Songs you wanna see brought back

[Clams]

In regards to politics in DBT's songs....they have been so prevalent in some form or fashion throughout the band's history. Given your post above, one might assume that you dislike Puttin' People on the Moon. Or the political undertones involved in the story behind Sinkhole (and thus The Accountant). Or even the more contemporary Made Up English Oceans. How about the story and the history behind Uncle Frank?

Not that it matters to the discussion, but Sinkhole is about a farmer who borrowed money and didn't pay it back, and a banker who foreclosed on the collateral (unwisely, as it were). Any political undertones in that song are being applied by the listener, not the lyrics.

I think the last line of Sinkhole ("Look the preacher in the eye") removes any doubt as to where the singer stands vis a vis the farmer vs the banker. Not saying it's necessarily political, but we all know who/what the bankers are.

[Cole Younger]

I think it's hard to argue that Patterson's song writing has gotten too political for it not to hurt the band in some form or fashion. He's obviously free to write what the hell he wants to write, but they're going to sell less tickets if they don't get off this soap box and stick to doing what they do best.

I don't go to a Truckers show to hear songs about the current political or racial climate. I don't mind at all if Patterson wants to give even more than his two cents in between songs, but for the love of Christ, don't write a cheesy song about the Black Lives Matter movement or anything of that nature. He's too good of a songwriter for that. Stick to the dark shit about holding grudges, being fucked over, exacting revenge, avoiding the law, violence, murder, rape, incest, addiction, depression, broken families, and everything else that most bands won't touch. That's what really tells a powerful story.

Any jack off can stand in front of a Black Lives Matter sign and insert themselves into that conversation. Anyone can write a politically oriented song that sounds very out of place in their respective catalogue. Patterson has too much talent for that. Don't waste precious spots in your set for numerous crappy songs just to try to be politically correct. I think we all knew him moving to Portland wasn't going to be a positive change for people who like old school, hard rocking, hard living DBT. I'm genuinely glad for him if he and his family are happy and enjoying life. But it sucks that it seems like it's going to push him further and further in a different direction artistically.

For the record, I agree with many of Patterson's political stances. And I'm not someone to shy away from talking about them. But it can definitely be taken too far. It's especially surprising to me that everyone in the band would agree to have a sign associating them with a VERY confused and often times misguided movement like the Black Lives Matter campaign. There are some vocal "leaders" behind that charge that are in it for the wrong reasons. I don't think that's really what DBT ever has been, and I sure hope it's not what they want to become.

Wow. Man even if I don't agree with 100% of that its refreshing in a way. The guys have always been an at least somewhat political band. I say somewhat because while it has always been there it never detracted from the music or made the music an afterthought. I can think of a few bands who seem to talk about politics and get to a few songs if they can squeeze them in. I'm exaggerating but it almost seems that bad for a few bands.

I don't care where Patterson lives other than always having loved it that he lived here in Georgia. But he needs to do what's best for him and his family.

I don't agree with his politics for the most part but that has never hindered my ability to enjoy his and the band's music. It's never been a problem for me. But lately it seems to have kicked into high gear. I don't mean the high percentage of political songs among the new ones. I pretty much love all of those songs. I'm talking about the pointedness of some of the commentary. Maybe that's not even new but for some reason I notice it more lately and just being perfectly honest, I'm turned off by it. Stating an opinion different from mine doesn't bother me nor does stating the opinion that other people are wrong who might hold the same opinion as me. No big deal. What I'm bothered by is the characterization of those who don't share the political opinions of the band as bad people. Referring to them as or an individual as a "piece of shit" based on politics. I really don't like this sort of thing. Like I said, it may not be new, I may just be noticing it more. But I don't like it. I have a very good grasp of just how much my not liking it matters. But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down. as if there is only room for one specific type of person in the fan base. It has never been that way as far as I knew.

This has been in the back of my mind and I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was bothering me until I read this. It's gotten bad enough that I have considered making Tallahassee my last show. If not for good then definitely for a long time.

[Smitty]

Cole, I'm not aware of the commentary you're referring to. The only "piece of shit" I've ever heard tossed was about racists in "Ronnie and Neil".
I think y'all might be projecting what some of us fans have said onto DBT. I think the discussion about politics in music has blown this out of proportion and I'll take part of the blame in that, although I believe everything I've said has been in reaction to someone else's comment or observations.

There's room for everybody at a DBT show and I don't think there's much rhetoric at all. For the most part if you blink you'll miss it. The most overtly political song of the new material is "What it Means" and honestly it doesn't seem that controversial to me; it's no "PPOTM" in that regard. The "BLM" sign just sits there; you're not beat over the head with anything.

FWIW, Patterson nor anybody associated with the band has ever said anything about trimming the audience down to my knowledge, but I guess if you choose not to attend then you're missing out.

[John A Arkansawyer]

What I'm bothered by is the characterization of those who don't share the political opinions of the band as bad people. Referring to them as or an individual as a "piece of shit" based on politics. I really don't like this sort of thing.

I haven't heard that, but maybe that's because it's not aimed at me. I'll give it some thought.

I am having a similar issue with current controversy in the speculative fiction community. I won't bore you with the details, but let me say that the people whose side I'm closest to being on are behaving about as badly as the people whose side I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. There are a couple of exceptionally bad actors on that side who probably are deserving of being called a piece of shit. I'm thinking of a guy who referred to a biracial writer as a "half-savage" and thinks women shouldn't have the vote. But most of the people on that side are decent enough people with whom I disagree.

But the people on my side are not behaving well, either. To many of them, the people who oppose them are just monsters. This is as true (to them) of the few genuinely bad actors, the people who are primarily interested in advancing their careers by hitching themselves to those people, and the people who just have some common points of view with them. They verbally dogpile them, which I really dislike, and they seem to think they have the One True Way. I've left an on-line hangout of long standing because I'm enough out of step with them on an issue where we're in agreement on most of the basics.

And just today, where I'm hanging out with folks in that community, someone suggested in pretty clear terms that some people on that other side should maybe just include themselves out. To their credit, folks mostly rejected that, just like I reject the idea the DBT fan base needs "pruning".

I had a conversation with an actual racist asshole today. Not someone who's got some residual stuff going on--like, who doesn't?--but someone who kept turning the conversation back to racist stereotypes in a very creepy way. I mean, I'd never met him before. I assume he's an actual racist. I guess I could be wrong but I don't think so. I was cordial though I left relatively quickly, and before I did, I made sure I'd answered his questions about a part of the country he's traveling to which he'd asked me about. And I'm hoping not to run into him again.

I guess what I'm saying there is that things are getting weird and unpleasant all around lately, and it doesn't show any signs of getting easier. I would have dug this when I was young and unempathetic and knew everything. Right now, though, it sucks, even if I think I see better days in the distance.

Rambling. I'm rambling. Long day and sleep is needed. I do know I don't think you need trimmed from the fan base. If you need a break, take it. Little Rock is nice. Come to the Holiday Hangout. But don't be a stranger and do come back.

[John A Arkansawyer]

In case it's not clear, I think we're better with you than without you, for a lot of different values of "you", including everyone in this thread. Whether you are better off otherwise is not for me to say.

[brett27295]

But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down. as if there is only room for one specific type of person in the fan base. It has never been that way as far as I knew.

Spend some time on some of the Facebook DBT groups, read some of the vile, unveiled racist, and sexist comments from so-called fans and then tell me that. In a recent thread one of our well-known female 3dd'ers was told to go kill herself for expressing feminist thoughts. Still don't think it needs to be trimmed down?

Those are the people I'm talking about. There's plenty of room at DBT shows for people from all walks of life regardless of your politics, sex, sexual orientation, etc. I'm specifically referring to a certain very small segment of the DBT fanbase that I wouldn't miss.

[ramonz]

In case it's not clear, I think we're better with you than without you, for a lot of different values of "you", including everyone in this thread.

Amen. Hang tight Cole. So much in my head about this winding trail - hopefully will have some time this weekend for the beers to coax out my thoughts.

[Iowan]

A random aside, but as much as Sinkhole rocks, being too sympathetic for the farmer bugs me a little, and I say this is as a farmer.

For one, it's a 5th generation farm. That thing is paid off. The protagonist (almost certainly) inherited it, and has no money of his own in it, or at least didn't at one point in time. Yet he's borrowed so much against it that he's lost his ass and the farm in the process. And the banker deserves to die because the farmer can't manage his business for shit? That's some real bullshit.

For the record, I don't think that's the message Patterson is trying to send. He's simply telling the farmer's side of the story. Therefore, I don't read much into Sinkhole politically. I just don't see a political message there.

[Cubfan06]

A random aside, but as much as Sinkhole rocks, being too sympathetic for the farmer bugs me a little, and I say this is as a farmer.

For one, it's a 5th generation farm. That thing is paid off. The protagonist (almost certainly) inherited it, and has no money of his own in it, or at least didn't at one point in time. Yet he's borrowed so much against it that he's lost his ass and the farm in the process. And the banker deserves to die because the farmer can't manage his business for shit? That's some real bullshit.

For the record, I don't think that's the message Patterson is trying to send. He's simply telling the farmer's side of the story. Therefore, I don't read much into Sinkhole politically. I just don't see a political message there.

You would be the more versed on this topic clearly. I know that it based upon the movie The Accountant which I own. I completely defer to you on this Iowan.
I have always read (or mis-read) an underlying theme about the rise of Factory Farms and the tax breaks that they have received vs. the family farms who have not received the same benefits and the local governments that have not done enough to help support the family farm. I was born in a once much smaller town of Crystal Lake, Illinois in McHenry County. It was a community built upon two facets. Mob money for vacation houses on the lake including Al Capone and other Chicago mobsters and also many generations of family farmers. The agriculture in our area was so incredibly vast, but family farms in the area are have been declining rapidly since the rise of Factory Farms in the 80's. I attended a lot of meetings for a community project which I was presenting at our local government building for the McHenry County Agriculture board meeting, in which I heard many of our local farms echoed the same issues. (And Illinois as a state is so corrupt as shit) It is my understanding that the Factory Farms are huge business and are given many tax breaks that can virtually help to cripple the generations of family farms. That might be an overblown story Iowan, but that is what Farm Aid has stood for years. Getting the necessary support and assistance to Family Farms, with the rise of Factory Farms. To loosely connect the dots from a timeline perspective Drive By Truckers played Farm Aid in 2002 before Decoration Day came out and Sinkhole was released. I have always felt that the song was loosely an allegory for that issue. And although The Accountant has some dark comical elements to it, I always felt that it was allegorical as well. And the "trickle down, trickle down" aspect of the live performance of the song seems to support that to me.
I might not be correct. But that has always been interpretation and timeline.

[Iowan]

A random aside, but as much as Sinkhole rocks, being too sympathetic for the farmer bugs me a little, and I say this is as a farmer.

For one, it's a 5th generation farm. That thing is paid off. The protagonist (almost certainly) inherited it, and has no money of his own in it, or at least didn't at one point in time. Yet he's borrowed so much against it that he's lost his ass and the farm in the process. And the banker deserves to die because the farmer can't manage his business for shit? That's some real bullshit.

For the record, I don't think that's the message Patterson is trying to send. He's simply telling the farmer's side of the story. Therefore, I don't read much into Sinkhole politically. I just don't see a political message there.

You would be the more versed on this topic clearly. I know that it based upon the movie The Accountant which I own. I completely defer to you on this Iowan.
I have always read (or mis-read) an underlying theme about the rise of Factory Farms and the tax breaks that they have received vs. the family farms who have not received the same benefits and the local governments that have not done enough to help support the family farm. I was born in a once much smaller town of Crystal Lake, Illinois in McHenry County. It was a community built upon two facets. Mob money for vacation houses on the lake including Al Capone and other Chicago mobsters and also many generations of family farmers. The agriculture in our area was so incredibly vast, but family farms in the area are have been declining rapidly since the rise of Factory Farms in the 80's. I attended a lot of meetings for a community project which I was presenting at our local government building for the McHenry County Agriculture board meeting, in which I heard many of our local farms echoed the same issues. (And Illinois as a state is so corrupt as shit) It is my understanding that the Factory Farms are huge business and are given many tax breaks that can virtually help to cripple the generations of family farms. That might be an overblown story Iowan, but that is what Farm Aid has stood for years. Getting the necessary support and assistance to Family Farms, with the rise of Factory Farms. To loosely connect the dots from a timeline perspective Drive By Truckers played Farm Aid in 2002 before Decoration Day came out and Sinkhole was released. I have always felt that the song was loosely an allegory for that issue. And although The Accountant has some dark comical elements to it, I always felt that it was allegorical as well. And the "trickle down, trickle down" aspect of the live performance of the song seems to support that to me.
I might not be correct. But that has always been interpretation and timeline.

I hate the term Factory Farm. It's really ambiguous and gets thrown around a lot with people really understanding what they mean by it (I assume this is what gun enthusiasts feel when someone talks about "assault weapons). Most agriculture in Iowa is still in family owned and run businesses. Pretty much everyone is using large machinery these days, and to be profitable (farming is a business, not a cute lifestyle) you have to hit a certain size, or have a lot of equity (IE you own all your shit).

Many smaller farms in our ceased to be simply because most of the baby boomers left the area believing they had no economic opportunities. What had been a 3rd generation farm (the area where I was born was only settled in the 1890's) now had no one left to operate it, and the old farmer needed someone to rent the land and operate it, so he could make a living in retirement as well. With none of his kids left, he had to rent to another farmer. This is how farms grew (and continue to grow) in our area. More people opted out than were squeezed out. One guy running a couple hundred acres by himself wasn't getting hosed by the government, but he wasn't able to make the same profit as a larger operator because he couldn't run as many acres without adding machinery and labor costs, and was disadvantaged marketing his grain without investing in grain storage. The guys who grew were those who were willing to go out on a limb and borrow money to grow their business. A lot of guys didn't want to take that kind of risk and sold out, found a good job in town, and rented their land out to those who did. Some of the guys who work for us used to farm on their own, or run a few acres and use their job here to supplement their farming operation. They find they enjoy the steady paycheck and lack of personal risk that comes with working for a larger farm, plus it gives them the financial freedom and ability to operate their side operation on their own terms and without fear of losing their ass.

Simply put, there are larger scale ag operations in our area (we're one) but they're all family run with many family members participating in the business. My dad and uncle took over my grandpa's land and machinery and today I'm involved full time, as is my dad's cousin, and we rent all the land that my grandparents, aunt, and 2 uncles own in the area as well rent land from other families where the scenario I described above took place. But one might come to our shop, see all of our grain bins, big John Deere equipment and think "factory farm", but it's absolutely a family business to the core. We don't really have any special tax breaks either. Ag-based tax breaks in Iowa are available to operators of any size.

This idea of some company with an office in a Chicago/Minneapolis/Des Moines skyscraper paying mercenaries to operate 50,000 acres of ground and run 100 livestock buildings where they torture animals is simply a fiction here. There are some nation-wide livestock companies who have barns around northern Iowa, but almost all of the grain operations are run by a family, or consist of several families pooling their resources to increase marketing opportunity and cut costs.

[Iowan]

Random aside, but everyone who settled my hometown (Meyer, Iowa) came from Germany via McHenry County, Illinois. They all stopped there for a few years, but I think they found it overcrowded/lacking opportunity and kept moving west. I know my great-grandma's people stopped there on their way inland from the boat.

[Cubfan06]

A random aside, but as much as Sinkhole rocks, being too sympathetic for the farmer bugs me a little, and I say this is as a farmer.

For one, it's a 5th generation farm. That thing is paid off. The protagonist (almost certainly) inherited it, and has no money of his own in it, or at least didn't at one point in time. Yet he's borrowed so much against it that he's lost his ass and the farm in the process. And the banker deserves to die because the farmer can't manage his business for shit? That's some real bullshit.

For the record, I don't think that's the message Patterson is trying to send. He's simply telling the farmer's side of the story. Therefore, I don't read much into Sinkhole politically. I just don't see a political message there.

You would be the more versed on this topic clearly. I know that it based upon the movie The Accountant which I own. I completely defer to you on this Iowan.
I have always read (or mis-read) an underlying theme about the rise of Factory Farms and the tax breaks that they have received vs. the family farms who have not received the same benefits and the local governments that have not done enough to help support the family farm. I was born in a once much smaller town of Crystal Lake, Illinois in McHenry County. It was a community built upon two facets. Mob money for vacation houses on the lake including Al Capone and other Chicago mobsters and also many generations of family farmers. The agriculture in our area was so incredibly vast, but family farms in the area are have been declining rapidly since the rise of Factory Farms in the 80's. I attended a lot of meetings for a community project which I was presenting at our local government building for the McHenry County Agriculture board meeting, in which I heard many of our local farms echoed the same issues. (And Illinois as a state is so corrupt as shit) It is my understanding that the Factory Farms are huge business and are given many tax breaks that can virtually help to cripple the generations of family farms. That might be an overblown story Iowan, but that is what Farm Aid has stood for years. Getting the necessary support and assistance to Family Farms, with the rise of Factory Farms. To loosely connect the dots from a timeline perspective Drive By Truckers played Farm Aid in 2002 before Decoration Day came out and Sinkhole was released. I have always felt that the song was loosely an allegory for that issue. And although The Accountant has some dark comical elements to it, I always felt that it was allegorical as well. And the "trickle down, trickle down" aspect of the live performance of the song seems to support that to me.
I might not be correct. But that has always been interpretation and timeline.

I hate the term Factory Farm. It's really ambiguous and gets thrown around a lot with people really understanding what they mean by it (I assume this is what gun enthusiasts feel when someone talks about "assault weapons). Most agriculture in Iowa is still in family owned and run businesses. Pretty much everyone is using large machinery these days, and to be profitable (farming is a business, not a cute lifestyle) you have to hit a certain size, or have a lot of equity (IE you own all your shit).

Many smaller farms in our ceased to be simply because most of the baby boomers left the area believing they had no economic opportunities. What had been a 3rd generation farm (the area where I was born was only settled in the 1890's) now had no one left to operate it, and the old farmer needed someone to rent the land and operate it, so he could make a living in retirement as well. With none of his kids left, he had to rent to another farmer. This is how farms grew (and continue to grow) in our area. More people opted out than were squeezed out. One guy running a couple hundred acres by himself wasn't getting hosed by the government, but he wasn't able to make the same profit as a larger operator because he couldn't run as many acres without adding machinery and labor costs, and was disadvantaged marketing his grain without investing in grain storage. The guys who grew were those who were willing to go out on a limb and borrow money to grow their business. A lot of guys didn't want to take that kind of risk and sold out, found a good job in town, and rented their land out to those who did. Some of the guys who work for us used to farm on their own, or run a few acres and use their job here to supplement their farming operation. They find they enjoy the steady paycheck and lack of personal risk that comes with working for a larger farm, plus it gives them the financial freedom and ability to operate their side operation on their own terms and without fear of losing their ass.

Simply put, there are larger scale ag operations in our area (we're one) but they're all family run with many family members participating in the business. My dad and uncle took over my grandpa's land and machinery and today I'm involved full time, as is my dad's cousin, and we rent all the land that my grandparents, aunt, and 2 uncles own in the area as well rent land from other families where the scenario I described above took place. But one might come to our shop, see all of our grain bins, big John Deere equipment and think "factory farm", but it's absolutely a family business to the core. We don't really have any special tax breaks either. Ag-based tax breaks in Iowa are available to operators of any size.

This idea of some company with an office in a Chicago/Minneapolis/Des Moines skyscraper paying mercenaries to operate 50,000 acres of ground and run 100 livestock buildings where they torture animals is simply a fiction here. There are some nation-wide livestock companies who have barns around northern Iowa, but almost all of the grain operations are run by a family, or consist of several families pooling their resources to increase marketing opportunity and cut costs.

I bow to you on this topic, but I believe that it is a "social cause" which people have stumped for. Whether informed or less informed on the issue.
How about ADM (Archers Daniel Midland) and Cargill ?

[Iowan]

You would be the more versed on this topic clearly. I know that it based upon the movie The Accountant which I own. I completely defer to you on this Iowan.
I have always read (or mis-read) an underlying theme about the rise of Factory Farms and the tax breaks that they have received vs. the family farms who have not received the same benefits and the local governments that have not done enough to help support the family farm. I was born in a once much smaller town of Crystal Lake, Illinois in McHenry County. It was a community built upon two facets. Mob money for vacation houses on the lake including Al Capone and other Chicago mobsters and also many generations of family farmers. The agriculture in our area was so incredibly vast, but family farms in the area are have been declining rapidly since the rise of Factory Farms in the 80's. I attended a lot of meetings for a community project which I was presenting at our local government building for the McHenry County Agriculture board meeting, in which I heard many of our local farms echoed the same issues. (And Illinois as a state is so corrupt as shit) It is my understanding that the Factory Farms are huge business and are given many tax breaks that can virtually help to cripple the generations of family farms. That might be an overblown story Iowan, but that is what Farm Aid has stood for years. Getting the necessary support and assistance to Family Farms, with the rise of Factory Farms. To loosely connect the dots from a timeline perspective Drive By Truckers played Farm Aid in 2002 before Decoration Day came out and Sinkhole was released. I have always felt that the song was loosely an allegory for that issue. And although The Accountant has some dark comical elements to it, I always felt that it was allegorical as well. And the "trickle down, trickle down" aspect of the live performance of the song seems to support that to me.
I might not be correct. But that has always been interpretation and timeline.

I hate the term Factory Farm. It's really ambiguous and gets thrown around a lot with people really understanding what they mean by it (I assume this is what gun enthusiasts feel when someone talks about "assault weapons). Most agriculture in Iowa is still in family owned and run businesses. Pretty much everyone is using large machinery these days, and to be profitable (farming is a business, not a cute lifestyle) you have to hit a certain size, or have a lot of equity (IE you own all your shit).

Many smaller farms in our ceased to be simply because most of the baby boomers left the area believing they had no economic opportunities. What had been a 3rd generation farm (the area where I was born was only settled in the 1890's) now had no one left to operate it, and the old farmer needed someone to rent the land and operate it, so he could make a living in retirement as well. With none of his kids left, he had to rent to another farmer. This is how farms grew (and continue to grow) in our area. More people opted out than were squeezed out. One guy running a couple hundred acres by himself wasn't getting hosed by the government, but he wasn't able to make the same profit as a larger operator because he couldn't run as many acres without adding machinery and labor costs, and was disadvantaged marketing his grain without investing in grain storage. The guys who grew were those who were willing to go out on a limb and borrow money to grow their business. A lot of guys didn't want to take that kind of risk and sold out, found a good job in town, and rented their land out to those who did. Some of the guys who work for us used to farm on their own, or run a few acres and use their job here to supplement their farming operation. They find they enjoy the steady paycheck and lack of personal risk that comes with working for a larger farm, plus it gives them the financial freedom and ability to operate their side operation on their own terms and without fear of losing their ass.

Simply put, there are larger scale ag operations in our area (we're one) but they're all family run with many family members participating in the business. My dad and uncle took over my grandpa's land and machinery and today I'm involved full time, as is my dad's cousin, and we rent all the land that my grandparents, aunt, and 2 uncles own in the area as well rent land from other families where the scenario I described above took place. But one might come to our shop, see all of our grain bins, big John Deere equipment and think "factory farm", but it's absolutely a family business to the core. We don't really have any special tax breaks either. Ag-based tax breaks in Iowa are available to operators of any size.

This idea of some company with an office in a Chicago/Minneapolis/Des Moines skyscraper paying mercenaries to operate 50,000 acres of ground and run 100 livestock buildings where they torture animals is simply a fiction here. There are some nation-wide livestock companies who have barns around northern Iowa, but almost all of the grain operations are run by a family, or consist of several families pooling their resources to increase marketing opportunity and cut costs.

I bow to you on this topic, but I believe that it is a "social cause" which people have stumped for. Whether informed or less informed on the issue.
How about ADM (Archers Daniel Midland) and Cargill ?

Some of those large seed and fertilizer companies have pulled some bad shit on people in the past, but my area has been really insulated from it, so I can't speak to it either way, at least in an informed sense, which means I'm not going to speculate too much. . If companies like Cargill and ADM are what people are referring to when discussing "factory farms", then I get the rage. We don't do any business with Monsanto, for example, as we grow 100% non-GMO corn (and will likely continue to do so as we get a nice premium for it), so I have no experience with their practices other than what I've read about.

Our positions are often dictated by experience too.

[Gaetzi]

9 Bullets is one of Patterson's oldest DBT tunes. Maybe he just got tired of playing it?

[Smitty]

9 Bullets is one of Patterson's oldest DBT tunes. Maybe he just got tired of playing it?

Probably so.

[brett27295]

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/life ... /83225144/

[Cole Younger]

But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down. as if there is only room for one specific type of person in the fan base. It has never been that way as far as I knew.

Spend some time on some of the Facebook DBT groups, read some of the vile, unveiled racist, and sexist comments from so-called fans and then tell me that. In a recent thread one of our well-known female 3dd'ers was told to go kill herself for expressing feminist thoughts. Still don't think it needs to be trimmed down?

Those are the people I'm talking about. There's plenty of room at DBT shows for people from all walks of life regardless of your politics, sex, sexual orientation, etc. I'm specifically referring to a certain very small segment of the DBT fanbase that I wouldn't miss.

I don't spend time on very many Internet forums or groups for that very reason. It's one of the reasons that I left the DBT Facebook group. Got sick of the political stuff from both sides. The internet lets people be at their worst.

If you take exception to what I said there's no need for that. It wasn't anything personal.

[woollyB]

A random aside, but as much as Sinkhole rocks, being too sympathetic for the farmer bugs me a little, and I say this is as a farmer.

For one, it's a 5th generation farm. That thing is paid off. The protagonist (almost certainly) inherited it, and has no money of his own in it, or at least didn't at one point in time. Yet he's borrowed so much against it that he's lost his ass and the farm in the process. And the banker deserves to die because the farmer can't manage his business for shit? That's some real bullshit.

For the record, I don't think that's the message Patterson is trying to send. He's simply telling the farmer's side of the story. Therefore, I don't read much into Sinkhole politically. I just don't see a political message there.

Well said. Sinkhole is a top 10 all time DBT song for me but it's always bugged me a little that the farmer feels justified in murdering the banker when the farmer obviously failed to pay his debts .... maybe there was a drought or whatever but you generally don't get to default on loans and keep the house.

In any event I think that song captures the essence of desperation as well as anything I've heard and I'd rather Patterson write songs in that vein than get mired in bullshit red vs. blue political theater (hint: the bankers own both). But as I and others have said in this thread, none of us is in any position to say what Patterson "should" do.

p.s. in similarly questionable logic, it was not a good look for Patterson to publicly whine about what would happen to his house at the hands of real estate developers ... shortly after he cleared about $700,000 selling it to the real estate developer.

http://www.flagpole.com/news/in-the-loo ... my-800-000

http://onlineathens.com/breaking-news/2 ... tent=image

[John A Arkansawyer]

I've got a friend in Fayetteville whose family owned 800 acres some distance out of town since before the war. Eventually, rich folks started buying up the land nearby. Some wanted big old compounds--one of the Tyson family has an 200-acre front yard and a back yard to match--while others were developing around it. Eventually the city made it known his family could sell them their land or lose it to eminent domain. They sold it; they made a lot of money; they'd rather have kept the land.

On a smaller scale, the same thing happened in my old neighborhood, as property owners got picked off one by one. They were where they wanted to be till they were forced out. Some were happy to get the money; others are still pissed off.

Take it for what it's worth...unlike folks who get it taken for what someone else thinks it's worth, or sells it for what they can get.

[Smitty]

Wow this has been a winding thread.
let's get back on track...

When's the last time they played "Demonic Possession"?

[Kudzu Guillotine]

Wow this has been a winding thread.
let's get back on track...

When's the last time they played "Demonic Possession"?

When they did Gangstabilly all the way through at the 40 Watt? Just a guess.

[brett27295]

If you take exception to what I said there's no need for that. It wasn't anything personal.

I didn't take exception at all. You stated "But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down" and I simply explained the reason why some (including myself) have said it wouldn't hurt.

[John A Arkansawyer]

With all the great new material, I get why we don't hear a lot of unreleased stuff in the show, but I would love to hear one dropped in from time to time. Much of a completist attitude as I have, I still haven't fully digested that stuff...which is funny, because I've sought out and bought pricey things for single tracks by favored artists before. I wonder if it's that the collector urge has lessened now that a rarity is just a download? Or if it's specific to me with DBT because it's the living, breathing ROCK SHOW that opened so much of their material to me in a way that I had not gotten from the records.

[Cole Younger]

If you take exception to what I said there's no need for that. It wasn't anything personal.

I didn't take exception at all. You stated "But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down" and I simply explained the reason why some (including myself) have said it wouldn't hurt.

10 4. The whole, "go read...still think it doesn't need trimming?" came off like a challenge but I've posted things that were taken in a way I did t mean.

It would be cool if they played Greenville to Baton Rouge and Daddy's Cup in Tallahassee but realistically they're probably not going to play either of those songs again.

Checkout Time In Vegas

The Deeper In

When The Pin Hits The Shell

Goodbye.

[John A Arkansawyer]

It would be cool if they played Greenville to Baton Rouge and Daddy's Cup in Tallahassee but realistically they're probably not going to play either of those songs again.

I kind of thought they were going to pull out Greenville to Baton Rouge when they talked about Skynyrd here in Little Rock on the anniversary of the crash.

The Deeper In

When The Pin Hits The Shell

I'd love to hear The Deeper In. I did get When The Pin Hits The Shell, which I do love. It made driving on Avalon with my kid when we went up to Florence--or is Avalon in Muscle Shoals? I forget--quite an experience. A good one tinged with thoughtfulness and a determination to make happier endings whenever I could.

[Eyes Above It]

Ill tell you what I want brought back, the old early 00's intro to Southern Thing.

Back in the 1860s my great great granddaddy was drafted into the confederate army, and he was none too goddamn happy about it either

.

I love this version because it serves as a reminder that not every Confederate solider was a white supremacist, some of them were just average everyday folks who didnt even own slaves and got drafted into the war.

The other side of the story should be told

.

https://ia801409.us.archive.org/25/item ... .d1t10.mp3
https://ia801409.us.archive.org/25/item ... .d1t11.mp3

Awesome despite the broken amp and everything.

[GuitarManUpstairs]

https://vimeo.com/116273297

#wallace

There's a lot of good folks around here.

[bovine knievel]

^^^
Where the hell you been? How the hell you been?

[GuitarManUpstairs]

^^^
Where the hell you been? How the hell you been?

Hell. I'm better now. Missed yall. Just checking in to see if there were still three dimes.

[Cole Younger]

I think it's hard to argue that Patterson's song writing has gotten too political for it not to hurt the band in some form or fashion. He's obviously free to write what the hell he wants to write, but they're going to sell less tickets if they don't get off this soap box and stick to doing what they do best.

I don't go to a Truckers show to hear songs about the current political or racial climate. I don't mind at all if Patterson wants to give even more than his two cents in between songs, but for the love of Christ, don't write a cheesy song about the Black Lives Matter movement or anything of that nature. He's too good of a songwriter for that. Stick to the dark shit about holding grudges, being fucked over, exacting revenge, avoiding the law, violence, murder, rape, incest, addiction, depression, broken families, and everything else that most bands won't touch. That's what really tells a powerful story.

Any jack off can stand in front of a Black Lives Matter sign and insert themselves into that conversation. Anyone can write a politically oriented song that sounds very out of place in their respective catalogue. Patterson has too much talent for that. Don't waste precious spots in your set for numerous crappy songs just to try to be politically correct. I think we all knew him moving to Portland wasn't going to be a positive change for people who like old school, hard rocking, hard living DBT. I'm genuinely glad for him if he and his family are happy and enjoying life. But it sucks that it seems like it's going to push him further and further in a different direction artistically.

For the record, I agree with many of Patterson's political stances. And I'm not someone to shy away from talking about them. But it can definitely be taken too far. It's especially surprising to me that everyone in the band would agree to have a sign associating them with a VERY confused and often times misguided movement like the Black Lives Matter campaign. There are some vocal "leaders" behind that charge that are in it for the wrong reasons. I don't think that's really what DBT ever has been, and I sure hope it's not what they want to become.

Wow. Man even if I don't agree with 100% of that its refreshing in a way. The guys have always been an at least somewhat political band. I say somewhat because while it has always been there it never detracted from the music or made the music an afterthought. I can think of a few bands who seem to talk about politics and get to a few songs if they can squeeze them in. I'm exaggerating but it almost seems that bad for a few bands.

I don't care where Patterson lives other than always having loved it that he lived here in Georgia. But he needs to do what's best for him and his family.

I don't agree with his politics for the most part but that has never hindered my ability to enjoy his and the band's music. It's never been a problem for me. But lately it seems to have kicked into high gear. I don't mean the high percentage of political songs among the new ones. I pretty much love all of those songs. I'm talking about the pointedness of some of the commentary. Maybe that's not even new but for some reason I notice it more lately and just being perfectly honest, I'm turned off by it. Stating an opinion different from mine doesn't bother me nor does stating the opinion that other people are wrong who might hold the same opinion as me. No big deal. What I'm bothered by is the characterization of those who don't share the political opinions of the band as bad people. Referring to them as or an individual as a "piece of shit" based on politics. I really don't like this sort of thing. Like I said, it may not be new, I may just be noticing it more. But I don't like it. I have a very good grasp of just how much my not liking it matters. But I also don't understand the notion that the fan base might need to be trimmed down. as if there is only room for one specific type of person in the fan base. It has never been that way as far as I knew.

This has been in the back of my mind and I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was bothering me until I read this. It's gotten bad enough that I have considered making Tallahassee my last show. If not for good then definitely for a long time.

Never mind.