Smitty wrote:It's not just a issue within police culture; it's embedded in our culture period. It's similar to a convenience store owner automatically putting their guard up or getting anxious when they see a black person come through the door, the main difference being cops carry and are quicker to turn that fear into violence (and seemingly have a license to kill with impunity in many cases). The "better lock your door" line from McMurtry's "Twelve O' Clock Whistle" comes to mind and is so accurate; I heard my own grandparents say that almost verbatim. There are a few legitimate reasons that fit in with the mass of irrational ones that could explain where that mindset comes from and it makes it a hard fucking thing to talk openly and honestly about, but when it comes down to taking another man or woman's life, all those underlying reasons go out the window and don't mean shit. That's where i believe it becomes a police culture problem; if your prejudices and fear run that deep then you shouldn't be wearing a badge, and more than that the blue line of silence where it's sinful to speak out against a fellow cop for any kind of abuse of power needs to be eradicated (which I think is hard to do when you lump all of LE together in an "us vs. them" narrative).

Speaking of police abuses, you could change "rich man" to "police man" in "the Southern Thing" and it would be accurate as well. While it does seem like black people (particularly if they're poor) are more likely to get killed while unarmed*, poor whites do get harassed and unfairly profiled as well, so yeah it's also a class thing. The main difference from what I can see is that the stakes aren't quite as high when it's a white guy being pulled over.

So yeah, there's my disjointed Ambien-induced views on the subject. I guess I'm with Patterson in that I don't know what it means either.




*more white folks are killed by police than minorities annually, although not when adjusted for population. IOW, it's not an issue overall for white kids the way it is for black kids.

beantownbubba wrote:Let's start with the proposition that we as a society ask the police to do an impossible job. I mean that quite literally: It is not possible to be a police officer and follow all the laws, regulations, standards and expectations we apply to the job and to actions in retrospect. Some of that is inherent to the absurd bureaucracy that surrounds police work. But some of it is because we take no account of human behavior. I dare any one of us to be a cop in any big city for 90 days and not become measurably more racist (as defined by those of us w/ the luxury of not being confronted with the hard stuff). At the very least, how can you do that job for any period of time and not adopt some principles of profiling which are currently in disfavor? Now none of this is to excuse cops whose racist attitudes and violent tendencies result in unacceptable outcomes. But as Patterson says, by refusing to "clear the air," which means refusing to acknowledge the poisonous atmosphere that dominates many police departments, the based-in-fact-and-experience rationale that underlies some of that poison, the absurd and impossible to comply with demands we pout on the police AND the very diffcult questions addressing how criminals are made in this society, we never get down to the hard issues, the hard questions and the even harder answers. So whether you're on the "cops are not racists" side or the "cops are all pigs" side, you're wrong. Sorry. The core is rotten and we're all responsible for it.

Let's just take one relatively "easy" aspect of the problem: If we truly cared about reducing the number of criminals and the number of crimes they commit why would we create and administer a prison system that might be more accurately called the criminal creation and education system? If your answer to that question does not acknowledge the part that racism plays in how we approach the subject of incarceration you're just not thinking hard enough and/or looking at yourself critically enough. So, how much controversy have I created in 2 sentences addressing what appears to me to be one of the most easily understood and addressable aspects of the problem? This is hard, hard stuff and all the platitudes, righteous indignation (on whatever side of the equation), political correctness, knee jerk response and pseudo science in the world is not going to make the slightest dent in the problem.

jimmyjack wrote:

beantownbubba wrote:Let's start with the proposition that we as a society ask the police to do an impossible job. I mean that quite literally: It is not possible to be a police officer and follow all the laws, regulations, standards and expectations we apply to the job and to actions in retrospect. Some of that is inherent to the absurd bureaucracy that surrounds police work. But some of it is because we take no account of human behavior. I dare any one of us to be a cop in any big city for 90 days and not become measurably more racist (as defined by those of us w/ the luxury of not being confronted with the hard stuff). At the very least, how can you do that job for any period of time and not adopt some principles of profiling which are currently in disfavor? Now none of this is to excuse cops whose racist attitudes and violent tendencies result in unacceptable outcomes. But as Patterson says, by refusing to "clear the air," which means refusing to acknowledge the poisonous atmosphere that dominates many police departments, the based-in-fact-and-experience rationale that underlies some of that poison, the absurd and impossible to comply with demands we pout on the police AND the very diffcult questions addressing how criminals are made in this society, we never get down to the hard issues, the hard questions and the even harder answers. So whether you're on the "cops are not racists" side or the "cops are all pigs" side, you're wrong. Sorry. The core is rotten and we're all responsible for it.

Let's just take one relatively "easy" aspect of the problem: If we truly cared about reducing the number of criminals and the number of crimes they commit why would we create and administer a prison system that might be more accurately called the criminal creation and education system? If your answer to that question does not acknowledge the part that racism plays in how we approach the subject of incarceration you're just not thinking hard enough and/or looking at yourself critically enough. So, how much controversy have I created in 2 sentences addressing what appears to me to be one of the most easily understood and addressable aspects of the problem? This is hard, hard stuff and all the platitudes, righteous indignation (on whatever side of the equation), political correctness, knee jerk response and pseudo science in the world is not going to make the slightest dent in the problem.

This is a great post

pearlbeer wrote: In this day and age, it is (or at least should be) totally unacceptable for skin color to lead to ANY difference in treatment anywhere, anytime. Period.

jimmyjack wrote:

pearlbeer wrote: In this day and age, it is (or at least should be) totally unacceptable for skin color to lead to ANY difference in treatment anywhere, anytime. Period.

You realize, of course, that this is an old way of thinking and most SJWs / neo-liberals would disagree vehemently and might even call what you wrote an act of 'microinvalidation,' right? Or are you only talking about a negative difference in treatment being unacceptable? Serious question.

jimmyjack wrote: You realize, of course, that this is an old way of thinking and most SJWs / neo-liberals would disagree vehemently and might even call what you wrote an act of 'microinvalidation,' right?

Smitty wrote:If anyone starts saying "cuck", I'm outta here.

Swamp wrote:Due to the original lyrics and it's implacations I've had a hard time coming around to this one. While watching the official lyric video this past weekend it hit me like a ton of brits. And talk about perfect timing! As a Kaepernick supporter, that flag flying in the background while Patterson sang the song was totally awsome. I never understood why people pledge allegiance to a flag.

Duke Silver wrote:

Swamp wrote:Due to the original lyrics and it's implacations I've had a hard time coming around to this one. While watching the official lyric video this past weekend it hit me like a ton of brits. And talk about perfect timing! As a Kaepernick supporter, that flag flying in the background while Patterson sang the song was totally awsome. I never understood why people pledge allegiance to a flag.

That's awesome, I'm gonna steal that and use it.

pearlbeer wrote:It was really nice of them to time this to coincide with the release of American Band.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurl