English Oceans Discussion Thread

[Markalanbishop]

I too am on the Birthday Boy bandwagon. Just a great song.

Right now, my favorite Cooley rocker on EO is Hearing Jimmy Loud. It's got that sometime 12 bar, sometime 8 bar, sometime 6 bar, etc. pattern that Cooley writes so well, and his guitar leads kill.

A thing I'm really loving on The Part of Him is how Cooley's banjo break ends on an ascending chord,in opposition to the descending pattern throughout the solo, and then Jay jumps in and continues the ascending chord progression on keys. Just awesome stuff.

[linkous]

Mark me down for The Birthday Boy fan club as well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to do this, but I have been listening to TBTD and GGB with a fresh pair of ears recently. These albums sound a lot better than I remember them being - I probably hadn't played either for 3 or 4 months. Mostly I put this down to me being reinvigorated by the triumph that is EO. Although I still loved the band I just didn't feel that those records were of the same standard as what had come before.
Another reason was that I have also upgraded my speakers big time since the last time I played either album. I now have a pair of floorstanders that kick ass and bring out every detail of the instruments, especially the guitars. For example the guitar playing at the end of The Flying Wallendas is just off the chart, and elevates a decent song to a really good one. The speakers make the dual/triple guitar sound markedly better on several other tracks as well, but that one really sticks out.
I also have mellowed towards the sequencing of the albums, which was a previous criticism I had, and my opinion that they should have released one 14 track album rather than two separate albums has softened to finally seeing them both as living entities in their own right, and deservedly so. I was also never a big fan of Shonna's songs, but now they seem to fit just ok.
Deep down though, I really do put this fresh, positive reappraisal of these two albums down to the good vibes generated by EO.

[McButton]

I was always kind of indifferent to Birthday Boy. I liked it but didn't love it. But since listening to English Oceans more than a few times, I have had Birthday Boy stuck in my head a lot (without recently having listened to TBTD oddly enough) which has bumped it up in my mind.

Cooley's rockers on EO must be contagious I guess.

[Clams]

[RevMatt]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to do this, but I have been listening to TBTD and GGB with a fresh pair of ears recently. These albums sound a lot better than I remember them being - I probably hadn't played either for 3 or 4 months. Mostly I put this down to me being reinvigorated by the triumph that is EO. Although I still loved the band I just didn't feel that those records were of the same standard as what had come before.
Another reason was that I have also upgraded my speakers big time since the last time I played either album. I now have a pair of floorstanders that kick ass and bring out every detail of the instruments, especially the guitars. For example the guitar playing at the end of The Flying Wallendas is just off the chart, and elevates a decent song to a really good one. The speakers make the dual/triple guitar sound markedly better on several other tracks as well, but that one really sticks out.
I also have mellowed towards the sequencing of the albums, which was a previous criticism I had, and my opinion that they should have released one 14 track album rather than two separate albums has softened to finally seeing them both as living entities in their own right, and deservedly so. I was also never a big fan of Shonna's songs, but now they seem to fit just ok.
Deep down though, I really do put this fresh, positive reappraisal of these two albums down to the good vibes generated by EO.

Good post. TBTD and GGB were never in the top tier of DBT albums. (In my mind the four top tier albums are SRO, DD, TDS and BTCD. Too early to determine if EO is in that group but things look good so far.) They suffered in the hardcore fans' estimation because in 2009 we wanted nothing more than another top tier album if only to justify our fanaticism to a six piece band from the south who never had a hit or anything played on commercial radio. When it turned out that TBTD and GGB weren't going to be a top tier record people may have been less than fair. They are good records, not great ones. However, both flirted with greatness enough that we can imagine how a few tweaks here and there could have transformed them into the albums we wished they had been. (Would better sequencing and only one Shonna song been enough to push TBTD into top tier land? Would releasing one 14 track album instead of two albums from the same sessions been the way to go? We have been having this debate here since spring of 2010.) Now it appears that EO might be the record we had wanted TBTD to be. So we can listen GGB and TBTD with a fresh set of ears and appreciate their better moments. They are hardly bottom of the barrel records. If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

[Tequila Cowboy]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

[RevMatt]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

I have always been a huge Black and Blue fan but agree with people who say it isn't a top tier Stones album. GGB is one of my personal fave DBT albums but for aesthetic reasons (not as solid lyrically all the way through as SRO, BTCD, TDS and DD) I don't put it in the top tier. GGB may be the DBT album with the most spins on my turntable.

[Zip City]

Just listened to TBTD today for the first time in awhile. It's not far from being a great album, but a couple of tracks (and, surprisingly, some sequencing) hold it back

[Tequila Cowboy]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

I have always been a huge Black and Blue fan but agree with people who say it isn't a top tier Stones album. GGB is one of my personal fave DBT albums but for aesthetic reasons (not as solid lyrically all the way through as SRO, BTCD, TDS and DD) I don't put it in the top tier. GGB may be the DBT album with the most spins on my turntable.

Well, that's it for me. The only DBT record I listen to more than GGB is DD. Isn't what you listen to most by definition your favorite? I mean there isn't a DBT record I don't love so it's all picking nits but I know what my go to's are and that's how I rank the records. I probably listen to live shows more than anything else which means I gets my fill of songs from other records that I don't listen to as much.

[Gaetzi]

I love Memory Motel and really like Hand of Fate but as a whole, not a big fan of Black and Blue. I think both GGB and TBTD have more good tunes on them than Black and Blue.

[John A Arkansawyer]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

I was thinking recently--might have said it here, somewhere--how glad I was to not have a copy of Black and Blue until just recently, so I could appreciate it without hearing the naysaying nattering nabobs. Bought it the same day as Street-Legal, come to think of it, which also turns out to be a hell of a good record.

[Slipkid42]

Just listened to TBTD today for the first time in awhile. It's not far from being a great album, but a couple of tracks (and, surprisingly, some sequencing) hold it back

Have you come around on Santa Fe yet?

[Zip City]

Just listened to TBTD today for the first time in awhile. It's not far from being a great album, but a couple of tracks (and, surprisingly, some sequencing) hold it back

Have you come around on Santa Fe yet?

It's moving up. Definitely not one I'd cut

[ramonz]

"Birthday Boy" is an okay song.

Is it on Greatest Hits, Vol. II?

[Markalanbishop]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

I was thinking recently--might have said it here, somewhere--how glad I was to not have a copy of Black and Blue until just recently, so I could appreciate it without hearing the naysaying nattering nabobs. Bought it the same day as Street-Legal, come to think of it, which also turns out to be a hell of a good record.

Ah, the good old days of the "nattering nabobs of negativism", the "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history" and the "effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals." (Speaking of political assholery and The Part of Him.)

[beantownbubba]

If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

I love, love, love Black & Blue (sorry beantown) and GGB is my second favorite DBT record (prior to EO, I have no idea if that's going to change yet). It all makes sense now...

You guessed it, Cowboy. Now I'm all confuzzed. I really like GGB. A hell of a lot more than Black & Blue for sure, plus I'd say that GGB is closer to a first tier DBT record than BB is to a first tier Rolling Stones album.

Boy has this thread strayed in all kinds of strange directions.

[RevMatt]

Boy has this thread strayed in all kinds of strange directions.

The first time I ever met any of ya'll in person was in Woodstock, NY the day DBT played Leon's barn. We found this bar run by this Vietnamese lady who turned on the air conditioning in the back room to accommodate the whole group. After about fifteen minutes we had a serious debate about whether The Stones' run should rightfully end in 1978 with Some Girls or 1981 with Tattoo You. Stones' legacy will come up at least once this homecoming.

[John A Arkansawyer]

Boy has this thread strayed in all kinds of strange directions.

The first time I ever met any of ya'll in person was in Woodstock, NY the day DBT played Leon's barn. We found this bar run by this Vietnamese lady who turned on the air conditioning in the back room to accommodate all fifteen of us. After about fifteen minutes we had a serious debate about whether The Stones' run should rightfully end in 1978 with Some Girls or 1981 with Tattoo You. Stones' legacy will come up at least once this homecoming.

Why wait? Undercover is better than Tattoo You.

I was thinking recently--might have said it here, somewhere--how glad I was to not have a copy of Black and Blue until just recently, so I could appreciate it without hearing the naysaying nattering nabobs. Bought it the same day as Street-Legal, come to think of it, which also turns out to be a hell of a good record.

Ah, the good old days of the "nattering nabobs of negativism", the "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history" and the "effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals." (Speaking of political assholery and The Part of Him.)

If I could put one thing from the National Lampoon out for everyone to read at will, I think it'd be Mrs. Agnew's Diary.

[UTHeathen]

Alright, after a few weeks of letting the new record settle in, I think I am finally ready to comment. Even though it hasn't been very long since I got the leaked album, English Oceans has quickly embedded itself into my psyche and musical DNA. I know that I have a very emotional connection with music, but I surprised myself when I got a little choked up the first time I heard Primer Coat. Others have mentioned the sense of maturity, for lack of a better term, that Patterson and Cooley have shown on this record. They have proven that you can be in your 50's (or approaching them at least) and still rock your socks off while dealing with issues that we all face in middle age. I'm really glad to hear the Truckers get back to their rockin' roots. Although I know that everyone has different tastes regarding, well, everything, but some of the songs that people around here have responded to, both positively and not so, have surprised me a little bit. Of course everyone is going to like Shit Shots Count and Grand Canyon, they are two songs that hit hard on a gut level. However, I am surprised by the luke warm response to Pauline Hawkins as I really dig it. Patterson is the best at writing anti-love love songs (see Don't be in Love Around Me), and the instrumentation and especially the coda in this song really hit the spot for me. I also love Til He's Dead or Rises. The juxtaposition of Cooley singing a Patterson song is fabulous. Makes me want to see a show (on April 1st maybe) where Patterson sings Cooley's songs and vice versa. How fun would that be? Not so sure about the rabid enthusiasm for Hearing Jimmy Loud. After reading other comments regarding the subject matter of this song, I think it's pretty obvious that there are some subtle (or not) lyrical references to former band members, and the anti-guitar solo seems to be making a point as well. To me, this is Cooley's Assholes. On the flip side, I love First Air of Autumn. The short first verse followed by an instrumental break to let it set in is absolutely brilliant. Cooley still surprises me that even with his "tough guy" persona, he still can write a song that sends tears streaming down my face. It's this emotional roller coaster that makes the music so powerful (see Grateful Dead). I really wanted to give this album a little time before I formulated an opinion on it, as everyone tends to be a little less than objective with brand new music. That being said, English Oceans is an instant classic, not a skipper on it, maybe not on the same level as Decoration Day, but seriously, what is? I can't wait to see the new songs played live out in the wild!

[Tequila Cowboy]

Boy has this thread strayed in all kinds of strange directions.

The first time I ever met any of ya'll in person was in Woodstock, NY the day DBT played Leon's barn. We found this bar run by this Vietnamese lady who turned on the air conditioning in the back room to accommodate all fifteen of us. After about fifteen minutes we had a serious debate about whether The Stones' run should rightfully end in 1978 with Some Girls or 1981 with Tattoo You. Stones' legacy will come up at least once this homecoming.

Why wait? Undercover is better than Tattoo You.

Oh no! I listened to that record maybe twice when it came out and thought it was terrible, I mean really bad and I love Tattoo You.

[Clams]

I love Tattoo You! And it seems that I like it more as I get older. Undercover... really? ?

[Kevidently]

I don't want to derail the thread, but as time goes on I think "Birthday Boy" may be the best Cooley song period. Or it could just be I have a soft spot for hookers.
I couldn't be more pleased with Cooley's output on this record, but I still don't think anything touches "Pulaski" or "BB" off the last couple records. But as they say, art ain't a contest.

"Birthday Boy" is THE song that got me into DBT! So, I would put it high on my list!

[ramonz]

Prolly the wrong place to say it, but I kind of dug Undercover too. Granted, etc., but the title song was some crazy shit, and there was some nasty tension b/w the Glimmers that (I think) made for some pretty good listening. Steel Wheels wasn't bad either.

[RevMatt]

The Rolling Stones need to record an album with at least three Cooley covers. "Shit Shots Count" sung by Mick. "Gravity's Gone" sung by Keef. "Carl Perkins' Cadillac" sung by both.

[beantownbubba]

Oh no! I listened to that record maybe twice when it came out and thought it was terrible, I mean really bad and I love Tattoo You.

This can't be true because I basically agree w/ it (I'd substitute "really like" for "love").

[Tequila Cowboy]

Oh no! I listened to that record maybe twice when it came out and thought it was terrible, I mean really bad and I love Tattoo You.

This can't be true because I basically agree w/ it (I'd substitute "really like" for "love").

Some powerful forces have been disrupted. Watch out.

[Erdlivz]

Made Up English Oceans is still without a doubt after numerous listens my favorite song off this album.

I love everything about it lyrically and musically. I feel like I'm riding next to Cooley and DBT on horseback.

[GuitarManUpstairs]

Made Up English Oceans is still without a doubt after numerous listens my favorite song off this album.

I love everything about it lyrically and musically. I feel like I'm riding next to Cooley and DBT on horseback.

Do you have your shirts on?

[Erdlivz]

Made Up English Oceans is still without a doubt after numerous listens my favorite song off this album.

I love everything about it lyrically and musically. I feel like I'm riding next to Cooley and DBT on horseback.

Do you have your shirts on?

Me and Patterson have a maroon button-up on with sweat pouring through...... Cooley has double pistols to the side with a rock-modified of sorts shirt on looking like a badder ass Doc Holliday. Patton keeps drifting away from the pack in all smiles looking at the landscape. EZ B has a huge hand rolled cig on his bottom lip on a semi-shabby horse. Jay is keeping us in line and riding with the gear on a stagecoach.

[Kevidently]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to do this, but I have been listening to TBTD and GGB with a fresh pair of ears recently. These albums sound a lot better than I remember them being - I probably hadn't played either for 3 or 4 months. Mostly I put this down to me being reinvigorated by the triumph that is EO. Although I still loved the band I just didn't feel that those records were of the same standard as what had come before.
Another reason was that I have also upgraded my speakers big time since the last time I played either album. I now have a pair of floorstanders that kick ass and bring out every detail of the instruments, especially the guitars. For example the guitar playing at the end of The Flying Wallendas is just off the chart, and elevates a decent song to a really good one. The speakers make the dual/triple guitar sound markedly better on several other tracks as well, but that one really sticks out.
I also have mellowed towards the sequencing of the albums, which was a previous criticism I had, and my opinion that they should have released one 14 track album rather than two separate albums has softened to finally seeing them both as living entities in their own right, and deservedly so. I was also never a big fan of Shonna's songs, but now they seem to fit just ok.
Deep down though, I really do put this fresh, positive reappraisal of these two albums down to the good vibes generated by EO.

Good post. TBTD and GGB were never in the top tier of DBT albums. (In my mind the four top tier albums are SRO, DD, TDS and BTCD. Too early to determine if EO is in that group but things look good so far.) They suffered in the hardcore fans' estimation because in 2009 we wanted nothing more than another top tier album if only to justify our fanaticism to a six piece band from the south who never had a hit or anything played on commercial radio. When it turned out that TBTD and GGB weren't going to be a top tier record people may have been less than fair. They are good records, not great ones. However, both flirted with greatness enough that we can imagine how a few tweaks here and there could have transformed them into the albums we wished they had been. (Would better sequencing and only one Shonna song been enough to push TBTD into top tier land? Would releasing one 14 track album instead of two albums from the same sessions been the way to go? We have been having this debate here since spring of 2010.) Now it appears that EO might be the record we had wanted TBTD to be. So we can listen GGB and TBTD with a fresh set of ears and appreciate their better moments. They are hardly bottom of the barrel records. If I was making a Stones comparison, TBTD is DBT's It's Only Rock and Roll while GGB is their Black and Blue.

Once again, I have to pull out the "discovering the band fairly recently" card. Because I got the onslaught of albums all at once - I heard TBTD before Decoration Day, for instance - I have always thought TBTD was one of their very finest records. GGB, in my estimation, is a bit of a step down, but with tracks like "Mercy Buckets," "Where's Eddie," "I Do Believe," "Used to Be a Cop" and more, it's certainly not a BAD record. I think my remove allows me to not only level the field in regards to the rest of their catalogue, but also with each other. In the same way people lump Springsteen's Human Touch (a poor album with some good tracks) with Lucky Town (a terrific album) simply because they were released on the same day, I think people put TBTD and GGB together because they were released so closely together. I'm not sure that's fair to TBTD, which has an incredibly strong roster of songs. Hood's got the opening one-two salvo of "Daddy Learned to Fly" and "The Fourth Night of My Drinking," plus "Drag the Lake Charlie," "Santa Fe," and, if we're talking bonus tracks, "Girls Who Smoke" - one of his very best. Two of Cooley's top-tier rockers, "Birthday Boy" and "Get Downtown" (both still played frequently at the Rock Show) are high profile here. Hell, Shonna's two tracks are probably her very best with the band. I don't know as if you can ask much more from a record.