Patterson: The South’s Heritage Is So Much More Than a Flag

Mike127 · Post by **Mike127** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:47 am

Surprised to see this hadn't been posted yet:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/magaz ... -flag.html

On point as always.

Post by **Tequila Cowboy** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:05 am

I just saw this and was coming to post it. I am so very proud of Patterson today.

Mike127 · Post by **Mike127** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:11 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:I just saw this and was coming to post it. I am so very proud of Patterson today.

Agreed - the best piece I've seen written on this topic since this controversy blew up.

Interestingly, I've seen alot of pieces being written recently that use his phrase "the duality of the Southern thing" without attribution, or any DBT related context - its truly entered the lexicon for anyone who writes about the South, yet the band rarely plays the song anymore due to the misinterpretations of some.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:02 pm

Proud of the glory, stare down the shame

Thanks Patterson.

beantownbubba · Post by **beantownbubba** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:04 pm

I'm a little disappointed he didn't suggest the moonshine flag, but otherwise first rate and, given the people I know, nice to be able to say "dbt" and "new york times" in the same sentence

Clams · Post by **Clams** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:11 pm

As usual he is spot on with what he says and how he says it. Well done, Patterson.

Swamp · Post by **Swamp** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:32 pm

Thanks to watching those genological shows I watch, there's a posibility I'm related to Black Beard. I'm gonna start flying a scull and crossbones to represent my heritage.
sorry about the spelling. I'm from the south

Post by **BigTom** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:00 pm

Mark Kemp author of Dixie Lullaby on Patterson's article.

http://m.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2015/07 ... imes-essay

Kudzu Guillotine · Post by **Kudzu Guillotine** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:04 pm

BigTom wrote:Mark Kemp author of Dixie Lullaby on Patterson's article.

http://m.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2015/07 ... imes-essay

Back in 2012, when Skynyrd talked about doing away with the Confederate flag there was a backlash from their fans. Instead, they compromised by using a hybrid of the Confederate and U.S. flags. Long ago, Ronnie Van Zant wanted to do away with it but gave in to pressure from MCA. Ronnie Van Zant saw it as little more than a gimmick.

Iowan · Post by **Iowan** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:37 am

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:
BigTom wrote:Mark Kemp author of Dixie Lullaby on Patterson's article.

http://m.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2015/07 ... imes-essay
Back in 2012, when Skynyrd talked about doing away with the Confederate flag there was a backlash from their fans. Instead, they compromised by using a hybrid of the Confederate and U.S. flags. Long ago, Ronnie Van Zant wanted to do away with it but gave in to pressure from MCA. Ronnie Van Zant saw it as little more than a gimmick.

I've always found it interesting how Ronnie's clearly progressive/liberal political stances went right over the head of his audience. "Saturday Night Special" couldn't be more literal in it's anti-hand gun stance, for example.

tinnitus photography · Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:52 am

yep.

but then Johnny takes it right back to the other direction.

Iowan · Post by **Iowan** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:59 am

tinnitus photography wrote:yep.

but then Johnny takes it right back to the other direction.

Indeed he does. I think they even made a recent album called "God & Guns" or something to that effect. I get that everyone wants to make a living and succeed financially, but he's really shit on his brother's legacy, IMO.

Kudzu Guillotine · Post by **Kudzu Guillotine** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:05 am

People love to say that Ronnie Van Zant would think this or that about certain subjects or that he also would have eventually become a Republican but the truth of the matter is, no one knows.

Another thing that tends to drive me up the wall is when they do these CMT Crossroads things with the likes of Montgomery Gentry and Brantley Gilbert align themselves with Kid Rock. To my knowledge, Ronnie Van Zant's country music influences were Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Bob Wills and Jimmie Rodgers. To the best of my recollection, this post-crash version of the band has never even hinted at those influences.

Mike127 · Post by **Mike127** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:24 am

BigTom wrote:Mark Kemp author of Dixie Lullaby on Patterson's article.

http://m.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2015/07 ... imes-essay

Thanks for posting this - I really enjoyed Dixie Lullaby and in particular the way Kemp was able to draw a throughline from The Allman Bros & Marshall Tucker right into R.E.M. and DBT. I had no idea Mills & Berry had worked for Phil Walden before they went to Athens.

Iowan · Post by **Iowan** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:51 am

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:People love to say that Ronnie Van Zant would think this or that about certain subjects or that he also would have eventually become a Republican but the truth of the matter is, no one knows.

Another thing that tends to drive me up the wall is when they do these CMT Crossroads things with the likes of Montgomery Gentry and Brantley Gilbert align themselves with Kid Rock. To my knowledge, Ronnie Van Zant's country music influences were Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Bob Wills and Jimmie Rodgers. To the best of my recollection, this post-crash version of the band has never even hinted at those influences.

Yeah, I'm not trying to say I have some special insight into RVZ, just pointing the complete 180 that modern "Skynyrd" is to what Ronnie was doing, philosophically.

Kudzu Guillotine · Post by **Kudzu Guillotine** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:52 am

Iowan wrote:
Kudzu Guillotine wrote:People love to say that Ronnie Van Zant would think this or that about certain subjects or that he also would have eventually become a Republican but the truth of the matter is, no one knows.

Another thing that tends to drive me up the wall is when they do these CMT Crossroads things with the likes of Montgomery Gentry and Brantley Gilbert align themselves with Kid Rock. To my knowledge, Ronnie Van Zant's country music influences were Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Bob Wills and Jimmie Rodgers. To the best of my recollection, this post-crash version of the band has never even hinted at those influences.
Yeah, I'm not trying to say I have some special insight into RVZ, just pointing the complete 180 that modern "Skynyrd" is to what Ronnie was doing, philosophically.

Agreed with you on that point. Apologies if I didn't make myself clear.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:01 pm

Iowan wrote:
Kudzu Guillotine wrote:
BigTom wrote:Mark Kemp author of Dixie Lullaby on Patterson's article.

http://m.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2015/07 ... imes-essay
Back in 2012, when Skynyrd talked about doing away with the Confederate flag there was a backlash from their fans. Instead, they compromised by using a hybrid of the Confederate and U.S. flags. Long ago, Ronnie Van Zant wanted to do away with it but gave in to pressure from MCA. Ronnie Van Zant saw it as little more than a gimmick.

I've always found it interesting how Ronnie's clearly progressive/liberal political stances went right over the head of his audience. "Saturday Night Special" couldn't be more literal in it's anti-hand gun stance, for example.

I know there's always been a segment of the US that fears gun control, but I'm not sure it was a defining "conservative" issue in the 70's. Anyone who was actually around then wanna concur or correct?

Post by **Tequila Cowboy** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:21 pm

No gun control wasn't the same issue then. Handgun control was discussed and implemented in various ways in large cities but to illustrate how different it was the NRA was very pro gun registration at that point and favored certain limits on gun ownership while still representing their rural base. That tide started to turn in the Reagan administration.

Jim&Jewell · Post by **Jim&Jewell** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:57 pm

Hey Swamp. We are related!

njMark · Post by **njMark** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:57 pm

Great article as per usual by Patterson. Only question I have and I'm sure growing up in the northeast I'm inclined to see it this way, but, seeing the federal troops as an invading army is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

LBRod · Post by **LBRod** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:03 am

njMark wrote:Great article as per usual by Patterson. Only question I have and I'm sure growing up in the northeast I'm inclined to see it this way, but, seeing the federal troops as an invading army is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

Perspective, Mark. Federal did not mean the same thing then.

StevieRay · Post by **StevieRay** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:05 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:That tide started to turn in the Reagan administration.

Yes - quite dramatically so: in a hail of bullets fired at The Gipper himself by a psychopath wielding a revolver.

That NYT article is just fantastic. A credible and intelligible voice of reason. Thank you Patterson.

StevieRay · Post by **StevieRay** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:18 am

LBRod wrote:
njMark wrote:Great article as per usual by Patterson. Only question I have and I'm sure growing up in the northeast I'm inclined to see it this way, but, seeing the federal troops as an invading army is a bit of a stretch isn't it?
Perspective, Mark. Federal did not mean the same thing then.

I brought up this exact thing over in the never-ending political shit thread. Civil War historian Shelby Foote memorably points out (on film in the Ken Burns series) that the average Confederate foot soldier when asked by "Federals" why he was fighting would respond: "I'm fighting because you're down here."

brett27295 · Post by **brett27295** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:25 am

Tequila Cowboy wrote:No gun control wasn't the same issue then. Handgun control was discussed and implemented in various ways in large cities but to illustrate how different it was the NRA was very pro gun registration at that point and favored certain limits on gun ownership while still representing their rural base.

That was also before the NRA become a lobbying arm of the arms manufacturers. If anyone ever has some time to kill I suggest you read about the history of the NRA and the massive changes it has gone through over the past 30+ years as it has morphed into what it is today.

Cole Younger · Post by **Cole Younger** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:30 pm

Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson. That guy who is basically trying to refute every single thing Patterson said, and calling everyone who agrees with Patterson a "bigot" and accusing them of being brainwashed in government re-education camps, yeah that guy. Well, I tried to talk some sense into him. I don't know why. But he friend requested me. Ok, that's fine. I gave him the ok. Big mistake. My news feed was immediately nothing but political articles that he had linked and shared on his page with all his "friends". I can't do it justice. There was nothing else on my feed for miles but this guy's stuff. He must sit on the computer and do nothing but that all day long. It was almost kind of scary. It was so bad that I had to immediately block him. I don't know if he's a member here. I kind of wondered if it was LJ.

Moral of the story, be particular about you friends over on the book.

brett27295 · Post by **brett27295** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Cole Younger wrote:Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson.

Which Facebook group? There's the "DBT" fan group that is generally great, there's the "DRIVE-BY TRUCKERS" fan group that is even better (Patterson posts on a pretty regular basis), and there is the official Drive-by Truckers Facebook page where it seems a lot of non-fans post and rip the band.

A few months ago or so someone posted here bashing the non-fans posting on the official page and a member here copied it and posted it to the fan group accusing 3DD of being elitist dicks lol. Evidently he wasn't aware of the distinction of the 3 different FB groups. Generally speaking the comments on the official band FB page are a cesspool and I stay off of it.

Post by **Tequila Cowboy** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:52 pm

brett27295 wrote:
Cole Younger wrote:Over on the book of face DBT group where the article is posted I learned a valuable lesson.
Which Facebook group? There's the "DBT" fan group that is generally great, there's the "DRIVE-BY TRUCKERS" fan group that is even better (Patterson posts on a pretty regular basis), and there is the official Drive-by Truckers Facebook page where it seems a lot of non-fans post and rip the band.

A few months ago or so someone posted here bashing the non-fans posting on the official page and a member here copied it and posted it to the fan group accusing 3DD of being elitist dicks lol. Evidently he wasn't aware of the distinction of the 3 different FB groups. Generally speaking the comments on the official band FB page are a cesspool and I stay off of it.

It was on the Drive-By Truckers group.

On Patterson's official fan page someone called him a second rate Neil Young wannabe that no one wants to listen to. The innerwebs are a dangerous place folks...

Cole Younger · Post by **Cole Younger** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:55 pm

The one I'm talking about has lots of people from here as members. I've seen you post there. Lately lots of people have been posting things like, "What DBT song do you most connect with right now?" That sort of thing. I've seen Patterson post there.

I'm a member of another one but either it hasn't been very active or somehow I'm just not a member anymore. It really wasn't very good. It seems like it's probably the one you are talking about where they think we are all elitist dicks. I wasn't aware of a third one. That seems like a lot.

As far as us being elitist dicks, we are, aren't we?

buddymo · Post by **buddymo** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:08 pm

I seem to recall a recording of a particular DBT show where Cooley just ripped into someone in the audience for waving the Confederate flag. I'd love to listen to it on archive.org - does anyone remember what show it was from?

brett27295 · Post by **brett27295** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:39 pm

Cole Younger wrote: As far as us being elitist dicks, we are, aren't we?

Yes

A lot of good folks on those fan groups though!

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