American Band- 9/30/16

[Clams]

The "keep your politics to yourself and play some fucking music!"'crowd are going to hate this record


Good

oh really? so you've heard the whole album, know all the lyrics? just shut the fuck up already

Seriously. The wolf was out of line there.

[Wolf]

nah

[Zip City]

That Facebook thread is amazing. How have SOOO many people been fans for SOOOO long an never listened to their lyrics? Incredible

[Humboldt]

The several times I heard SUP live it had a feel of something I dig but I couldn't put a finger on it. It just came to me. SUP fits right into Springsteen's Last to Die, Long Walk Home and Gypsy Biker off of Magic. Bruce was pissed at Bush/Cheney and our going into Iraq. "Your flag flying over the courthouse means certain things are set in stone, who we are, what we'll do and what we won't".

Musically SUP isn't like any single of the three, but it is like all three merged into one. I love it.

[jr29]

That Facebook thread is amazing. How have SOOO many people been fans for SOOOO long an never listened to their lyrics? Incredible

If I was guessing I would say some have just never paid attention to the political songs in the past. Others have probably overlooked it and some are probably just paying no attention to lyrics whatsoever.
You could put together a monstrous DBT playlist that has nothing to do with politics.
I don't go to the facebook page so I have no idea what is being posted.

[Cole Younger]

That Facebook thread is amazing. How have SOOO many people been fans for SOOOO long an never listened to their lyrics? Incredible

If I was guessing I would say some have just never paid attention to the political songs in the past. Others have probably overlooked it and some are probably just paying no attention to lyrics whatsoever.
You could put together a monstrous DBT playlist that has nothing to do with politics.
I don't go to the facebook page so I have no idea what is being posted.

I left both DBT Facebook groups I that I "liked" or was a member of mostly because of all the arguing about who didn't know anything about the band, who is or is not a "real fan" (the fact that adults even say things like that makes me laugh) etc. it just became tedious so I left. I have t been sorry for one minute about that.

As far as the outrage or whatever a person wants to call it over the band's political views and people being surprised by them, I don't think very many people are surprised that they are politically liberal. I mean it's never been a secret. Maybe a few new fans are surprised by it. I think, and I'm basing this on my own reaction and the reactions of people I know who are fans of the band and also more politically conservative, that most of what is being discussed about the press release is not about the band's politics but about the tone of the statements in that press release.

I don't know what kind of stuff they get from some of their fans about their politics. Maybe it's bad and that's why they said what they said but for myself and some others they didn't get the "fuck you if you don't like it. You can take a hike." Tone of the whole thing. Like I said, Patterson and Cooley may get stopped by people a lot who want to take them to task over their politics. I don't know. But I personally was a bit surprised and frankly put off by how needlessly (as far as I'm concerned anyway) confrontational the feel of that whole press release was.

I've been a me,ever here for a good while now. Been a Trucker fan a lot longer than that. They're my favorite band by miles. ive gone to their shows for years and bought all of their records. I've never been shy about my own political leanings or the fact that they mostly run counter to those of the band and most people here. My attitude has always been they have as much right to their opinions as I do to mine and if I was so immature as to let an artists politics keep me from enjoying their work, I would pretty much miss out on all of the great bands. That would be a needless shame. I've never cared when the band makes political statements in song or from the stage. It's their perogative and I knew what I was getting. I have occasionally disagreed pretty strongly with how some points were made because I just don't think anger is persuasive nor is it very enjoyable to be around.

I've never had any doubt where the guys stood. I don't think most fans do. But I didn't understand why Patterson needed to say, "we've never cared about being everybody's favorite band and if you need to leave that's fine." What does that mean? Does it just mean he's tired of taking flack from some fans about his politics? If so I get that. But a lot of people have taken it as, "hey if you don't agree with us we really don't want you anyway."

I don't know who Cooley is speaking of specifically when talks about wanting to make people mad. That's pretty hard for me to understand just from a everyday standpoint of not getting why anybody would go out of their way to try and have a conflict with anybody but also, why would you make such a point of flipping fans of yours the bird? Is he talking to all fans who don't agree with him and the band? Is talking about people who have heckled them in the past ( I find it hard to imagine this has happened much for the simple fact that it's pretty clear where they stand and if a person had a huge issue with it why would they buy tickets to a show?), I have no idea. But it seems unnecessary and like he's going to trouble to have a problem with part of the fan base.

As far as what he said about the gun culture, and to me this was the worst part, he's just unbelievably off base there. People who like guns like them because they are white supremacists? Seriously? I'm sorry but that is not only wrong, it's ridiculous. I'm from and live in the epicenter of the gun culture. Not only am I not a white supremacist, I don't know anybody who is. I don't even know of anybody who is. I can't believe he even said that.

Bottom line, I don't have a problem with them not being on the same page as me politically. I don't think most people care about that. I don't know what kind of experiences they've had in the past with backlash for their politics. My only issue is, a lot of us love the band and their politics does nothing to diminish that love. I respect them for speaking out for the things they believe in whether I agree or not. I just think an individual or a band can make political statements in no uncertain terms without being an asshole about it.

[jr29]

That Facebook thread is amazing. How have SOOO many people been fans for SOOOO long an never listened to their lyrics? Incredible

If I was guessing I would say some have just never paid attention to the political songs in the past. Others have probably overlooked it and some are probably just paying no attention to lyrics whatsoever.
You could put together a monstrous DBT playlist that has nothing to do with politics.
I don't go to the facebook page so I have no idea what is being posted.

I left both DBT Facebook groups I that I "liked" or was a member of mostly because of all the arguing about who didn't know anything about the band, who is or is not a "real fan" (the fact that adults even say things like that makes me laugh) etc. it just became tedious so I left. I have t been sorry for one minute about that.

As far as the outrage or whatever a person wants to call it over the band's political views and people being surprised by them, I don't think very many people are surprised that they are politically liberal. I mean it's never been a secret. Maybe a few new fans are surprised by it. I think, and I'm basing this on my own reaction and the reactions of people I know who are fans of the band and also more politically conservative, that most of what is being discussed about the press release is not about the band's politics but about the tone of the statements in that press release.

I don't know what kind of stuff they get from some of their fans about their politics. Maybe it's bad and that's why they said what they said but for myself and some others they didn't get the "fuck you if you don't like it. You can take a hike." Tone of the whole thing. Like I said, Patterson and Cooley may get stopped by people a lot who want to take them to task over their politics. I don't know. But I personally was a bit surprised and frankly put off by how needlessly (as far as I'm concerned anyway) confrontational the feel of that whole press release was.

I've been a me,ever here for a good while now. Been a Trucker fan a lot longer than that. They're my favorite band by miles. ive gone to their shows for years and bought all of their records. I've never been shy about my own political leanings or the fact that they mostly run counter to those of the band and most people here. My attitude has always been they have as much right to their opinions as I do to mine and if I was so immature as to let an artists politics keep me from enjoying their work, I would pretty much miss out on all of the great bands. That would be a needless shame. I've never cared when the band makes political statements in song or from the stage. It's their perogative and I knew what I was getting. I have occasionally disagreed pretty strongly with how some points were made because I just don't think anger is persuasive nor is it very enjoyable to be around.

I've never had any doubt where the guys stood. I don't think most fans do. But I didn't understand why Patterson needed to say, "we've never cared about being everybody's favorite band and if you need to leave that's fine." What does that mean? Does it just mean he's tired of taking flack from some fans about his politics? If so I get that. But a lot of people have taken it as, "hey if you don't agree with us we really don't want you anyway."

I don't know who Cooley is speaking of specifically when talks about wanting to make people mad. That's pretty hard for me to understand just from a everyday standpoint of not getting why anybody would go out of their way to try and have a conflict with anybody but also, why would you make such a point of flipping fans of yours the bird? Is he talking to all fans who don't agree with him and the band? Is talking about people who have heckled them in the past ( I find it hard to imagine this has happened much for the simple fact that it's pretty clear where they stand and if a person had a huge issue with it why would they buy tickets to a show?), I have no idea. But it seems unnecessary and like he's going to trouble to have a problem with part of the fan base.

As far as what he said about the gun culture, and to me this was the worst part, he's just unbelievably off base there. People who like guns like them because they are white supremacists? Seriously? I'm sorry but that is not only wrong, it's ridiculous. I'm from and live in the epicenter of the gun culture. Not only am I not a white supremacist, I don't know anybody who is. I don't even know of anybody who is. I can't believe he even said that.

Bottom line, I don't have a problem with them not being on the same page as me politically. I don't think most people care about that. I don't know what kind of experiences they've had in the past with backlash for their politics. My only issue is, a lot of us love the band and their politics does nothing to diminish that love. I respect them for speaking out for the things they believe in whether I agree or not. I just think an individual or a band can make political statements in no uncertain terms without being an asshole about it.

I'm probably more toward the center than you but I definitely have mixed feelings about the whole thing too.

[Smitty]

Patterson wrote this back during the great RNC debacle of 2012:

Frankly, we've always been proud of the diversity of our audience and are thankful for the many Republicans (Independents, Libertarians, Socialists and Democrats) that appreciate our band. Cooley and I say what we want, no matter who's there, and folks can like us or not. We are thankful for all of the ones who do (unless they're getting into a fight or being a rude asshole, in which case I'd rather you stay home). We are certainly a very political band but try hard to never grandstand about it. The characters in our songs have all kinds of beliefs, many that are different from our own and we always try to treat our characters and our audience with respect.

[Smitty]

I really think Cooley was referring to a specific subset of "gun culture" that's based in whatever fear that's being peddled by the gun lobby this week (whether it be a tyrannical govt, minorities, Muslims, etc) than the larger group of gun enthusiasts in it for sport, hunting or reasonably protecting their home. It is a more complex issue than that soundbyte suggests and based on what Cooley's said in the past, I'm pretty sure his views are more nuanced than that quote suggests. Rightly or wrongly, I'm guessing he didn't have the room for the dialogue that the topic deserves. It seems part of his purpose is to "piss off the assholes" and make it clear which side of the divide that he stands, and in that way I think it's successful.

[dime in the gutter]

[brett27295]

I left both DBT Facebook groups I that I "liked" or was a member of mostly because of all the arguing about who didn't know anything about the band, who is or is not a "real fan" (the fact that adults even say things like that makes me laugh) etc. it just became tedious so I left. I have t been sorry for one minute about that.

As far as the outrage or whatever a person wants to call it over the band's political views and people being surprised by them, I don't think very many people are surprised that they are politically liberal. I mean it's never been a secret. Maybe a few new fans are surprised by it. I think, and I'm basing this on my own reaction and the reactions of people I know who are fans of the band and also more politically conservative, that most of what is being discussed about the press release is not about the band's politics but about the tone of the statements in that press release.

I don't know what kind of stuff they get from some of their fans about their politics. Maybe it's bad and that's why they said what they said but for myself and some others they didn't get the "fuck you if you don't like it. You can take a hike." Tone of the whole thing. Like I said, Patterson and Cooley may get stopped by people a lot who want to take them to task over their politics. I don't know. But I personally was a bit surprised and frankly put off by how needlessly (as far as I'm concerned anyway) confrontational the feel of that whole press release was.

I've been a me,ever here for a good while now. Been a Trucker fan a lot longer than that. They're my favorite band by miles. ive gone to their shows for years and bought all of their records. I've never been shy about my own political leanings or the fact that they mostly run counter to those of the band and most people here. My attitude has always been they have as much right to their opinions as I do to mine and if I was so immature as to let an artists politics keep me from enjoying their work, I would pretty much miss out on all of the great bands. That would be a needless shame. I've never cared when the band makes political statements in song or from the stage. It's their perogative and I knew what I was getting. I have occasionally disagreed pretty strongly with how some points were made because I just don't think anger is persuasive nor is it very enjoyable to be around.

I've never had any doubt where the guys stood. I don't think most fans do. But I didn't understand why Patterson needed to say, "we've never cared about being everybody's favorite band and if you need to leave that's fine." What does that mean? Does it just mean he's tired of taking flack from some fans about his politics? If so I get that. But a lot of people have taken it as, "hey if you don't agree with us we really don't want you anyway."

I don't know who Cooley is speaking of specifically when talks about wanting to make people mad. That's pretty hard for me to understand just from a everyday standpoint of not getting why anybody would go out of their way to try and have a conflict with anybody but also, why would you make such a point of flipping fans of yours the bird? Is he talking to all fans who don't agree with him and the band? Is talking about people who have heckled them in the past ( I find it hard to imagine this has happened much for the simple fact that it's pretty clear where they stand and if a person had a huge issue with it why would they buy tickets to a show?), I have no idea. But it seems unnecessary and like he's going to trouble to have a problem with part of the fan base.

As far as what he said about the gun culture, and to me this was the worst part, he's just unbelievably off base there. People who like guns like them because they are white supremacists? Seriously? I'm sorry but that is not only wrong, it's ridiculous. I'm from and live in the epicenter of the gun culture. Not only am I not a white supremacist, I don't know anybody who is. I don't even know of anybody who is. I can't believe he even said that.

Bottom line, I don't have a problem with them not being on the same page as me politically. I don't think most people care about that. I don't know what kind of experiences they've had in the past with backlash for their politics. My only issue is, a lot of us love the band and their politics does nothing to diminish that love. I respect them for speaking out for the things they believe in whether I agree or not. I just think an individual or a band can make political statements in no uncertain terms without being an asshole about it.

I'm pretty moderate politically (more to the left socially, more to the right economically) and I thought the press release was one of best things I've ever read from a band. I think we've all known for years this is how the band feels and they've certainly dropped hints and outright statements in interviews, etc. But this is really the first time they've pretty much just laid it out on the line. I have a lot of respect for that even though I disagreed with one or two statements in the release. Well except for Cooley's "piss the assholes off", I thought that was perfect. The odd thing about that is why certain fans thought Cooley was referring to them? I thought that was rather interesting.

[dime in the gutter]

hell's fillin up with republicans.

1st record, 2nd song.

[Clams]

hell's fillin up with republicans.

1st record, 2nd song.

Dime is a fucking genius.

[Duke Silver]

from a year or two ago. can't remember what the context was. probably a mass shooting.

There was this heavy box I carried around with me for years. I would pick it up, put it in the truck, haul it to the next place and that’s where it stayed until it was time to move again. It was full of small caliber handgun and rifle cartridges, and shotgun shells of various size and shot patterns. It wouldn’t be considered a stockpile by today’s standards, and I didn’t have any use for it then, but I inherited it and the guns that went with it from my father. So I would toss it into the pile with the rest of the baggage I wasn’t ready to part with and pretend I was moving on.

My Dad owned a store. Similar to a convenience store, but located in the rural community where we lived, so it still functioned like a traditional country store, complete with a set of regulars that stopped by almost every day to chat. And without cable tv (it’s still not available there), 24/7 news, and the internet still over 20 years away, country stores and good ole boys had a wireless bullshit delivery system nonetheless. And good old boys never talk long without talking about guns.

I didn’t think much about it at the time, but every now and then my Dad would come home convinced something was about to happen with regard to guns and ammo that required “stocking up.” There were going to be limits on the number of boxes you could buy. The price was going to reach unaffordable levels. “They” were going to make it so that you couldn’t even buy guns any more or be able to use the ones you had. And this information was never reported in the news because “they” don’t want you to know it. That’s how that heavy assed box came to be, and would eventually come to me.

One night before I inherited all those bullets, I got shot at. They wouldn’t have done me any good since I was trespassing. I’m pretty sure firing shots at the owner of the property you’re trespassing on makes it worse. Anyway I was with a couple of friends and we were rolling this guys yard. His house was on a hill at the end of a long driveway with woods in between. We heard the door open and the lights came on and we ran through the woods toward the road. He fired 2 maybe 3 shots and I could hear the bullets going through the trees alongside us. I don’t know if he was actually trying to hit us,and I’m not even sure if he could see us, but he didn’t just fire in the air either. It had to be obvious we were running away even if it wasn’t obvious we were just kids pulling a prank.

On another evening I was home with my parents and some of my friends thought it would be funny to steal the hubcaps off my car. We heard a noise and my Dad could see someone moving around outside. He got his gun, threw open the door and yelled “I’ll blow your head off you son of a bitch”. One of my friends stood up from behind the car with his hands up saying “don’t shoot Mr Cooley it’s me”. My Dad was red and shaking all over from fear and embarrassment. He’d almost shot a kid pulling a prank.

The inability to defend ones home or even the thought of that level of helplessness brings to mind images that are frightening for anyone, and my father and the man who shot at me belonged to a class and generation of men that were especially motivated that very fear. Robbing a man of the ability to defend his home was the last degrading thing the world could do to him. A world that many of the men of my dad’s generation and class saw as having it in for them in the first place. And that was enough to make anything less than an armed response, a weak response.

I never told my Dad I got shot at pulling a prank, and the man who did it outlived him.

I got rid of that box of ammo. If I need to do some shooting, I can buy more. And there was never a time when I couldn’t.

– Cooley

[hyyal]

Y'know....having been a DBT fan for 14-15 years now, I am quite aware of their political leanings. I may or may not agree with them, but I was aware of them. I have never let politics interfere with enjoying ANY band/artist output. If I like an artist or band, then I like them, end of story.

The FB pages are a mess, I don't understand how you can be a "fan" and then, because of the political-ness of an album (that hasn't been released yet), jump ship and say that they're not fans anymore. I just don't get it.

If anyone is seriously not a fan anymore, do me a favor.....send me your LPs, tapes, CDs, posters etc.... I'll put them to good use.

[Beebs]

The "keep your politics to yourself and play some fucking music!"'crowd are going to hate this record


Good

I'm not among this crowd. In fact, I think DBT 1) have proven over time that they are one of the few bands who can deal with social issues in a tasteful, tactful, and artful way that doesn't alienate anyone, and 2) are at least, to some degree, not merely preaching the the choir (one of my major criticisms when ivory tower 'indie' bands with 100% liberal fanbases morally postulate and become sjw caricatures), as we've all stood beside fratboys at the Rock Show hollering for (and grossly misunderstanding) "The Southern Thing." I think if a few good ol' boys get enlightened, all the better. If the Confederate flag-wavers get off the bus and leave a little room for less aggro, more forward thinking fans, all the better again.

But my concern isn't the politics, it's the (hinted at) specificity. I don't want to hear DBT singing about Trump any more than I want to hear Phil Ochs singing about Nixon. That practice of 'naming names,' as it were, can really date a record IMO. (But then again, there's "Ohio," and "By The Time I Get To Arizona," and "Sunday Bloody Sunday," and probably dozens of other exceptions that prove the rule).

Like a lot of folks here (but--again--not all), I'm probably simpatico with 85-95% of DBT's political ideology (as represented in song, that is; can't speak for them personally). That doesn't mean I need to hear a song about white supremacist elements in the NRA more than coupla times.

Anyway, these are small concerns voiced to a nerdy demographic, and I wouldn't even voice them to a casual fan. I only mention it here because, well, we tend to nerd out here, and speculate, and analyze, and debate. To a casual fan, I'D SAY "HOLY SHIT DUDE, NEW TRUCKERS ALBUM, SEPTEMBER 30TH, YALL, LET'S DO THIS!"

I'm confused between wanting artist to say something profound and needing a break from the socio-politico cesspool that is America today. While I do feel like I'm skirting my responsibility to be an aware and informed participant, my day to day sanity needs more Sweet Annette and less Black Lives Matter.

If I wanna get (more) depressed I'll go watch the news. This is probably why I'm into a lot of Stoner Metal and Psych Rock these days.

[Gaetzi]

Now and always... "Let there be rock"

Pretty sure I can speak for everyone on this board when I say my world is a better place with the Drive by Truckers in it.

[Markalanbishop]

Heard SUP on Sirius/XM this afternoon. Sounded great blasting wide open!

[Clams]

Been wondering about the chorus of SUP (really great acronym btw), especially the "compelled but not defeated" line. It seems like the protagonist (which may or may not be Cooley) is resigned to the fact even though the flag came down it will still be business as usual, or in other words racism isn't going anywhere, or in other words [they] ain't never gonna change. Also, most of the song sounds like the singer is a third party observer, but the chorus sounds like it comes from a stakeholder, though I can't tell from which side. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any thoughts?

[Humboldt]

Heard SUP on Sirius/XM this afternoon. Sounded great blasting wide open!

What station? Outlaw Country?

[dime in the gutter]

Been wondering about the chorus of SUP (really great acronym btw), especially the "compelled but not defeated" line. It seems like the protagonist (which may or may not be Cooley) is resigned to the fact even though the flag came down it will still be business as usual, or in other words racism isn't going anywhere, or in other words [they] ain't never gonna change. Also, most of the song sounds like the singer is a third party observer, but the chorus sounds like it comes from a stakeholder, though I can't tell from which side. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any thoughts?

to my middle age white southern working class eyes and ears. no evangelical in my background. straight up catholic.

this is cooley talking. not a character or composite sketch. fairly rare for dbt.

he is calling bullshit on those who claim that tradition and legacy are the real reasons for flying the rebel flag. racism is taught. and for the purposes of this song...it has been taught for 6 generations by hijacking honorable words for it's explanation and deplorable defense of.

the exception to cooley speaking is the chorus...which has a "lost cause" vibe to it......a battle cry for those not wanting to give up on the "tradition" of the flag.

the south will rise again type slogan.

or some shit like that.

[Clams]

Btw gotta love breaking down a new cooley song.

[Zip City]

Been wondering about the chorus of SUP (really great acronym btw), especially the "compelled but not defeated" line. It seems like the protagonist (which may or may not be Cooley) is resigned to the fact even though the flag came down it will still be business as usual, or in other words racism isn't going anywhere, or in other words [they] ain't never gonna change. Also, most of the song sounds like the singer is a third party observer, but the chorus sounds like it comes from a stakeholder, though I can't tell from which side. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any thoughts?

to my middle age white southern working class eyes and ears. no evangelical in my background. straight up catholic.

this is cooley talking. not a character or composite sketch. fairly rare for dbt.

he is calling bullshit on those who claim that tradition and legacy are the real reasons for flying the rebel flag. racism is taught. and for the purposes of this song...it has been taught for 6 generations by hijacking honorable words for it's explanation and deplorable defense of.

the exception to cooley speaking is the chorus...which has a "lost cause" vibe to it......a battle cry for those not wanting to give up on the "tradition" of the flag.

the south will rise again type slogan.

or some shit like that.

dime is a fuckin' genius

[Duke Silver]

I don't know who's handling the presale this time, but Kung-Fu handled the recent Felice Brothers release, and it couldn't have been smoother. Album and t-shirt arrived a day early, in perfect condition, and I just got an email with the download code (which works). Just FYI if the powers that be are reading this.

[bovine knievel]

Been wondering about the chorus of SUP (really great acronym btw), especially the "compelled but not defeated" line. It seems like the protagonist (which may or may not be Cooley) is resigned to the fact even though the flag came down it will still be business as usual, or in other words racism isn't going anywhere, or in other words [they] ain't never gonna change. Also, most of the song sounds like the singer is a third party observer, but the chorus sounds like it comes from a stakeholder, though I can't tell from which side. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any thoughts?

to my middle age white southern working class eyes and ears. no evangelical in my background. straight up catholic.

this is cooley talking. not a character or composite sketch. fairly rare for dbt.

he is calling bullshit on those who claim that tradition and legacy are the real reasons for flying the rebel flag. racism is taught. and for the purposes of this song...it has been taught for 6 generations by hijacking honorable words for it's explanation and deplorable defense of.

the exception to cooley speaking is the chorus...which has a "lost cause" vibe to it......a battle cry for those not wanting to give up on the "tradition" of the flag.

the south will rise again type slogan.

or some shit like that.

dime is a fuckin' genius

pure genius

[ramonz]

Compelled but not defeated
Surrender under protest if you must
Compelled but not defeated

Obviously I could be dead wrong, but I'm not sure Cooley is screaming FUCK YOU to the confederate-flag-waving-it's-"tradition" people. He's certainly saying all that is full of shit, but I believe there's a slight "yeah, yeah, yeah - just give that shit up, it's goddamn time. It's hurtful to too many people and for many it's code for something pretty nasty."

Surrender under protest if you must (maybe there's some pride in that?), but fucking give it up. It's time. The "cause" has been hijacked, and really has been forever. And while your great, great, great grandfather (Jesus!) may have lost the Civil War, don't look at doing the right thing NOW as a defeat. It's not like losing the war twice, numbskull. Either you feel compelled to give that shit up, or society is compelling you to do it.......WHATEVER the reason, giving up that bullshit is the point. As Cooley says in TSTAHE, "It's just finding redemption, I guess."

I don't know - just seems it's easier to influence someone struggling with this to do the right thing (that's the point off the song, right?) than to just say fuck off racist asshole. I don't think he's doing that.

[beantownbubba]

Been wondering about the chorus of SUP (really great acronym btw), especially the "compelled but not defeated" line. It seems like the protagonist (which may or may not be Cooley) is resigned to the fact even though the flag came down it will still be business as usual, or in other words racism isn't going anywhere, or in other words [they] ain't never gonna change. Also, most of the song sounds like the singer is a third party observer, but the chorus sounds like it comes from a stakeholder, though I can't tell from which side. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any thoughts?

I don't know why, but I was under the impression that both "compelled but not defeated" and "surrender under protest" were either direct quotes or maybe echoes of Southern descriptions of "the recent unpleasantness" (i.e. the Civil War). IOW it's taking phraseology used to mask what actually happened back in the 1860's and turning it around and saying "Really? You keep hiding behind euphemisms, but you're basically full of shit. Let's move on." Based on the other responses, it appears that those 2 phrases are not common parlance in the South but I think the general idea still holds: You may think you were not defeated, you may think you've been acting "under protest" since 1865, but we lost the war and we've been hiding from reality w/ some really bad consequences ever since. Time to throw away the masks and confront reality.

NB: Just saw Ramonz's post and I basically agree w/ that. To the extent that what I wrote above is not exactly in sync w/ his comments he's probably more right than me, but we're on the same track.

[Markalanbishop]

^^^Is Cooley a fucking genius or what?

[dime in the gutter]

I don't know why, but I was under the impression that both "compelled but not defeated" and "surrender under protest" were either direct quotes or maybe echoes of Southern descriptions of "the recent unpleasantness" (i.e. the Civil War). IOW it's taking phraseology used to mask what actually happened back in the 1860's and turning it around and saying "Really? You keep hiding behind euphemisms, but you're basically full of shit. Let's move on." Based on the other responses, it appears that those 2 phrases are not common parlance in the South but I think the general idea still holds: You may think you were not defeated, you may think you've been acting "under protest" since 1865, but we lost the war and we've been hiding from reality w/ some really bad consequences ever since. Time to throw away the masks and confront reality.

NB: Just saw Ramonz's post and I basically agree w/ that. To the extent that what I wrote above is not exactly in sync w/ his comments he's probably more right than me, but we're on the same track.

i assume the term lost cause is widely known. smart fuckers on here.

bad definition to follow.

"the lost cause"-romatization of the antebellum and civil war years in the south. beautiful epic honorable reasonings about a mighty, mighty struggle against an undefeatable foe. tragic hope tied to a "lost cause" and the delusional glorification and defiance about the eventual and imminent outcome. hanging on to something that never really existed type awareness. duality and all that shit.

i hear that in the chorus. which i think is what you and ramonz are getting at.

the band did "lost cause" better than anybody.

or some shit like that.

too fine a point?

[dime in the gutter]

pure genius

laughable. just a malcontent redneck with a buzz.