want to speak for you CY, but i think it's also relevant that fans pay real money to attend a concert, which implies a musical event. Whether "musical event" covers political statements from the stage is I think a very open question but there are 2 sides to it. And then there's that money thing.

Excellent point. the fact that I'm paying money doesn't mean I have a right to expect to get it all my way. But it sure as heck means I get to have an opinion about what happens.

[Smitty]

We can all run our mouths and catch shit for it. The bands no different, and I'm sure they know that and can handle it.

It's unfortunate some longtime fans feel "left behind", but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Cooley and Patterson don't have a responsibility to any of us to censor or cater to our feelings. Of course that may be easy for someone who agrees with them to say, but what's the alternative?

Fuck that "shut up and sing" shit. That's patronising and demeaning to what the band stands for and has always been about, and I've never liked it when it's said regarding any artist.

Hank Jr. has said some absolutely deplorable shit but I would still go see him (well, maybe if the tickets were comped or really cheap and there wasn't anything else to do). I wouldn't wear an Obama hat to a Bocephus show and I'd ignore the banter and just enjoy the music. Of course his banter would mostly focus on what country Obama was born in, which is ridiculous but whatever. Cooley's banter Saturday night was about the gun lobby (even if I disagreed, is that really subject to get your rankles up about?), the fact that women aren't trash (hopefully we can all agree), mid term elections (big surprise there) and the "redneck"comment. OK, so he said it a little angrily, a lil harshly maybe, and I don't mean to sound dismissive, but get over it?

[Flea]

Are you at home right now? Because I'm driving to Norfolk to give you a big wet sloppy open-mouthed kiss.

I believe I speak for ramonz when I say that he is not receiving visitors just now.

How about you? Are you home? I can be there by tomorrow for Thanksgiving lunch...

[Eyes Above It]

Fuck that "shut up and sing" shit. That's patronising and demeaning to what the band stands for and has always been about, and I've never liked it when it's said regarding any artist.

Hank Jr. has said some absolutely deplorable shit but I would still go see him (well, maybe if the tickets were comped or really cheap and there wasn't anything else to do). I wouldn't wear an Obama hat to a Bocephus show and I'd ignore the banter and just enjoy the music. Of course his banter would mostly focus on what country Obama was born in, which is ridiculous but whatever. Cooley's banter Saturday night was about the gun lobby (even if I disagreed, is that really subject to get your rankles up about?), the fact that women aren't trash (hopefully we can all agree), mid term elections (big surprise there) and the "redneck"comment. OK, so he said it a little angrily, a lil harshly maybe, and I don't mean to sound dismissive, but get over it?

Great post, as much as I don't always agree with Hood and Cooley on political/social issues, I would be disappointed in them if they shut their mouths.

[John A Arkansawyer]

As I told bravo, I'm not giving up on the band and I'm not mad at anybody. But for the time being, I'll just take a break from the shows. It's really not that big of a deal. I can feel that way and still be a fan. It's really not hard. Fans don't have to be in lock step with an artist.

That kind of bums me out, because I've never yet gotten it together to hang with you. The irony is that we got to talking some over a question very much like this. I got that you were a good guy from it and decided to try to know you better. And of course didn't get it done yet. But someday--someday!

So I hope to meet a number of you at HC '17 and then we'll see from there...

So here's a chance to not make the same mistake with someone else. I will see you there and get it together to have an actual conversation or two!

[DebbieTrucker]

I never said anyone had to agree with every word. I'm saying it's hypocritical for "fans" to have negative thoughts about the band they love because of their beliefs as a band. Music is art and art is performance. Those same fans can run their mouths about every one of their opinions without any backlash? That's ludicrous and one sided. A band's music is music that's it. I consider the dialogue in between songs to go with that as either explaining the meaning of a song or updating the meaning of a song. That passion of words spoken at a show is what causes them to write passionate meaningful songs we love or respect or appreciate....whatever level you are at with them.

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

No they just go to a band's "fan site" and slam them for being passionate about the new music they have made on stage because it doesn't agree with their own fan beliefs is all.

[Cole Younger]

I never said anyone had to agree with every word. I'm saying it's hypocritical for "fans" to have negative thoughts about the band they love because of their beliefs as a band. Music is art and art is performance. Those same fans can run their mouths about every one of their opinions without any backlash? That's ludicrous and one sided. A band's music is music that's it. I consider the dialogue in between songs to go with that as either explaining the meaning of a song or updating the meaning of a song. That passion of words spoken at a show is what causes them to write passionate meaningful songs we love or respect or appreciate....whatever level you are at with them.

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

No they just go to a band's "fan site" and slam them for being passionate about the new music they have made on stage because it doesn't agree with their own fan beliefs is all.

Swwwwwwwing and a miss! Feel free to point out where I slammed anyone. I expressed empathy and understanding with the op and my own desire to not listen to angry stage banter and gave the reason why. If you think I'm slamming anyone with any of these posts I've made I think that says more about you than me.

[Cole Younger]

Smitty Only you know as far as you not being bothered by stage banter. I somehow think if Hank Jr. brought If The South Would Have Won back into regular rotation in his live shows and did some of the drunken ranting he used to engage in, you probably wouldn't like that anymore than I like this and wouldn't just get over it and would probably be talking about it here in some pretty pointed terms and wouldn't go to anymore of his shows. Fwiw I wouldn't want to hear If The South Would Have Won myself and wouldn't want to be in the middle of him raising hell and riling up his audience. Not my brand of beer.

I'm not bothered by a lot, I think I'm pretty tolerant of views different from mine. I get over most things pretty easily. I'm a big boy and have pretty thick skin. The Truckers have made political comments at nearly every show I've been to. I really didn't care. I either just listened or used that as my signal to go get a beer, take a leak, or visit the merch table. So I don't see why anyone would get their drawers in a knot just because some people don't care for this sort of thing. I haven't seen anybody insult the band or act as if Patterson and Cooley should not be allowed to say what they want to say but instead just express their opinion on that sort of thing. So the "get over it" thing is a two way street.

John A, no worries my brother. We will get together at a show and it will happen sooner than later.

[Flea]

I never said anyone had to agree with every word. I'm saying it's hypocritical for "fans" to have negative thoughts about the band they love because of their beliefs as a band. Music is art and art is performance. Those same fans can run their mouths about every one of their opinions without any backlash? That's ludicrous and one sided. A band's music is music that's it. I consider the dialogue in between songs to go with that as either explaining the meaning of a song or updating the meaning of a song. That passion of words spoken at a show is what causes them to write passionate meaningful songs we love or respect or appreciate....whatever level you are at with them.

Um, a fan can have opinions with less backlash because a fan is t up on stage in front of people giving their opinion and the band is, there is nothing hypocritical about it. The fan just doesn't have the platform the band has and thus their opinion is t received by as many people and doesn't get as many reactions. It's no mare complicated than that and there is nothing unfair about it. The band chose to get up on stage after all.

No they just go to a band's "fan site" and slam them for being passionate about the new music they have made on stage because it doesn't agree with their own fan beliefs is all.

Cole is a big boy and can certainly defend himself, but if that is a passive-aggressive insult rather than a general observation - well, it's not helpful.

[Flea]

Perhaps this thread needs to be merged into the never-ending political bullshit thing.

[beantownbubba]

Are you at home right now? Because I'm driving to Norfolk to give you a big wet sloppy open-mouthed kiss.

I believe I speak for ramonz when I say that he is not receiving visitors just now.

How about you? Are you home? I can be there by tomorrow for Thanksgiving lunch...

The door is open, the beer is cold, the wine is tasty, the food is plentiful and delicious and I can promise cigarette lighters in every room. But I should tell you that newbies do have to sing their school song while wearing a hula skirt.

[beantownbubba]

I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns here but I do want to point out one possible reason for some of the talking past each other that 's going on: This thread is actually about someone specific who described a specific situation, which is that he gets the band's politics, doesn't agree w/ them, doesn't let them bother him as far as being able to love the music, but finds the pronouncements from the stage (or at least the ones at a specific show) difficult to take and laments that they interfere w/ his enjoyment of the show. That's different than what I think some posters may be addressing, which is the people who got outraged that the band was "suddenly political," took it as a personal insult and vowed never to listen to the band again, or some such. Those aren't the same things.

[Wolf]

I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns here but I do want to point out one possible reason for some of the talking past each other that 's going on: This thread is actually about someone specific who described a specific situation, which is that he gets the band's politics, doesn't agree w/ them, doesn't let them bother him as far as being able to love the music, but finds the pronouncements from the stage (or at least the ones at a specific show) difficult to take and laments that they interfere w/ his enjoyment of the show. That's different than what I think some posters may be addressing, which is the people who got outraged that the band was "suddenly political," took it as a personal insult and vowed never to listen to the band again, or some such. Those aren't the same things.

you are right on with this.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Cooley's banter Saturday night was about the gun lobby (even if I disagreed, is that really subject to get your rankles up about?), the fact that women aren't trash (hopefully we can all agree), mid term elections (big surprise there) and the "redneck"comment. OK, so he said it a little angrily, a lil harshly maybe, and I don't mean to sound dismissive, but get over it?

There was something else in the banter (not the word I'd use, but it's the house dressing)--two something elses, really. One was the news that Love Like This was written in the interest of empathy. The other is about how to live your life. Shut Your Mouth And Get On The Plane is a great Stoic lesson about life, as is "You can get scared or you can get angry". The night before in Tuscaloosa, he started it with "We're all going down someday" or words to that effect. Harsh but necessary truth.

The thing about the gun lobby? That was well crafted. You could hear both Cooley's love for guitars and craftsmanship and his disgust with dishonesty and scamming. Whether one agrees with it or not (as you know, I'm not against guns and am thinking about getting a concealed carry permit for these unsettled times, as I have the kid and the kid's mom to think about), it was a beautiful piece of rhetoric, well delivered, which the crowd shut up and listened to without being told.

Years back, I was at a conference at the World Bank, and one of the panels had three people representing each side. I was slightly acquainted with one of the good guys on the right side, who I think very highly of, and anxious to hear what everyone had to say. One guy on the the other side was a truly gifted orator, who in his closing statement put out some ridiculous bullshit that I thought was ridiculous bullshit even as I was rising to my feet with everyone else to applaud.

It was one of the damnedest things I've ever seen (and believe me, I know damned things). I wasn't rising out of courtesy, or out of respect. I rose because he roused me onto my feet against my will.

It was a remarkable experience and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

[Cole Younger]

I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns here but I do want to point out one possible reason for some of the talking past each other that 's going on: This thread is actually about someone specific who described a specific situation, which is that he gets the band's politics, doesn't agree w/ them, doesn't let them bother him as far as being able to love the music, but finds the pronouncements from the stage (or at least the ones at a specific show) difficult to take and laments that they interfere w/ his enjoyment of the show. That's different than what I think some posters may be addressing, which is the people who got outraged that the band was "suddenly political," took it as a personal insult and vowed never to listen to the band again, or some such. Those aren't the same things.

Spot on, bubba. That's exactly what's going on. I really have nothing left to say on the matter either. Except, you're my boy, Flea! I think there's an even chance that I just need another late night trip to the Waffle House with you and Rod.

[Smitty]

Smitty Only you know as far as you not being bothered by stage banter. I somehow think if Hank Jr. brought If The South Would Have Won back into regular rotation in his live shows and did some of the drunken ranting he used to engage in, you probably wouldn't like that anymore than I like this and wouldn't just get over it and would probably be talking about it here in some pretty pointed terms and wouldn't go to anymore of his shows. Fwiw I wouldn't want to hear If The South Would Have Won myself and wouldn't want to be in the middle of him raising hell and riling up his audience. Not my brand of beer.

I've seen Bocephus twice; I don't know if he played that particular song, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, and I got no idea if it's still in his setlists. Would it bother me if I was at his show and he played it? Not really, as I kind of expect that kinda shit but honestly I can overlook it as it's a brain dead nonsensical song meant to appeal to rednecks. That's his bread and butter, and I get that. It's offensive and downright destructive on one level but whatever, most of Hank Jr's songs are not high art (although some of his material has a depth that he's not given credit for) and that's not why I would go to his show.

[Cole Younger]

Smitty Only you know as far as you not being bothered by stage banter. I somehow think if Hank Jr. brought If The South Would Have Won back into regular rotation in his live shows and did some of the drunken ranting he used to engage in, you probably wouldn't like that anymore than I like this and wouldn't just get over it and would probably be talking about it here in some pretty pointed terms and wouldn't go to anymore of his shows. Fwiw I wouldn't want to hear If The South Would Have Won myself and wouldn't want to be in the middle of him raising hell and riling up his audience. Not my brand of beer.

I've seen Bocephus twice; I don't know if he played that particular song, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, and I got no idea if it's still in his setlists. Would it bother me if I was at his show and he played it? Not really, as I kind of expect that kinda shit but honestly I can overlook it as it's a brain dead nonsensical song meant to appeal to rednecks. That's his bread and butter, and I get that. It's offensive and downright destructive on one level but whatever, most of Hank Jr's songs are not high art (although some of his material has a depth that he's not given credit for) and that's not why I would go to his show.

I believe that. So let me me use another example. Lets say Hillary won. If there were a bunch of people down front with a sign that said, "Basket of deplorables." and Hank said, "yall ain't deplorables. Nobody here called you that. Some fuckin elitist bitch called you that. Now you got two choices. Get scared or get mad. It's time to get fuckin mad!"

I'm just sayin.

Ok now I really am done with this.

[Smitty]

I believe that. So let me me use another example. Lets say Hillary won. If there were a bunch of people down front with a sign that said, "Basket of deplorables." and Hank said, "yall ain't deplorables. Nobody here called you that. Some fuckin elitist bitch called you that. Now you got two choices. Get scared or get mad. It's time to get fuckin mad!"

I'm just sayin.

Ok now I really am done with this.

I'm done after this as well, but I would not be offended at all. That sounds plausible, and of course a crowd of Bocephus fans would feel that way! Hell, there's a small part of me that would feel empathetic to that comment.

Bottom line is I know where Hank Jr's politics lie just as clearly as anyone should know about where the DBT's are. I would not be surprised, offended or saddened because they actually expressed their well-known views.

[LBRod]

The door is open, the beer is cold, the wine is tasty, the food is plentiful and delicious and I can promise cigarette lighters in every room. But I should tell you that newbies do have to sing their school song while wearing a hula skirt.

I can do my high school song, but not college. Hula skirt is no problem.

[Swamp]

"I don't knnow where they come from but they sure do come
I hope they come and they go"

Love me some Ted Nugent................well until he cut his hair. What a ass.

[brett27295]

No they just go to a band's "fan site" and slam them for being passionate about the new music they have made on stage because it doesn't agree with their own fan beliefs is all.

So what? Discussion is a good thing.

[John A Arkansawyer]

"I don't knnow where they come from but they sure do come
I hope they come and they go"

Love me some Ted Nugent................well until he cut his hair. What a ass.

God, I loved that record. It was different from most of my music, and I never cottoned to much else by him except some of the first record, which really does rock. But I got off on it big time for several teenage years.

I wish I knew how much of Ted is bullshit and how much is sincere and how much is sincere bullshit (a plurality, I bet).

ETA: Too soon? No, not at all. So Happy Bitchin' Holidays, Merry Motherfucking Christmas, and a Goddam Happy And Much Improved New Year! And be thankful--there are no vocals on this excellent track!

[Agerst1574]

"I don't knnow where they come from but they sure do come
I hope they come and they go"

Love me some Ted Nugent................well until he cut his hair. What a ass.

God, I loved that record. It was different from most of my music, and I never cottoned to much else by him except some of the first record, which really does rock. But I got off on it big time for several teenage years.

I wish I knew how much of Ted is bullshit and how much is sincere and how much is sincere bullshit (a plurality, I bet).

ETA: Too soon? No, not at all. So Happy Bitchin' Holidays, Merry Motherfucking Christmas, and a Goddam Happy And Much Improved New Year! And be thankful--there are no vocals on this excellent track!

I hate Ted Nugent's political views. But I love the first two albums and still listen to them. The first album is one of my favorite guitar albums of all time and I love Derek St.Holmes' vocals.