buddymo wrote:I seem to recall a recording of a particular DBT show where Cooley just ripped into someone in the audience for waving the Confederate flag. I'd love to listen to it on archive.org - does anyone remember what show it was from?

Yes. I don't remember the date but it was in Oxford, Miss.

I wasn't there but a good friend of mine was and I believe the quote was, "hey you! If we weren't in Oxford, Mississippi I would jump down there and kick that thing up your ass!"

brett27295 wrote:

Cole Younger wrote: As far as us being elitist dicks, we are, aren't we?

Yes

A lot of good folks on those fan groups though!

Yeah I see a lot of people from here. There are folks over there that seem like they would fit in well here but aren't members here.

The one facebook group you mentioned that has a lot of non fans who get on there and rip the band also seems to have a fairly large number of fans who are just kind of clueless. Casual fans I suppose. They seem genuinely shocked at some of the things Patterson says. At this point I don't see how there can be any question as to where he stands.

StevieRay wrote:

LBRod wrote:

njMark wrote:Great article as per usual by Patterson. Only question I have and I'm sure growing up in the northeast I'm inclined to see it this way, but, seeing the federal troops as an invading army is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

Perspective, Mark. Federal did not mean the same thing then.

I brought up this exact thing over in the never-ending political shit thread. Civil War historian Shelby Foote memorably points out (on film in the Ken Burns series) that the average Confederate foot soldier when asked by "Federals" why he was fighting would respond: "I'm fighting because you're down here."

Isn't that more disheartening than anything else? These poor souls were duped into fighting and dying to preserve the way of life for rich slave owners under the guise of what, preserving a heritage that they surely weren't enjoying. The fact that this is still an issue in 2015 is pathetic.

Cole Younger wrote:Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson. That guy who is basically trying to refute every single thing Patterson said, and calling everyone who agrees with Patterson a "bigot" and accusing them of being brainwashed in government re-education camps, yeah that guy. Well, I tried to talk some sense into him. I don't know why. But he friend requested me. Ok, that's fine. I gave him the ok. Big mistake. My news feed was immediately nothing but political articles that he had linked and shared on his page with all his "friends". I can't do it justice. There was nothing else on my feed for miles but this guy's stuff. He must sit on the computer and do nothing but that all day long. It was almost kind of scary. It was so bad that I had to immediately block him. I don't know if he's a member here. I kind of wondered if it was LJ.

Moral of the story, be particular about you friends over on the book.

What's the guy's name?

Cole Younger wrote:Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson. That guy who is basically trying to refute every single thing Patterson said, and calling everyone who agrees with Patterson a "bigot" and accusing them of being brainwashed in government re-education camps, yeah that guy. Well, I tried to talk some sense into him. I don't know why. But he friend requested me. Ok, that's fine. I gave him the ok. Big mistake. My news feed was immediately nothing but political articles that he had linked and shared on his page with all his "friends". I can't do it justice. There was nothing else on my feed for miles but this guy's stuff. He must sit on the computer and do nothing but that all day long. It was almost kind of scary. It was so bad that I had to immediately block him. I don't know if he's a member here. I kind of wondered if it was LJ.

Moral of the story, be particular about you friends over on the book.

Be careful... it's dangerous out there, man! Wear a condom; u gotta protect your elitist dick.

beantownbubba wrote:

Cole Younger wrote:Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson. That guy who is basically trying to refute every single thing Patterson said, and calling everyone who agrees with Patterson a "bigot" and accusing them of being brainwashed in government re-education camps, yeah that guy. Well, I tried to talk some sense into him. I don't know why. But he friend requested me. Ok, that's fine. I gave him the ok. Big mistake. My news feed was immediately nothing but political articles that he had linked and shared on his page with all his "friends". I can't do it justice. There was nothing else on my feed for miles but this guy's stuff. He must sit on the computer and do nothing but that all day long. It was almost kind of scary. It was so bad that I had to immediately block him. I don't know if he's a member here. I kind of wondered if it was LJ.

Moral of the story, be particular about you friends over on the book.

Be careful... it's dangerous out there, man! Wear a condom; u gotta protect your elitist dick.

I saw the thread, Cole, but didn't see where you got into it with him

EDIT: Found it. Man does that guy like to talk

Isn't that more disheartening than anything else? These poor souls were duped into fighting and dying to preserve the way of life for rich slave owners under the guise of what, preserving a heritage that they surely weren't enjoying. The fact that this is still an issue in 2015 is pathetic.

I don't believe most were duped by the heritage argument as much as fighting back for an invading army burning their homeland. Others, like REL, fought out of loyalty to their state (which was prided in the same way the larger country is now).

I saw the one guy on the official DBT's FB page that cut and pasted nearly the exact same response to everyone's post where he referenced Gangstabilly and proceeded to call the Truckers' morons and bigots due to the title of the album, which he said had made the DBT's "millions". Several folks (including Jenn) attempted to reason with him but he'd have none of it. It's folks like that that are a good reason to stay out of the Comments section. Easier said than done but I didn't dare enter the fray. I admire those that did but when you're dealing with folks like that it pretty much adds up to a colossal waste of time.

brett27295 wrote:

Tequila Cowboy wrote:No gun control wasn't the same issue then. Handgun control was discussed and implemented in various ways in large cities but to illustrate how different it was the NRA was very pro gun registration at that point and favored certain limits on gun ownership while still representing their rural base.

That was also before the NRA become a lobbying arm of the arms manufacturers. If anyone ever has some time to kill I suggest you read about the history of the NRA and the massive changes it has gone through over the past 30+ years as it has morphed into what it is today.

My maternal grandfather was a very successful business owner in rural NC, a Roosevelt Democrat, an NRA member, and, unfortunately, a racist. He would rescind his NRA membership were he still alive. He would likely still be a racist. I miss that man.

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:I saw the one guy on the official DBT's FB page that cut and pasted nearly the exact same response to everyone's post where he referenced Gangstabilly and proceeded to call the Truckers' morons and bigots due to the title of the album, which he said had made the DBT's "millions". Several folks (including Jenn) attempted to reason with him but he'd have none of it. It's folks like that are a good reason to stay out of the Comments section. Easier said than done but I didn't dare enter the fray. I admire those that did but when you're dealing with folks like that it pretty much adds up to a colossal waste of time.

Spot on. I don't know why I do that. I realize how this sort of thing works. You aren't going to convince anyone in these comments sections of anything. They are too certain they are right. You can present them with what you know to be true and do so politely but they will most likely, ignore the facts you've presented, explain them away, just insult you, or some combination of any or all of those three. Somehow I'm still drawn from time to time. To be fair the guy wasn't rude to me but he pretty much ignored what I said and launched into an attack on the other people posting and basically called Patterson an idiot. In addition to all of that, I've got enough political stuff popping up on my facebook feed as it is. I couldn't handle this guy's dedication to it. The block feature is a wonderful thing.

Cole Younger wrote:

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:I saw the one guy on the official DBT's FB page that cut and pasted nearly the exact same response to everyone's post where he referenced Gangstabilly and proceeded to call the Truckers' morons and bigots due to the title of the album, which he said had made the DBT's "millions". Several folks (including Jenn) attempted to reason with him but he'd have none of it. It's folks like that are a good reason to stay out of the Comments section. Easier said than done but I didn't dare enter the fray. I admire those that did but when you're dealing with folks like that it pretty much adds up to a colossal waste of time.

Spot on. I don't know why I do that. I realize how this sort of thing works. You aren't going to convince anyone in these comments sections of anything. They are too certain they are right. You can present them with what you know to be true and do so politely but they will most likely, ignore the facts you've presented, explain them away, just insult you, or some combination of any or all of those three. Somehow I'm still drawn from time to time. To be fair the guy wasn't rude to me but he pretty much ignored what I said and launched into an attack on the other people posting and basically called Patterson an idiot. In addition to all of that, I've got enough political stuff popping up on my facebook feed as it is. I couldn't handle this guy's dedication to it. The block feature is a wonderful thing.

My impression of that guy was that he didn't have a fucking clue as to who the Truckers are or what they're about. His sole purpose was to piss people off. Unfortunately, I've fallen for that tactic before myself. Not this time.

Jim&Jewell wrote:Hey Swamp. We are related!

I knew there was somethin about you I liked. SSoA

Cole Younger wrote:
Moral of the story, be particular about you friends over on the book.

OMG!! what an evil place...............

njMark wrote:
Isn't that more disheartening than anything else? These poor souls were duped into fighting and dying to preserve the way of life for rich slave owners under the guise of what, preserving a heritage that they surely weren't enjoying. The fact that this is still an issue in 2015 is pathetic.

"To the fucking rich man all poor people look the same" To me best line in the song.

Cole Younger wrote:

buddymo wrote:I seem to recall a recording of a particular DBT show where Cooley just ripped into someone in the audience for waving the Confederate flag. I'd love to listen to it on archive.org - does anyone remember what show it was from?

Yes. I don't remember the date but it was in Oxford, Miss.

I wasn't there but a good friend of mine was and I believe the quote was, "hey you! If we weren't in Oxford, Mississippi I would jump down there and kick that thing up your ass!"

We were there. Got it on video somewhere but that's pretty much what he said and also the only time I saw a flag waver at a dbt show...........
but then I'm usually on the wall, yall call it the rail.

brett27295 wrote:

Cole Younger wrote: As far as us being elitist dicks, we are, aren't we?

Yes

Thank God there weren't many dick elitists back in college or I suspect few of us elitist dicks would have ever gotten laid.

Smitty wrote:

Isn't that more disheartening than anything else? These poor souls were duped into fighting and dying to preserve the way of life for rich slave owners under the guise of what, preserving a heritage that they surely weren't enjoying. The fact that this is still an issue in 2015 is pathetic.

I don't believe most were duped by the heritage argument as much as fighting back for an invading army burning their homeland. Others, like REL, fought out of loyalty to their state (which was prided in the same way the larger country is now).

Yep. People weren't Americans back then anyway. That "us" didn't develop until after the civil war, and has been only partially accepted by many southerners ever since. FWIW, I don't think most people who feel attached to the rebel flag intend racist things by displaying it. Some do, but I'd guess most don't. But I still think that's a large part of what the flag signifies whether only a few mean it that way or not. I'm not sure I've ever seen it flying in any of those lynching pictures, though maybe it was, but I've sure seen it used by the KKK and by people protesting civil rights. So whether people still defending the flag mean it that way or not, it's a part of the heritage that it represents.

lotusamerica wrote:

Smitty wrote:

Isn't that more disheartening than anything else? These poor souls were duped into fighting and dying to preserve the way of life for rich slave owners under the guise of what, preserving a heritage that they surely weren't enjoying. The fact that this is still an issue in 2015 is pathetic.

I don't believe most were duped by the heritage argument as much as fighting back for an invading army burning their homeland. Others, like REL, fought out of loyalty to their state (which was prided in the same way the larger country is now).

Yep. People weren't Americans back then anyway. That "us" didn't develop until after the civil war, and has been only partially accepted by many southerners ever since. FWIW, I don't think most people who feel attached to the rebel flag intend racist things by displaying it. Some do, but I'd guess most don't. But I still think that's a large part of what the flag signifies whether only a few mean it that way or not. I'm not sure I've ever seen it flying in any of those lynching pictures, though maybe it was, but I've sure seen it used by the KKK and by people protesting civil rights. So whether people still defending the flag mean it that way or not, it's a part of the heritage that it represents.

Yes. That's why I argued in the politics thread that the Charleston tragedy marked the end of the attempt to "re-brand" the flag: Attributing only the best motives, a lot of people put a lot of effort into trying to have the accepted meaning/understanding of the flag changed from racist to southern pride (in various formulations). My unscientific observation is that they were having some success. But Charleston put an emphatic end to that. I can understand well-intentioned "re-branders" being upset and disappointed by that, but the reality is what it is and there's no chance of the flag standing for any non-racist position in the popular or broader culture for the foreseeable future.

For what it's worth: I've lived in NC for 18 years. I've lived in a very rural area, I've lived in a medium sized town, and I now live in Raleigh. In all that time and in all those various areas I can't ever recall seeing a Confederate flag flying anywhere. Now I'm sure there were some and I didn't really notice or pay attention but it certainly wasn't something you saw very often. I've probably seen more the past week or so than I have the entire time I've lived in NC. I saw a few this past weekend flying from trucks and the back or motorcycles (interestingly enough Kid Rock played Raleigh Saturday night and I can almost guarantee the majority of those I saw were headed to the show, especially considering his recent statements about the flag).

I grew up in PA and we drive home in June every year to pick up my kids and visit with family. I saw more Confederate flags in PA than I've ever seen in NC. I even remarked on it and this is before it became a national issue. It's always been that way. Where I come from the Confederate flag represents "redneck pride" or something similar. When the flag became a big issue my Facebook was blowing up. The people most upset? Mostly my PA friends. And they certainly can't claim heritage. Weird.

there's always been a lot of confederate flags around here but you've seen fewer and fewer the last decade until now, but I'm sure they'll go away as well when the hooplah dies down.

brett27295 wrote:For what it's worth: I've lived in NC for 18 years. I've lived in a very rural area, I've lived in a medium sized town, and I now live in Raleigh. In all that time and in all those various areas I can't ever recall seeing a Confederate flag flying anywhere. Now I'm sure there were some and I didn't really notice or pay attention but it certainly wasn't something you saw very often. I've probably seen more the past week or so than I have the entire time I've lived in NC. I saw a few this past weekend flying from trucks and the back or motorcycles (interestingly enough Kid Rock played Raleigh Saturday night and I can almost guarantee the majority of those I saw were headed to the show, especially considering his recent statements about the flag).

I grew up in PA and we drive home in June every year to pick up my kids and visit with family. I saw more Confederate flags in PA than I've ever seen in NC. I even remarked on it and this is before it became a national issue. It's always been that way. Where I come from the Confederate flag represents "redneck pride" or something similar. When the flag became a big issue my Facebook was blowing up. The people most upset? Mostly my PA friends. And they certainly can't claim heritage. Weird.

Yep. I live in a really small town in southwest Ga pretty close to the georgia/alabama border. I used to see the flag a lot as a kid. Less as I got older and almost not at all the last ten years or so. Now I see it everywherel. People don't like being forced to do anything, and this push back is pretty predictable. I understand that nobody is being forced to not fly it at their house or on their vehicle etc. but right or wrong, they take this as being told what they can and can not do. And nobody likes that.

Tom Petty weighs in (link below). Does anyone know if Skynyrd is still using the Confederate flag in their shows post-June 17th (when the massacre occurred in Charleston)? I see a lot of uproar on their FB page about them dropping the flag but as best as I can tell, that reaction is based on a statement Skynyrd issued in 2012 that they quickly reneged on due to overwhelming backlash from their fans. More recent photos of Skynyrd show Johnny Van Zant draping an American flag around his mic stand. I also see where, when they play "Sweet Home Alabama" they're now using the Alabama state flag (photo is from 2011).




Tom Petty on Past Confederate Flag Use: 'It Was Downright Stupid'
"[The flag] shouldn't represent us in any way," Petty says. "We should be more concerned with why the police are killing black men for no reason"


Tom Petty says using the Confederate flag on past tours and promotional materials was "downright stupid"
Jeff Daly/Invision/AP

so cops are killin' black folk for no reason now says petty. fuckin' guy smokes too much happy cabbage

Wolf wrote:so cops are killin' black folk for no reason now says petty. fuckin' guy smokes too much happy cabbage

Ok, it's not "no reason". But if anyone found this justified, they're probably a sociopath:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/08/fo ... black-man/

yes Iowan that is totally unjustified and the cop will rot in prison hopefully

Wolf wrote:yes Iowan that is totally unjustified and the cop will rot in prison hopefully

So maybe you and Petty aren't that far off here.

Wolf wrote:yes Iowan that is totally unjustified and the cop will rot in prison hopefully

Unfortunately the recent evidence suggests that they will not go to prison. I'd like to be wrong.

Wolf wrote:so cops are killin' black folk for no reason now says petty. fuckin' guy smokes too much happy cabbage

there will be no shit talking about tom petty on my watch. put em up, mother fucker!

and he is old and high.

Heard this today "FSU is more than football" It sounded familiar.