Zip City wrote:Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer
That's right up my alley. I think the more primitive solos are one of the reasons why I like this album so much.
Zip City wrote:Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer
That's right up my alley. I think the more primitive solos are one of the reasons why I like this album so much.
Whereas I find myself pining for Neff.....
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
Zip City wrote:Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer
That's right up my alley. I think the more primitive solos are one of the reasons why I like this album so much.
Whereas I find myself pining for Neff.....
I like Neff's playing but I don't miss him here. The feel is more down and dirty this way and I think it suits this batch of songs.
Curious though Zip, do you like raunchy, noisy solos in general, think Neil Young and Crazy Horse or J. Mascis, or is just here that they don't do much for you?
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
RolanK wrote: That's right up my alley. I think the more primitive solos are one of the reasons why I like this album so much.
Whereas I find myself pining for Neff.....
I like Neff's playing but I don't miss him here. The feel is more down and dirty this way and I think it suits this batch of songs.
Curious though Zip, do you like raunchy, noisy solos in general, think Neil Young and Crazy Horse or J. Mascis, or is just here that they don't do much for you?
I think it's a grey area. A lot of Shakey's solos are noisy and raunchy, but still purposeful. The Hearing Jimmy Loud solo literally sounds like someone who has no idea what they're doing. It sounds like a mistake.
And I don't miss Neff on every song, but a dirty slide part on Shit Shots or pedal steel on Grand Canyon would lift those songs to yet another level
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
Zip City wrote:Whereas I find myself pining for Neff.....
Me too. I'm a sucker for the pedal steel.
Don't get me wrong, I love the pedal steel too and John is damned good at the instrument. The problem is I only think it would have been appropriate on a few songs here and for this record I think the combination of Patterson, Jay and Cooley works well on lead guitar. Could Neff have fit musically? Absolutely, I just don't think he's terribly missed on this record.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
Some pedal steel on Primer Coat wouldn't hurt, IMO. But I really like the scaled down version of the band and I think a leaner, meaner, drama free version of DBT way outweights any benefits that Neff would bring w slide and steel playing. A net postive, if you will.
Finally got my cd yesterday, the sonic difference is huge! The higher end stuff like cymbals and high hats really shines through. The percussion on MUEO is also very clear and promiment.
And I have to say again, EZB pulled off something pretty amazing recording the whole album on a such a simple and scaled down kit. Bass drum, snare, high hat and cymbal? That doesn't happen. And the fact that it all sounds so natural.. It took the Conan performance and TC's response about one tom fill for me to even realize what he had done. That said, where is that one tom fill?
I consider it a personal flaw that for the most part I don't have the creativity or imagination to project what might have been rather than just listening to what is and I'm jealous of those of you who can do that sort of thing. OTOH, why stop w/ Neff? What if Aretha added backing vocals on a cut or 2? What if Springsteen took the lead vocal or added some guitar on a track? How about southern boy Derek Trucks on some tasty slide? And let's not forget that we've already heard what Peter Buck might add on guitar. None of those folks are in the band. Neither is Neff. End of story.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
beantownbubba wrote:I consider it a personal flaw that for the most part I don't have the creativity or imagination to project what might have been rather than just listening to what is and I'm jealous of those of you who can do that sort of thing. OTOH, why stop w/ Neff? What if Aretha added backing vocals on a cut or 2? What if Springsteen took the lead vocal or added some guitar on a track? How about southern boy Derek Trucks on some tasty slide? And let's not forget that we've already heard what Peter Buck might add on guitar. None of those folks are in the band. Neither is Neff. End of story.
Well this is all just silly. We know exactly what the band sounds like with Neff in it, as we have multiple records to show it. It's not hard to imagine a pedal steel part under the coda of Grand Canyon. The rest is just strawmen arguments. You can do better, bubba
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
beantownbubba wrote:I consider it a personal flaw that for the most part I don't have the creativity or imagination to project what might have been rather than just listening to what is and I'm jealous of those of you who can do that sort of thing. OTOH, why stop w/ Neff? What if Aretha added backing vocals on a cut or 2? What if Springsteen took the lead vocal or added some guitar on a track? How about southern boy Derek Trucks on some tasty slide? And let's not forget that we've already heard what Peter Buck might add on guitar. None of those folks are in the band. Neither is Neff. End of story.
And if my grandma had wheels she would have been a wagon.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
It doesn't even take any imagination at all, really. We have recordings of songs like The Living Bubba or Ghost to Most with and without pedal steel. I think the versions without are lacking, but I'm sure others disagree. Likewise, I love what Neff added to WWW, even though the original recording didn't have the pedal steel
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
it took me a couple of years to get over Isbell leaving the band. I'll get over Neff's departure too. I just need some time. And while I think it would have been nice to have pedal steel on a few tracks on EO, I believe the album is solid without it.
If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon is exactly MY point, TC.
JOHN NEFF IS NOT IN THE BAND. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. It seems perfectly fair to me to say that the version of the band w/ Neff (Isbell, Hicks, Malone, whomever) was better than the current band, if that's what you think. But I don't understand the point of imagining ad nauseum what THIS band would sound like if it was a DIFFERENT band with different members. I just don't get it and I'm tired of reading about it. Criticizing the album or a song because you don't like the guitar playing is perfectly fair and a meaningful specific criticism whether or not others agree. But I don't know what the point is of saying that somebody else would have played it better. The fact that that somebody was once in the band doesn't make it any more relevant as far as i can tell.
I used to understand the comments that a listener missed Neff's parts when hearing the songs he used to play on. I probably said that myself. But in rock years, that was a long time ago and it just doesn't add anything to the conversation at this point. What would be your reaction to someone saying that they'd love to hear Isbell's guitar or backing vocals on some track or other? To go further and speculate about what Neff (or Isbell) might have contributed to songs he's never played on is just boring imho.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
Gaetzi wrote:Some pedal steel on Primer Coat wouldn't hurt, IMO. But I really like the scaled down version of the band and I think a leaner, meaner, drama free version of DBT way outweights any benefits that Neff would bring w slide and steel playing. A net postive, if you will.
Finally got my cd yesterday, the sonic difference is huge! The higher end stuff like cymbals and high hats really shines through. The percussion on MUEO is also very clear and promiment.
And I have to say again, EZB pulled off something pretty amazing recording the whole album on a such a simple and scaled down kit. Bass drum, snare, high hat and cymbal? That doesn't happen. And the fact that it all sounds so natural.. It took the Conan performance and TC's response about one tom fill for me to even realize what he had done. That said, where is that one tom fill?
Yes and yes my fellow drummer. Some amazing stuff by Brad. I've been listening to the album with every intent of finding that one tom fill but I always get sidetracked. Someone please help us out!
Zip City wrote: The Hearing Jimmy Loud solo literally sounds like someone who has no idea what they're doing. It sounds like a mistake.
Couldn't disagree more, Zip. I think you would agree that Cooley does know what he's doing. So if that's true then the "mistake solo" is therefore not a mistake at all, but rather an inspired bit of raunchery based on 30+ years of playing guitar at a high level. To me, anyway.
If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon is exactly MY point, TC.
JOHN NEFF IS NOT IN THE BAND. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. It seems perfectly fair to me to say that the version of the band w/ Neff (Isbell, Hicks, Malone, whomever) was better than the current band, if that's what you think. But I don't understand the point of imagining ad nauseum what THIS band would sound like if it was a DIFFERENT band with different members. I just don't get it and I'm tired of reading about it. Criticizing the album or a song because you don't like the guitar playing is perfectly fair and a meaningful specific criticism whether or not others agree. But I don't know what the point is of saying that somebody else would have played it better. The fact that that somebody was once in the band doesn't make it any more relevant as far as i can tell.
I used to understand the comments that a listener missed Neff's parts when hearing the songs he used to play on. I probably said that myself. But in rock years, that was a long time ago and it just doesn't add anything to the conversation at this point. What would be your reaction to someone saying that they'd love to hear Isbell's guitar or backing vocals on some track or other? To go further and speculate about what Neff (or Isbell) might have contributed to songs he's never played on is just boring imho.
Just reread this. I stand by the sentiment but the tone is much more harsh than I realized or intended. My apologies.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon is exactly MY point, TC.
JOHN NEFF IS NOT IN THE BAND. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. It seems perfectly fair to me to say that the version of the band w/ Neff (Isbell, Hicks, Malone, whomever) was better than the current band, if that's what you think. But I don't understand the point of imagining ad nauseum what THIS band would sound like if it was a DIFFERENT band with different members. I just don't get it and I'm tired of reading about it. Criticizing the album or a song because you don't like the guitar playing is perfectly fair and a meaningful specific criticism whether or not others agree. But I don't know what the point is of saying that somebody else would have played it better. The fact that that somebody was once in the band doesn't make it any more relevant as far as i can tell.
I used to understand the comments that a listener missed Neff's parts when hearing the songs he used to play on. I probably said that myself. But in rock years, that was a long time ago and it just doesn't add anything to the conversation at this point. What would be your reaction to someone saying that they'd love to hear Isbell's guitar or backing vocals on some track or other? To go further and speculate about what Neff (or Isbell) might have contributed to songs he's never played on is just boring imho.
Just reread this. I stand by the sentiment but the tone is much more harsh than I realized or intended. My apologies.
Doesn't sound harsh to me. Must be in that 13-14Khz area
If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon is exactly MY point, TC.
JOHN NEFF IS NOT IN THE BAND. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. It seems perfectly fair to me to say that the version of the band w/ Neff (Isbell, Hicks, Malone, whomever) was better than the current band, if that's what you think. But I don't understand the point of imagining ad nauseum what THIS band would sound like if it was a DIFFERENT band with different members. I just don't get it and I'm tired of reading about it. Criticizing the album or a song because you don't like the guitar playing is perfectly fair and a meaningful specific criticism whether or not others agree. But I don't know what the point is of saying that somebody else would have played it better. The fact that that somebody was once in the band doesn't make it any more relevant as far as i can tell.
I used to understand the comments that a listener missed Neff's parts when hearing the songs he used to play on. I probably said that myself. But in rock years, that was a long time ago and it just doesn't add anything to the conversation at this point. What would be your reaction to someone saying that they'd love to hear Isbell's guitar or backing vocals on some track or other? To go further and speculate about what Neff (or Isbell) might have contributed to songs he's never played on is just boring imho.
Just reread this. I stand by the sentiment but the tone is much more harsh than I realized or intended. My apologies.
I just reread it, too. Yikes.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
- DPM
One small good thing about being late to the DBT party--and I kick myself everyday for not hopping on the bandwagon from the beginning, but life happens--is that I only know them live in their current lineup (well, I saw Neff once). Since "my" DBT is this lineup I don't have the memories of Jason, John, Matt or Shonna playing at any of DBT's previous transcendant live shows. Do not misunderstand, I love all of the Truckers' albums and thoroughly enjoy and appreciate Neff's, Shonna's, and Jason's contributions to the Hood/Cooley songs. I'm less enamored of their solo stuff and their DBT writing but that's another conversation. I'm not really sure why, but I don't miss Neff's pedal steel at all, even live, and even when they play a song on which Neff contributed a signature solo or sound or feel. I've been harsh on him about the way he left the band, but at the end of the day I hope Neff can put all this drama behind him some day because he's such a fucking great player and I'd love to see him be able to sit in live or on albums when appropriate. All of this is just to say I love this band as it stands. O yea: "I don't want to fight now, I'm only here right now, this moment is all, this moment is all."
I totally agree with TC here. I loved what Neff did with the band and see that he would definitely fit on this album. For me, I love that Jay is working out on guitar and see Shit Shots count as a perfect example - he starts the first of the shredding, then Cooley and finally Patterson going nuts at the end. In my opinion, I was getting sick of the 'pedal steel overkill' since Isbell left. An example of this is comparing versions of Carl Perkin's Cadillac. Some of you might love the Neff versions of this, but I do not - I prefer the Isbell versions. Can't wait to hear the DBT 12 version of this Cooley classic. For now, I have put Tucker and Neff out of my mind as Gonzalez and Patton have really put their marks on this band - best version of the band since Isbell left - although I did love Spooner on BTCD (how could you not!?).
Tequila Cowboy wrote:
allisonsdc wrote:
Zip City wrote:Whereas I find myself pining for Neff.....
Me too. I'm a sucker for the pedal steel.
Don't get me wrong, I love the pedal steel too and John is damned good at the instrument. The problem is I only think it would have been appropriate on a few songs here and for this record I think the combination of Patterson, Jay and Cooley works well on lead guitar. Could Neff have fit musically? Absolutely, I just don't think he's terribly missed on this record.
For what it's worth I don't miss the pedal steel in the least. I'm just not a fan of the instrument. Everytime I saw a show and Neff sat down I gave an inner groan. And yes I realize some of my favorite DBT songs were recorded with Neff playing pedal steel...I prefer the newer live arrangements since he left. Just my opinion and of course your mileage may vary.
Turn you demons into walls of goddamned noise and sound.
Everytime I see somebody pining for Isbell or Neff (mind you I used to be one of those people for Isbell), I just think of Southern Rock Opera. WHAT AN ALBUM! I don't think the lineup matters as much in the studio as it does live (based on Youtube performances, still waiting for my first show ). This might be their best live line-up. It has the energy and unconstrained quality of the Isbell days, without the out of tune singing and general drunkenness from everyone. And Jay contributes the same musical precision as Neff, without slowing down rock songs like WWW or WTDDS.
To Zip's point about pedal steel on Grand Canyon, does Angels & Fuselage suffer from a lack of pedal steel?
Zip City wrote:Not blasphemy at all. I think they're sloppy and rather un-melodic, especially compared to Cooley's other work, but there's no right/wrong answer
Zip, I love you man, but you say some of the craziest shit! First of all, if you don't love the solos and riffs in Jimmy Loud, then you're basically trashing the Rolling Stones because that song is pure Keith, Ronnie and the Stones. I know everyone's opinions vary, but those guitars are pure badass rock and roll to me. And btw - most of the solos and riffs in Jimmy are Jay, not Cooley (at least that's how they played it last month in Athens).
And while I think it would have been nice to have pedal steel on a few tracks on EO, I believe the album is solid without it.
). This might be their best live line-up. It has the energy and unconstrained quality of the Isbell days, without the out of tune singing and general drunkenness from everyone. And Jay contributes the same musical precision as Neff, without slowing down rock songs like WWW or WTDDS. 
