English Oceans Discussion Thread

[RolanK]

I think pedal steel would have been a distraction on most of these songs. I don't really see where it would fit in these arrangements. I love pedal steel, and especially Neff's. He is a true master. But on this album I don't hear it.

If DBT were the same people today as two years ago, I imagine this album would have been a very different one, probably with different songs. Maybe there wouldn't even have been an album at all. I totally get PH's comments from around the time it was recorded, saying it was to be a punk record. In my my ears this is as punk as it gets. Not 150 bpm punk by frustrated kids in their early 20's. It's punk made by older and wiser guys. Tempo down, no 8-note power chords, but the raw energy and punk-ethos is there.

I've seen Exile pop up as a reference a lot of places, but someone, I don't remember who, made the comparison with Some Girls. I think that's pretty accurate.

[Zip City]

Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer

Zip, I love you man, but you say some of the craziest shit! First of all, if you don't love the solos and riffs in Jimmy Loud, then you're basically trashing the Rolling Stones because that song is pure Keith, Ronnie and the Stones. I know everyone's opinions vary, but those guitars are pure badass rock and roll to me. And btw - most of the solos and riffs in Jimmy are Jay, not Cooley (at least that's how they played it last month in Athens).

I love the riffs and rhythm section of Jimmy. The only part I dislike is the solo from 1:39 to 2:00.

[Clams]

I've seen Exile pop up as a reference a lot of places, but someone, I don't remember who, made the comparison with Some Girls. I think that's pretty accurate.

I'm not the one who made the comparison but it's spot on. The Stones peaked from 68-72 with Beggers Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Exile. Fast forward 10 years to 78 and Some Girls has a reconfigured lineup and a revamped, leaner sound but is just as much a classic (or pretty close to it). You could make a similar argument for DBT with the peak years of 2001-2004 with SRO, DD and TDS, then fast forward 10 years to English Oceans which also has a different lineup and leaner sound.

[Rocky]

I think you would agree that Cooley does know what he's doing. So if that's true then the "mistake solo" is therefore not a mistake at all, but rather an inspired bit of raunchery based on 30+ years of playing guitar at a high level. To me, anyway.

I, for one, vote for more raunchery!

Also glad to see a few of the Wonka golden tickets (signed cd's) went to 3DD members.

[beantownbubba]

I've seen Exile pop up as a reference a lot of places, but someone, I don't remember who, made the comparison with Some Girls. I think that's pretty accurate.

I'm not the one who made the comparison but it's spot on. The Stones peaked from 68-72 with Beggers Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Exile. Fast forward 10 years to 78 and Some Girls has a reconfigured lineup and a revamped, leaner sound but is just as much a classic (or pretty close to it). You could make a similar argument for DBT with the peak years of 2001-2004 with SRO, DD and TDS, then fast forward 10 years to English Oceans which also has a different lineup and leaner sound.

This is unbelievable in the spooky sense. I expect to post something later today that will very much remind you of this. Eerie, but just so you know the relevant part of my post was already written when I saw this, so I ain't paying you no royalties.

[RolanK]

Remember, I live in the future BTB. By some 6 hours or so. As a consequence I have already read your upcoming post.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Remember, I live in the future BTB. By some 6 hours or so. As a consequence I have already read your upcoming post.

I do need these kind of reminders from time to time as to why I love this place.

[one belt loop]

Remember, I live in the future BTB. By some 6 hours or so. As a consequence I have already read your upcoming post.

LIKE

[PonyGirl]

Let me be more clear:

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon is exactly MY point, TC.

JOHN NEFF IS NOT IN THE BAND. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. It seems perfectly fair to me to say that the version of the band w/ Neff (Isbell, Hicks, Malone, whomever) was better than the current band, if that's what you think. But I don't understand the point of imagining ad nauseum what THIS band would sound like if it was a DIFFERENT band with different members. I just don't get it and I'm tired of reading about it. Criticizing the album or a song because you don't like the guitar playing is perfectly fair and a meaningful specific criticism whether or not others agree. But I don't know what the point is of saying that somebody else would have played it better. The fact that that somebody was once in the band doesn't make it any more relevant as far as i can tell.

I used to understand the comments that a listener missed Neff's parts when hearing the songs he used to play on. I probably said that myself. But in rock years, that was a long time ago and it just doesn't add anything to the conversation at this point. What would be your reaction to someone saying that they'd love to hear Isbell's guitar or backing vocals on some track or other? To go further and speculate about what Neff (or Isbell) might have contributed to songs he's never played on is just boring imho.

Just reread this. I stand by the sentiment but the tone is much more harsh than I realized or intended. My apologies.

Oh Bubbaloo... To me, that isn't harsh as much as it is impassioned. But what's off putting about it is how unrealistic it is. For one thing, the compare and contrast approach to critical thinking is actually completely valid. Also looking back is a thing people do with frequency. Below are the kinds of quotes we hear every day... They are all pointless, but that's kind of just how people think, so railing against it is even more pointless if you ask me.

"The old chef here, didn't overcook the scallops..."
"The prior editor allowed for fewer puff pieces in this publication..."
"My old boss didn't require itemized receipts with expense reports..."
"This dress actually looked good on me before I put on 10lbs ..."
"When I had hair, I was really handsome..."
"My last dog practically trained himself..."
"I remember the days before Daddy met Svetlana and he used to spend Christmas with us..."
"I remember when Sons of Anarchy was a good show..."

You can't escape it.

[beantownbubba]

Not all those are the same, but more importantly:

Life without railing is like a day without sunshine. Which used to be better before global warming.

Your friend,

Don Q

Edited once to identify myself

[Sycamore]

Just got a notification from UPS. The scheduled delivery date for my vinyl is 3/11. ONE WEEK after it was released. I could have driven to Charlottesville and back in a week.

Dear MusicToday: This will be the LAST time I order ANYTHING from you unless I can't get it anywhere else.

Dear Drive-By Truckers: Very disappointed you chose to work with these fools. You are above that. You need lay down some of that Southern Don't Fuck With ME Attitude on them. Cooley is good at that...send him. Actually Patterson is pretty good at that too. Both of you give them some shit.

That is a joke. Got to love the music industry. Complete idiots.

FWIW, management was super late in getting stock to Musictoday. From what I understand, much of the stock didn't arrive at the warehouse until the Monday after the ship date.

[beantownbubba]

Just got a notification from UPS. The scheduled delivery date for my vinyl is 3/11. ONE WEEK after it was released. I could have driven to Charlottesville and back in a week.

Dear MusicToday: This will be the LAST time I order ANYTHING from you unless I can't get it anywhere else.

Dear Drive-By Truckers: Very disappointed you chose to work with these fools. You are above that. You need lay down some of that Southern Don't Fuck With ME Attitude on them. Cooley is good at that...send him. Actually Patterson is pretty good at that too. Both of you give them some shit.

That is a joke. Got to love the music industry. Complete idiots.

FWIW, management was super late in getting stock to Musictoday. From what I understand, much of the stock didn't arrive at the warehouse until the Monday after the ship date.

From a fan/customer's point of view, it's less relevant knowing exactly whom to blame than having a blameworthy experience. At the very least, musictoday could have emailed its customers on or shortly after the ship date to alert them to the potential problem. OK, when you've stopped laughing we can proceed.

But that's not really the issue. The problem is that this keeps happening. I'm pretty sure it's happened w/ respect to every album since I've been on this board. That's just ridiculous, especially for a band that cares so much about every aspect of its public persona and interaction w/ its fans. And I'm not saying anything new in noting that it's particularly annoying that the fans who are being treated this way have almost all decided to vote w/ their hearts, not their wallets by paying more than they have to just to support the band. That's a pretty rare thing in my experience (in all of life, not just for a band and its fans) and I would think it's something to be nurtured, not abused. So somebody(s) should be working to get this right, not spending time pointing fingers.

[RoyHandcuff]

Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer

Zip, I love you man, but you say some of the craziest shit! First of all, if you don't love the solos and riffs in Jimmy Loud, then you're basically trashing the Rolling Stones because that song is pure Keith, Ronnie and the Stones. I know everyone's opinions vary, but those guitars are pure badass rock and roll to me. And btw - most of the solos and riffs in Jimmy are Jay, not Cooley (at least that's how they played it last month in Athens).

I love the riffs and rhythm section of Jimmy. The only part I dislike is the solo from 1:39 to 2:00.

I can go for rauchy guitar solos but they have to make me feel something. This solo just lost me completely..what am I supposed to feel here? What is being projected? I agree with Zip that it just comes out like somebody who doesn't know what the hell he's gonna play and just stumbles through the solo with no real plan at all. Sorry. But, of course to those of you who love the lead track for this song, great. More power to you! I just wish I could feel what you are feeling.

[Flea]

I consider it a personal flaw that for the most part I don't have the creativity or imagination to project what might have been rather than just listening to what is and I'm jealous of those of you who can do that sort of thing. OTOH, why stop w/ Neff? What if Aretha added backing vocals on a cut or 2? What if Springsteen took the lead vocal or added some guitar on a track? How about southern boy Derek Trucks on some tasty slide? And let's not forget that we've already heard what Peter Buck might add on guitar. None of those folks are in the band. Neither is Neff. End of story.

And if my grandma had wheels she would have been a wagon.

Is that what the old cowboys meant by "Wagon Ho"?

[Steve French]

Remember, I live in the future BTB. By some 6 hours or so. As a consequence I have already read your upcoming post.

Pah, slacker. I am GMT plus 12 over here.

[Shoggoth]

Big fan of this album, but I'd love to have a version with no organ. It seems like an afterthought here rather than an integral piece.

An example would be 18 seconds into "When He's gone". What's the point?

[RolanK]

Remember, I live in the future BTB. By some 6 hours or so. As a consequence I have already read your upcoming post.

Pah, slacker. I am GMT plus 12 over here.

But you are sleeping while everyone else is awake, and vice versa. That's like living in another dimension or something

[linkous]

Big fan of this album, but I'd love to have a version with no organ. It seems like an afterthought here rather than an integral piece.

An example would be 18 seconds into "When He's gone". What's the point?

I like that organ after 18 seconds!!

[RolanK]

I like Organ. Especially Hammonds. But I don't like to carry them.

[PeterG]

Just wanted to chime in that i'm loving the addition of the Hamond to these tracks.

Also, listening to PPOM the other day, when the line,
'turning mountains into oceans, putting people on the moon' went by,
made me think that the 'Made Up English Oceans' is a reference to the TVA lakes throughout the south.
Large man made bodies of water given Native American names by the white man.
Just a thought, not sure if this had been covered before on here so please ignore my repetition if that's the case.

[heartbreaker1976]

Just wanted to chime in that i'm loving the addition of the Hamond to these tracks.

Also, listening to PPOM the other day, when the line,
'turning mountains into oceans, putting people on the moon' went by,
made me think that the 'Made Up English Oceans' is a reference to the TVA lakes throughout the south.
Large man made bodies of water given Native American names by the white man.
Just a thought, not sure if this had been covered before on here so please ignore my repetition if that's the case.

That's an interesting thought.

[BB Coach]

Having listened several times in its entirety, I think it is time for me to weigh in. I waited until official release, but did hear most of the songs on radio, live, or video. I am sure my opinions will change some in the next few months.
Top tier:
Primer Coat - love it; great bass line; do I hear REM in that song?
Pauline Hawkins - really got me the first time I heard it
When He's Gone - very DBT like; kind of a Dirty South sound to it
Made Up English Oceans - love the Eastwood western feel
Grand Canyon - will become a classic
The Part of Him - Patterson's mandelincello (sp?)!

Second tier:
Shit Shots Count - very Stonesy
Hearing Jimmy Loud - starting to grow
First Air of Autumn - kind of a Perfect Timing sound

May grow on me later:
Walter
Hangin On
Natural Light
Til He's Dead
Overall great effort, but not quite ready to put it with the Trinity (SRO, DD, DS); but better than GGB

[Markalanbishop]

When Walter Went Crazy

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/dekalb-pol ... nia/nfCrN/

[wolfgang]

I've decided to put the album on the shelf for a week or two. I've listened to it in its entirety every day since release and it's just not happening for me. So I'm going to take a break and come back to it in a week or two.

[wolfgang]

Actually I'm going back through this thread reading song meanings. I feel like I do better when I have a really good grasp on the song and I often need to read others opinions to get that grasp. Just read RevMatt's description of 'Primer Coat' and listened to it again. Total gut punch. I have two daughters and it just hit me. Man. What a song.

[Swamp]

Funny that Some Girls comes up on this thread. Altough I always liked the pedal on NY's records it just wasn't that big
with me. Same with the Stones. Always liked them but they weren't one of my favorites. Until Some Girls. Ron Woods
pedal on Far away Eyes just hit me. That's when I really became a Stones fan. It also made me appretiate Ben Keith
more than I had. During the Dirt Underneath tour Neff became my pedal hero. The only reason I think of Neff when
listening to EO is because of this thread I do miss him at the live shows though.

[PeterG]

Funny that Some Girls comes up on this thread. Altough I always liked the pedal on NY's records it just wasn't that big
with me. Same with the Stones. Always liked them but they weren't one of my favorites. Until Some Girls. Ron Woods
pedal on Far away Eyes just hit me. That's when I really became a Stones fan. It also made me appretiate Ben Keith
more than I had. During the Dirt Underneath tour Neff became my pedal hero. The only reason I think of Neff when
listening to EO is because of this thread I do miss him at the live shows though.

Neff really came alive in the Dirt Underneath format, which seems like such a long time ago, it was great to make your acquantance in SF back them Mr.Swamp. Those two nights in SF still rank with the best shows i've seen, ever.

Really loved Neff's playing, but Jay on the Hammond/Piano and Guitar has really added a different texture that i find myself liking a lot... can't wait to hear it live for myself.

[Shoggoth]

Funny that Some Girls comes up on this thread. Altough I always liked the pedal on NY's records it just wasn't that big
with me. Same with the Stones. Always liked them but they weren't one of my favorites. Until Some Girls. Ron Woods
pedal on Far away Eyes just hit me. That's when I really became a Stones fan. It also made me appretiate Ben Keith
more than I had. During the Dirt Underneath tour Neff became my pedal hero. The only reason I think of Neff when
listening to EO is because of this thread I do miss him at the live shows though.

lol how high does Jagger look in that clip?

As someone who has always been more into art rock (Floyd, Crimson, Radiohead, etc) I always appreciate the Stone's ability to just cut out the B.S.

[jmdaniel]

FWIW, management was super late in getting stock to Musictoday. From what I understand, much of the stock didn't arrive at the warehouse until the Monday after the ship date.

Well, mine was supposed to get here today, but of course, it didn't. The USPS tracking it states that it has been sitting here in Austin since 3/13, two days ago. Niiice....

[motelglory]

"Trapped in a truck with Jimmy listening to his band".

That guitar solo sucks and it sucks on purpose. It's Jimmy's band.