Incredibly sad after tonight's show....

[OkieinTexas]

I kind of felt the same way when DBT was bagging on Reagan prior to EBNL concerning how he turned his back of the mentally ill (it was several years ago and I was conservative at the time). After getting home and performing research, damn if Patterson wasn't right.
To me, stage banter isn't that big of a deal. As long as they bring the rock, I don't care. But if I learn something, then better for me. If not, ignore it and wait for the next song.
I think the band feels a high level of frustration with our country as I do, but instead of just gripping to a friend they can do it in front of a large audience, as I would do given the chance.
Anyway, I guess we just have to see how this plays out.

Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving and if you worried about political discussions at the dinner table, don't forget the joint.

[John A Arkansawyer]

^^^^Nicely said, man. And I still blame Reagan for my best friend's daughter killing herself after seeking and not finding the help she needed. It contributed a little to her mom's death, I think, and a lot to her dad's. I loved those people.

[ndavis86]

EBNL

Ran through my mental list of DBT acronyms/initialisms for a good five minutes before I realized this must be "Everybody Needs Love," ostensibly in reference to Eddie Hinton's struggles. Just in case anyone else out there is doing some chin-scratching. Or maybe I'm just the worst fan here.

[John A Arkansawyer]

EBNL

Ran through my mental list of DBT acronyms/initialisms for a good five minutes before I realized this must be "Everybody Needs Love," ostensibly in reference to Eddie Hinton's struggles. Just in case anyone else out there is doing some chin-scratching. Or maybe I'm just the worst fan here.

I'm sure you're a perfectly good fan, but I'm not sure I want you on my Scrabble team. It took me a moment, no longer.

[Swamp]

Spoken truly by someone whose life will not be affected by Trump's reign of terror. I suppose it would be too much to ask for you to show a little concern for those whose will?

I work with several gay and Black folks, who are also not fearing for their lives, so no, I'm not concerned.

That's who I'm supposed to worry about, right?

We all generalize from our own experience and that's one reason why we're all so wrong so often.

Edited once for usage.

And they often vote based on those experiences. My middle brother was a radio operator in the coast guard. He was one of the radio operators during the real perfect storm. He is also gay yet he voted for Trump. His reason; if he had done what Hillary did he'd be in a federal prison. My mother who would have voted for Hillary in 2008 voted for Trump with the slight hope he end my brother's marrage.
A happy customer is easier to work for than an angry one so the black folks that I know, who are in the same business as me, voted Trump.

[John A Arkansawyer]

My mother who would have voted for Hillary in 2008 voted for Trump with the slight hope he end my brother's marrage.

The reason Southerners love their families is that loving your family and loving the South is the same goddam fight, just at different scale.

[DebbieTrucker]

In all honesty this has turned into a political debate which really isn't the purpose. People can say everyone they know voted for Trump and so on but Hillary won the popular vote. So there were 1 or 2 Hillary voters out there lol. Due to an outdated 18th century means however Donald is president and for at least 4 years we all must deal with it, happy or not. This forum should be about the best band alive and DBT and their music. That being said music has always been about personal opinion, reflection, story telling and yes protest. DBT should not be singled out by people for doing what the industry has done since the beginning of time. Would it be better for those disillusioned with their fav band right now if it was the Ramones singing protest songs as known Republicans? DBT woke up today liberals and will tomorrow, this isn't a fight fans can win trying to change their right to create the music they feel passionate about and believe in. Not happening.

[ramonz]

In all honesty this has turned into a political debate which really isn't the purpose. People can say everyone they know voted for Trump and so on but Hillary won the popular vote. So there were 1 or 2 Hillary voters out there lol. Due to an outdated 18th century means however Donald is president and for at least 4 years we all must deal with it, happy or not. This forum should be about the best band alive and DBT and their music. That being said music has always been about personal opinion, reflection, story telling and yes protest. DBT should not be singled out by people for doing what the industry has done since the beginning of time. Would it be better for those disillusioned with their fav band right now if it was the Ramones singing protest songs as known Republicans? DBT woke up today liberals and will tomorrow, this isn't a fight fans can win trying to change their right to create the music they feel passionate about and believe in. Not happening.

Debbie, I agree, so bring it back to the initial post. Screw bravo66, or encourage him/her to stick it out because the DBT community is a big tent and we're all trying to make sense of some crazy shit and we'll get through it together?

(Ramones: Johnny was a right-winger for sure, but Joey was the polar opposite)

[DebbieTrucker]

(Ramones: Johnny was a right-winger for sure, but Joey was the polar opposite)

Yes that is true the struggle between Johnny and Joey and their political views were very apparent. However Johnny was very outspoken about his ultra conservative views through out their career. Ex. When they were inducted into the RRHOF and he wore his Bush shirt and praised him on stage. I mean I wasn't offended and didn't think twice. He's intitled to that right as an artist and I respect it and still love The Ramones. Lol clearly you do too. I don't see what all the madness is about because I as a fan can separate their music from their right to their own personal beliefs.

[tinnitus photography]

Thanks for another chuckle btb.

With me or at me? If at me pls explain because I don't understand.

as trolls go, you are no Skankhunt420

[ndavis86]

EBNL

Ran through my mental list of DBT acronyms/initialisms for a good five minutes before I realized this must be "Everybody Needs Love," ostensibly in reference to Eddie Hinton's struggles. Just in case anyone else out there is doing some chin-scratching. Or maybe I'm just the worst fan here.

I'm sure you're a perfectly good fan, but I'm not sure I want you on my Scrabble team. It took me a moment, no longer.

And to think: I write for a living! To be fair, it was well past my bedtime. Maybe since "everybody" only registers as one word, my left brain couldn't find it.

The hunt for a Scrabble partner continues.

[dime in the gutter]

more than a few parallels with skynyrd and their fan base not fully understanding what the band is/was all about.

swamp...give us some stories about ronnie pissing off the freebird faithful.


have trump voters/conservative types been mythologizing dbt for all these years?

[John A Arkansawyer]

have trump voters/conservative types been mythologizing dbt for all these years?

In the words of a man who wrote good songs decades ago, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Cooley could have written that line, you know.)

[beantownbubba]

Ran through my mental list of DBT acronyms/initialisms for a good five minutes before I realized this must be "Everybody Needs Love," ostensibly in reference to Eddie Hinton's struggles. Just in case anyone else out there is doing some chin-scratching. Or maybe I'm just the worst fan here.

I'm sure you're a perfectly good fan, but I'm not sure I want you on my Scrabble team. It took me a moment, no longer.

And to think: I write for a living! To be fair, it was well past my bedtime. Maybe since "everybody" only registers as one word, my left brain couldn't find it.

The hunt for a Scrabble partner continues.

If it helps you avoid an identity crisis, I had the same experience for the same reason. I will let others decide whether being lumped w/ me helps or hurts your cause, but it is offered w/ the best intentions.

[Rocky]

Everybody is one word.....for fuck's sake!

[ndavis86]

I will let others decide whether being lumped w/ me helps or hurts your cause, but it is offered w/ the best intentions.

An honor and a privilege, as far as I'm concerned.

[ramonz]

(Ramones: Johnny was a right-winger for sure, but Joey was the polar opposite)

Yes that is true the struggle between Johnny and Joey and their political views were very apparent. However Johnny was very outspoken about his ultra conservative views through out their career. Ex. When they were inducted into the RRHOF and he wore his Bush shirt and praised him on stage. I mean I wasn't offended and didn't think twice. He's intitled to that right as an artist and I respect it and still love The Ramones. Lol clearly you do too. I don't see what all the madness is about because I as a fan can separate their music from their right to their own personal beliefs.

I think the difference (and not judging the Ramones or DBT), is that the bruddahs never got political at the shows. Only Joey talked (unless you count Dee Dee's 1-2-3-4!), and they all wore the uniform - chucks, jeans, tee, and leather jacket - so not even subtle displays of opinion were evident. They were devoid of politics - at the shows. That is, except when Joey sang "KKK Took My Baby Away" (slam on Johnny and his right-wing ways and for stealing his girlfriend) or "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg (slam on Reagan for visiting a cemetery in Germany that had nazi soldiers in it). So I'd say, outside of some Johnny interviews and the end-of-career HOF thing, most fans thought the Ramones were at the very least apolitical.

But imagine if Johnny had snarled (because he snarled!) "The US isn't ready for Sandra Day O'Connor" or "that No Nukes concert is total bullshit!" between songs at the shows. Would you have been as keen on the band as you were? I certainly wouldn't have. Maybe the difference is (today) we expect the political banter from DBT....and with the Ramones, it would have been a big surprise. (but there was a time when the BLM sign was a jolting surprise to many fans too)

Just playing devil's advocate and bringing this thread home, so ya'll go easy on me, but I don't think bravo66's quandary is a crazy one. While my political leanings and his (appear to be) very different, it bums me out that his/her favorite band seems to be moving out of his/her life. That sucks, and that's why I'd encourage you to HANG IN THERE! Ya'll may be thinking "fuck it, it's one person, and it's his choice." But I think how we react to a decent person who is conflicted and reaching out says a lot about us as a community. I hope most of us can appreciate a different opinion (assuming that the opinion is not racist, bigoted, etc., and nothing indicates bravo66 feels that way in the slightest).

EDIT: hopefully it is obvious that I am in no way implying that Johnny's hypothetical rants are in any way remotely the same as what our guys are fighting for.

[beantownbubba]

(Ramones: Johnny was a right-winger for sure, but Joey was the polar opposite)

Yes that is true the struggle between Johnny and Joey and their political views were very apparent. However Johnny was very outspoken about his ultra conservative views through out their career. Ex. When they were inducted into the RRHOF and he wore his Bush shirt and praised him on stage. I mean I wasn't offended and didn't think twice. He's intitled to that right as an artist and I respect it and still love The Ramones. Lol clearly you do too. I don't see what all the madness is about because I as a fan can separate their music from their right to their own personal beliefs.

I think the difference (and not judging the Ramones or DBT), is that the bruddahs never got political at the shows. Only Joey talked (unless you count Dee Dee's 1-2-3-4!), and they all wore the uniform - chucks, jeans, tee, and leather jacket - so not even subtle displays of opinion were evident. They were devoid of politics - at the shows. That is, except when Joey sang "KKK Took My Baby Away" (slam on Johnny and his right-wing ways and for stealing his girlfriend) or "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg (slam on Reagan for visiting a cemetery in Germany that had nazi soldiers in it). So I'd say, outside of some Johnny interviews and the end-of-career HOF thing, most fans thought the Ramones were at the very least apolitical.

But imagine if Johnny had snarled (because he snarled!) "The US isn't ready for Sandra Day O'Connor" or "that No Nukes concert is total bullshit!" between songs at the shows. Would you have been as keen on the band as you were? I certainly wouldn't have. Maybe the difference is (today) we expect the political banter from DBT....and with the Ramones, it would have been a big surprise. (but there was a time when the BLM sign was a jolting surprise to many fans too)

Just playing devil's advocate and bringing this thread home, so ya'll go easy on me, but I don't think bravo66's quandary is a crazy one. While my political leanings and his (appear to be) very different, it bums me out that his/her favorite band seems to be moving out of his/her life. That sucks, and that's why I'd encourage you to HANG IN THERE! Ya'll may be thinking "fuck it, it's one person, and it's his choice." But I think how we react to a decent person who is conflicted and reaching out says a lot about us as a community. I hope most of us can appreciate a different opinion (assuming that the opinion is not racist, bigoted, etc., and nothing indicates bravo66 feels that way in the slightest).

Once again, ramonz, very well said. I agree that this is a difficult issue and one of the reasons it's difficult is that it almost always affects only one portion of the listening audience. I often wonder how I would feel about a favorite band/artist which was public about its politics if I found those politics distasteful. I'd like to think I could separate the music from the politics, but could I really? I don't know and I doubt I'll ever be tested. I mean c'mon, Ted Nugent?

I think in the short term maybe it's enough to acknowledge that this is harder for some people than others and as long as those some people want to remain fans and make an effort to make it all work, it's incumbent upon the fan community to meet them at least half way by acknowledging the difficulties, listening to their concerns and participating in reasoned discussion.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Just playing devil's advocate and bringing this thread home, so ya'll go easy on me, but I don't think bravo66's quandary is a crazy one. While my political leanings and his (appear to be) very different, it bums me out that his/her favorite band seems to be moving out of his/her life. That sucks, and that's why I'd encourage you to HANG IN THERE! Ya'll may be thinking "fuck it, it's one person, and it's his choice." But I think how we react to a decent person who is conflicted and reaching out says a lot about us as a community. I hope most of us can appreciate a different opinion (assuming that the opinion is not racist, bigoted, etc., and nothing indicates bravo66 feels that way in the slightest).

Co-sign. I know exactly how it would feel for me. I have had that feeling with some of my favorite writers. And when Neil Young talked right-wing crap about Latin America in 1980 (give or take a year), it hurt me. But I still loved his records, and I still do. Except the ones that aren't so good. Those I just like.

[DebbieTrucker]

My point is why are "fans" up in arms about a band's opinion or political leanings? They aren't judging us in any way as we are allowed to spout off whatever we want, sometimes in a very uneducated way. It seems like maybe the word fandom has become very hypocritical and one sided, almost like a "God" complex about the opinions of bands we like and how they should act for us. They are humans too and are exercising their freedom of speech right, through their only vehicle they know.....music. Until you are judged for every opinion you have political or otherwise its best to drop the hypocritical banter....just saying lol.

[John A Arkansawyer]

My point is why are "fans" up in arms about a band's opinion or political leanings? They aren't judging us in any way as we are allowed to spout off whatever we want, sometimes in a very uneducated way. It seems like maybe the word fandom has become very hypocritical and one sided, almost like a "God" complex about the opinions of bands we like and how they should act for us. They are humans too and are exercising their freedom of speech right, through their only vehicle they know.....music. Until you are judged for every opinion you have political or otherwise its best to drop the hypocritical banter....just saying lol.

I hear what you're saying, but I tell you: Cooley was most certainly judging last Saturday when he told whoever it was that triggered him that "Redneck isn't a goal, it's something to fuckin' rise above!" And I'm okay with that. It's part of what (some) artists do.

[beantownbubba]

My point is why are "fans" up in arms about a band's opinion or political leanings? They aren't judging us in any way as we are allowed to spout off whatever we want, sometimes in a very uneducated way. It seems like maybe the word fandom has become very hypocritical and one sided, almost like a "God" complex about the opinions of bands we like and how they should act for us. They are humans too and are exercising their freedom of speech right, through their only vehicle they know.....music. Until you are judged for every opinion you have political or otherwise its best to drop the hypocritical banter....just saying lol.

Unless I misunderstand, you're describing internet (or social media) culture circa 2016. Which is not to endorse it but to say it's a fact of life.

[DebbieTrucker]

My point is why are "fans" up in arms about a band's opinion or political leanings? They aren't judging us in any way as we are allowed to spout off whatever we want, sometimes in a very uneducated way. It seems like maybe the word fandom has become very hypocritical and one sided, almost like a "God" complex about the opinions of bands we like and how they should act for us. They are humans too and are exercising their freedom of speech right, through their only vehicle they know.....music. Until you are judged for every opinion you have political or otherwise its best to drop the hypocritical banter....just saying lol.

Unless I misunderstand, you're describing internet (or social media) culture circa 2016. Which is not to endorse it but to say it's a fact of life.

I'm saying "fans" should not throw rocks at glass houses when they have opinions for everything but still find error in bands who choose to express theirs through their profession. The superiority complex on having opinions and which opinions those bands should have is actually ridiculous. No one is telling them to not have opinions as fans so learn to respect that maybe just maybe the band you been there for "since day 1" may not think how you think. It doesn't affect the music if you are beyond tunnel vision and can separate art from personal beliefs. I for one hope DBTs make 10 more masterpieces like American Band. They have raised their game to an all time high in all aspects.

[Swamp]

How does incredibly sad = up in arms or throwing rocks at every body's houses.

[DebbieTrucker]

How does incredibly sad = up in arms or throwing rocks at every body's houses.

By "fans" judging a band's art and performance when there is zero backlash for those same said "fans" having their personal opinions on everything. That's how.

[Swamp]

more than a few parallels with skynyrd and their fan base not fully understanding what the band is/was all about.

swamp...give us some stories about ronnie pissing off the freebird faithful.


have trump voters/conservative types been mythologizing dbt for all these years?

"Convincing the redneck it ain't e z
Unless you put it up on the cmt"?
There's a doc on Ronnie coming out on cmt.
He only pissed me off when he was 2 drunk to sang.

[Cole Younger]

How does incredibly sad = up in arms or throwing rocks at every body's houses.

By "fans" judging a band's art and performance when there is zero backlash for those same said "fans" having their personal opinions on everything. That's how.

Ok I'll bite, why do you keep putting the word fans in quotation marks? Is my fan ship contingent in n agreeing with every single word from Patterson and Cooley's mouths and thinking everything they do and say is right? Of course it isn't. I've been a fan for about ten years now, I own every single one of their records and have more of their live shows rthat corded than I care to count. I own all of their DVDs. I have five Driveby Truckers t shirts. Their station gets played more than any of my other Pandora stations. I talk to people about them trying to turn them onto the band all the time. I'm not sure how many of their shows I've been to, and since my daughter was born I don't get to nearly as many as I used to or would like to get to, but I still make it to a few shows a year and will continue to do so. I play in a little three piece band here and cover several of their songs. So I feel like I can think of myself as a fan without feeling like I'm an imposter or something. If all that doesn't make my fan cred intact I don't know what I have to do.

I just don't feel like listening to angry political rhetoric at shows, I've always known they were politically liberal. I've never cared. I still don't care. I just don't want to listen to them fuss about how mad they are. That's not what I go to shows for and it creates an atmosphere at a show that I'm pretty sure would take most of the fun out of it for me. If others like it that's fine. But this idea that somehow you aren't a real fan if you don't agree with every word they say is nonsense. I'm not saying they shouldn't say what they want to say. Of course they should. Part of what I've always loved about this band is their honesty. They need to be true to themselves like they always have. And if this ends up being the new normal for them from now on (I don't think it will. I think things will settle down eventually) and its time for me to move on, no hard feelings.

As I told bravo, I'm not giving up on the band and I'm not mad at anybody. But for the time being, I'll just take a break from the shows. It's really not that big of a deal. I can feel that way and still be a fan. It's really not hard. Fans don't have to be in lock step with an artist.

[bravos66]

Welp, I have to say I'm humbled by the amount of discussion my message created and am very happy that folks have managed to pull it back from a no-win place to something more aligned with my original intent. And thank you all for helping me process what I heard on Saturday night, how I reacted to it and how I now feel about it a few days down the road.

And how do I feel about it? Guess I still would prefer the songs to speak for themselves - which they do majestically - but I do respect the fact that a more assertive (aggressive?) stance can be cathartic for both the band and most of the fan base.

And where does that leave me? Ironically, as I was reading today's posts on this thread a few minutes ago "Surrender Under Protest" surfaced from a random shuffle on the computer and I had to stop and think "damn, that's just a fine song". And BTW one whose politics I completely agree with.

So I hope to meet a number of you at HC '17 and then we'll see from there...

[Wolf]

How does incredibly sad = up in arms or throwing rocks at every body's houses.

By "fans" judging a band's art and performance when there is zero backlash for those same said "fans" having their personal opinions on everything. That's how.

i know the songs, the lyrics, the politics of the band and 99% of the "fan's" politics. i been a "fan" goin' on 12 years. i'll be goddamned if i travel a ways to a show and listen to a band member displeased with a judge rant about fuckin' the judge's wife. that ain't fuckin' art. i'm not alone on this. you'd be surprised of the number of folks that feel this way

[DebbieTrucker]

I never said anyone had to agree with every word. I'm saying it's hypocritical for "fans" to have negative thoughts about the band they love because of their beliefs as a band. Music is art and art is performance. Those same fans can run their mouths about every one of their opinions without any backlash? That's ludicrous and one sided. A band's music is music that's it. I consider the dialogue in between songs to go with that as either explaining the meaning of a song or updating the meaning of a song. That passion of words spoken at a show is what causes them to write passionate meaningful songs we love or respect or appreciate....whatever level you are at with them.