English Oceans Discussion Thread

[Markalanbishop]

From the website: "English Oceans has been our best received and looking to become best selling album ever." Does anyone know what this means in actual numbers? Is TDS still their best selling record? How about sales statistics for the rest of their catalogue?

[Bearee]

Post Jason Isbell era: Brighter Than Creation's Dark is great, some of the finest songwriting from DBT. The Big To Do and Go Go Boots should have been one album. Not enough good songs for two albums. Go Go Boots, my least favorite DBT album was too soon after Big To Do and seemed to be out takes from BTD - should have never been released. English Oceans is much better, but after 4 years out of the studio I expected a better crop of songs and I definitely expected better sound quality and production from this veteran band. DBT still delivers a great live concert with many great songs past and present. Do not miss them when they come to your town!

[Clams]

Excellent interview with Wes Freed:

http://consequenceofsound.net/2014/04/a ... sh-oceans/


Includes this nugget about the EO cover:

Has English Oceans been the only instance where the artwork came first, then the record?

This is the first time we’ve used an existing piece that just happened to fit in.

Are the three people in the water based on anyone specific?

It’s based on a photograph from Barr Weissman, the guy who did [Drive-By Truckers documentary] The Secret to a Happy Ending. He had commissioned me to do the painting from a photograph of his girls sticking their heads up out of a lake. It’s a really cool photograph and is just basically my take on that.

Is the background the same in the photograph? Are there spooky hills and trees?

No, basically everything except their heads sticking up out of the water is made up.

I don't recall previously hearing about that Barr Weissman connection.

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I'm guessing Barr's photo was also the inspiration behind this poster from last year since it's so similar to the cover of English Oceans.

[RolanK]

A while ago, there was a story about three sisters commissioning Wes Freed to make a portrait of them as a gift for their step-mothers anniversary of some kind.

[Markalanbishop]

English Oceans = Let it Bleed. Same basic pacing, iconic song to close album, etc. Of course, I'm feeling pretty Zen right about now.

[Jack Flash]

At long last, I present my (absurdly long) review of English Oceans. Only a couple of months late.

http://jeremyetc.com/2014/04/27/drive-b ... sh-oceans/

And with that, I have now finished reviewing the entire DBT catalog, an undertaking I began four and a half months ago. You can read all the reviews at this link:

http://jeremyetc.com/2013/12/11/drive-b ... tory-page/

[Tequila Cowboy]

At long last, I present my (absurdly long) review of English Oceans. Only a couple of months late.

http://jeremyetc.com/2014/04/27/drive-b ... sh-oceans/

And with that, I have now finished reviewing the entire DBT catalog, an undertaking I began four and a half months ago. You can read all the reviews at this link:

http://jeremyetc.com/2013/12/11/drive-b ... tory-page/

Nice. Just read the EO review so far. Black & Blue . Do you hear that Beantown?

[oilpiers]

At long last, I present my (absurdly long) review of English Oceans. Only a couple of months late.

http://jeremyetc.com/2014/04/27/drive-b ... sh-oceans/

And with that, I have now finished reviewing the entire DBT catalog, an undertaking I began four and a half months ago. You can read all the reviews at this link:

http://jeremyetc.com/2013/12/11/drive-b ... tory-page/

Nice. Just read the EO review so far. Black & Blue . Do you hear that Beantown?

Hand of Fate, the single most underrated Stones song of all time, would fit on EO. Shit Shots is pure Exile, but I do think of the Sex Pistols at the beginning. A perfect example of a band being influenced by another band, yet keeping it their own.

[Zip City]

Recently gave this one a listen after a few weeks on the shelf.

A couple of thoughts:

First Air of Autumn stuck out to me in a way it never had before, and I mean that in a good way.

Hate to say it, but Primer Coat is easily my least favorite song on the album

[Iowan]

Hate to say it, but Primer Coat is easily my least favorite song on the album

For being interested in a fair amount of the same type of music (I think we all do, or we wouldn't be here), we couldn't be any farther apart on the specifics.

"Primer Coat" has just grown on me with every listen. It's absolute top shelf DBT for me.

[Clams]

Hate to say it, but Primer Coat is easily my least favorite song on the album

Come on Zip, I know you've got a couple of daughters. That song should be tugging on your heart strings.

[Zip City]

FIrst off, "least favorite" doesn't mean bad.

Second, the lyrics are great on this one. But the music is JUST SO BORING

[PeterJ]

FIrst off, "least favorite" doesn't mean bad.

Second, the lyrics are great on this one. But the music is JUST SO BORING

I can get behind this sentiment. I like the song, it just doesn't stand out for me like it has for so many of you, and I think Zip may have nailed it.

[linkous]

Hate to say it, but Primer Coat is easily my least favorite song on the album

For being interested in a fair amount of the same type of music (I think we all do, or we wouldn't be here), we couldn't be any farther apart on the specifics.

"Primer Coat" has just grown on me with every listen. It's absolute top shelf DBT for me.

Primer Coat struck me as a goodie from the first time we all heard it on that radio show that was playing tracks before the leak emerged. It has been my favourite song on the album since I first heard the leak. The guitar reminds me a bit of REM from when they were any good.

[Zip City]

FIrst off, "least favorite" doesn't mean bad.

Second, the lyrics are great on this one. But the music is JUST SO BORING

I can get behind this sentiment. I like the song, it just doesn't stand out for me like it has for so many of you, and I think Zip may have nailed it.

And I get that given the subject matter in the song, the music is appropriate, but despite that intellectual connection, the music does nothing for me on a visceral level

[Tequila Cowboy]

And I get that given the subject matter in the song, the music is appropriate, but despite that intellectual connection, the music does nothing for me on a visceral level

From the "we all know too much about each other's musical tastes" department, I'm pretty sure I know exactly where you are coming from especially after reading this from linkous:

The guitar reminds me a bit of REM from when they were any good.

I think he's spot on and that similarity or homage or whatever you want to call it was accentuated when Peter Buck played on the song at Homecoming. From comments you've made in the past about early R.E.M. you didn't find those songs very interesting from a musical standpoint either. A lot of us disagree and find that early perions of R.E.M. to be their best work. All of that btw is completely OK, but I do think that's part of the disconnect between folks that love it and you who find it to be your least favorites (presumably you're not the only one and others could have similar views).

[Zip City]

Yeah, early REM is a mixed bag for me. Not to derail the thread too much, but I got into REM via Document and Green, and only own the Document --> Automatic for the People run of records. Some of the early stuff is quite good, but nothing I go back to frequently.

That said, I've never made the connection between Primer Coat and REM. There are other records I quite like that have a more obvious influence ("The King is Dead" by The Decemberists most notably).

[Markalanbishop]

Hate to say it, but Primer Coat is easily my least favorite song on the album

For being interested in a fair amount of the same type of music (I think we all do, or we wouldn't be here), we couldn't be any farther apart on the specifics.

"Primer Coat" has just grown on me with every listen. It's absolute top shelf DBT for me.

PC grew on me too. First couple of listens I found it somewhat "boring" musically, but then something clicked and that went away. Partly it's the lyrics I guess--I have 3 daughters, one of whom is getting officially engaged soon. I was glad to hear Patterson say that Jay's guitar solo was his favorite guitar part on the album because that was a highlight for me from the beginning. It's so melodic and beautiful and I love how it restates Cooley's melody at the end. To me it sounds like something Slash would play, and I mean that as a compliment.

[Barely_Oakely]

I really love primer coat. I'd have to say it's my favorite song on the album. On the other hand, on of my best friends and fellow DBT junkie gives it a C+ at best.
This all got me wondering how I rank the tunes on the album, so, here's my breakdown... Today... At this very moment.... Subject to changes at any time...

primer coat
grand canyon
first air of autumn
natural light
Shit shots count
when walter went crazy
pauline hawkins
hanging on
hearing jimmy loud
til he's dead or rises
made up english oceans
When he's gone
part of him

[linkous]

I really love primer coat. I'd have to say it's my favorite song on the album. On the other hand, on of my best friends and fellow DBT junkie gives it a C+ at best.
This all got me wondering how I rank the tunes on the album, so, here's my breakdown... Today... At this very moment.... Subject to changes at any time...

primer coat
grand canyon
first air of autumn
natural light
Shit shots count
when walter went crazy
pauline hawkins
hanging on
hearing jimmy loud
til he's dead or rises
made up english oceans
When he's gone
part of him

I am a member of several bands message boards, and have been a member of others in the past, and I think I can say without fear of contradiction that the DBT fans on this board are the most diverse bunch out of all of them. And I mean that as a compliment. I normally find that most albums being discussed on other boards have 3 or 4 songs (if you're lucky) that nearly everybody agrees are the big highlights, the rest of the songs are pretty much up in the air as to who likes what, apart from any obvious clunkers. It's testament to the strength of EO that there is no clear consensus as to which are the 3 or 4 strongest songs (because there are so many contenders), and I reckon that each of the 13 songs will have at least one person who would vouch for it as their favourite song on the album. I doubt very much you would find that anywhere else.

My ranking at the moment is.

primer coat
natural light
When he's gone
first air of autumn
grand canyon
Shit shots count
made up english oceans
when walter went crazy
pauline hawkins
hearing jimmy loud
hanging on
til he's dead or rises
part of him

[Duke Silver]

Alright, ranking time!

Yeh
Shit Shots Count
Primer Coat
Hearing Jimmy Loud
Grand Canyon
English Oceans
First Air of Autumn
Natural Light
Pauline Hawkins

Meh
The Part of Him
Hanging On
When Walter Went Crazy

Neh
When He's Gone
Til He's Dead or Rises

[lotusamerica]

Hell Yeh
Shit Shots Count
Primer Coat
Grand Canyon
Pauline Hawkins

Yeh
Hearing Jimmy Loud
Natural Light
Til He's Dead or Rises
When Walter Went Crazy
First Air of Autumn
Hanging On

Meh
English Oceans
When He's Gone
The Part of Him

[Kudzu Guillotine]

I am a member of several bands message boards, and have been a member of others in the past, and I think I can say without fear of contradiction that the DBT fans on this board are the most diverse bunch out of all of them.

I agree. On other boards I've been a member of, there's usually been some resistance to new music. On others, I've experienced a read adversity to alt.country. I chalk it up to fear of the unfamiliar and/or those that just chose to live in the past and don't want to be challenged musically, which is their fucking loss. Here, I've seen pretty much every type of music discussed, which is very refreshing compared to those other boards.

[allisonsdc]

Interesting to see everyone's rankings of the EO tracks. The Part of Him is my favorite song on the album, so I was surprised to see that it's at the bottom or toward the bottom of some lists. There's not a song on this album that I don't like, but my order of song preference is:

The Part of Him
Pauline Hawkins
Shit Shots Count
First Air of Autumn
Grand Canyon
Made Up English Oceans
Hearing Jimmy Loud
When He's Gone
Primer Coat
When Walter Went Crazy
Til He's Dead or Rises
Hanging On
Natural Light

[Barely_Oakely]

Gotta love the diversity. It also shows how strong the album is - I don't think there's a single Dancing Rickey on the whole album.

[beantownbubba]

Some further thoughts on the album:

I'm pretty sure I like this album more because I know the name of the band on the cover than if i didn't, but that doesn't bother me that much anymore. It's also ok because i like it a hell of a lot, so even if it's not quite that good on some objective basis, it's still pretty damn good.

The first four songs make a fantastic start to the album. I suppose "When He's Gone" benefits from its placement but to these ears it also adds to the momentum and cohesiveness of those 4.

None of us were wrong about "Grand Canyon." It's a great song that will have plenty of legs. And it still reminds me of Craig every single time, which is a good thing.

I still don't like the music of "MUEO" and my mind still wanders during "Natural Light" even though i think I like it.

I'm also surprised that "Part of Him" seems to be suffering so much in comparison to other songs. It's not my favorite, but if nothing else it's got that line "he was indifferent to honesty." I mean, c'mon that's a great fucking line I also still love the idea of each of the Dimmer Twins doing their own take on Atwater (or the Atwater-like phenomenon if you prefer) and the songs make a great pairing.

I have a real hard time ranking the songs but just for yucks:

Grand Canyon
Shit Shots Count
Primer Coat
Pauline Hawkins
First Air of Autumn
When Walter Went Crazy
Part of Him
Hearing Jimmy Loud
When He's Gone
Til He's Dead or Rises
Hanging On
MUEO
Natural Light

Songs 6 through 12 are basically indistinguishable to me from a ranking perspective so maybe its
1-5 love
6-12 really like
13 like

[John A Arkansawyer]

I'm also surprised that "Part of Him" seems to be suffering so much in comparison to other songs. It's not my favorite, but if nothing else it's got that line "he was indifferent to honesty." I mean, c'mon that's a great fucking line I also still love the idea of each of the Dimmer Twins doing their own take on Atwater (or the Atwater-like phenomenon if you prefer) and the songs make a great pairing.

You've put your finger on the problem right there: "Made Up English Oceans" is a better song. I like "The Part of Him" well-enough, but not the opening couplet:

He was elected, wingnut raised and corn fed
Teabags dragging on the chamber floor

This puts the song way too much into an overly specific time (wingnuts and teabags, to say nothing of Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters). Sometimes that works. "The Thanksgiving Filter" is a fine song partly because it is rooted in that specific moment. This, less so. There've been Atwaters before and there'll be Atwaters again.

Gotta love the diversity. It also shows how strong the album is - I don't think there's a single Dancing Rickey on the whole album.

No pop song, no obvious single. Bug or feature?

[dbtfan4life]

as of now...

Hearing Jimmy Loud
Shit Shots Count
When Walter Went Crazy
First Air Of Autumn
Pauline Hawkins
Made Up English Oceans
When He's Gone
Grand Canyon
Hanging On
Primer Coat
Till He's Dead Or Rises
Natural Light
The Part Of Him

[lotusamerica]

The first four songs make a fantastic start to the album. I suppose "When He's Gone" benefits from its placement but to these ears it also adds to the momentum and cohesiveness of those 4.

None of us were wrong about "Grand Canyon." It's a great song that will have plenty of legs. And it still reminds me of Craig every single time, which is a good thing.

I still don't like the music of "MUEO" and my mind still wanders during "Natural Light" even though i think I like it.

I'm also surprised that "Part of Him" seems to be suffering so much in comparison to other songs. It's not my favorite, but if nothing else it's got that line "he was indifferent to honesty." I mean, c'mon that's a great fucking line I also still love the idea of each of the Dimmer Twins doing their own take on Atwater (or the Atwater-like phenomenon if you prefer) and the songs make a great pairing.

To me, the Atwater song stories are okay but they don't excite me so much. To each his/her own. They just seem like general, politically-specific observation songs. They don't make me care one way or another. Compare to Puttin' People on the Moon, a political song that makes me care a lot. Or to A Ghost to Most, a song with (seemingly at least) a lot of political references. Both of those songs personalize the issues - they mean something to the narrator. Neither of these songs seems to really matter much, though I do like the twitching on the floor bit quite a lot just because it makes me want to twitch and laugh. Musically, MUEO reminds me kind of a Spaghetti Western cross between Daddy's Cup and Cartoon Gold, both of which I like better.

When He's Gone, to me, just has a kind of clunky chorus with a kind of tortured melody. It also suffers from some of the same indifference of the narrator.

But hell, it don't mean nothin' what I think, and it doesn't mean I don't enjoy both to an extent and more than that on certain nights. I'm not a super fan of character studies for one thing. And I couldn't write the least good song on their least good record, whatever that may be, so props regardless of how they strike me at the moment.