DBT in Rock History

Talk about the songs, the shows, and anything else DBT related here.

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Tequila Cowboy
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by Tequila Cowboy »

beantownbubba wrote:
But the JUDGMENT that Trinity Sessions is an album of "quiet, understated beauty" does not depend at all on how many tracks it was recorded on or where it was recorded. Those facts may explain HOW they did it, but it doesn't change WHAT they did.


Of course it did, Beantown. If the album had been made in LA with 64 tracks and studio overdubs it wouldn't have been the same album and people might never have listened to it, or given it the credit it has gotten even all these years later. As far as DBT goes Pizza Deliverence was recorded on the cheap and it absolutely informs my opinion of it. I'm with dime on this, context is everything.
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by beantownbubba »

Tequila Cowboy wrote:
If the album had been made in LA with 64 tracks and studio overdubs it wouldn't have been the same album and people might never have listened to it, or given it the credit it has gotten even all these years later.


I agree w/ this. But since i still think we disagree on the larger point, i guess i'm just not making my point. OK, i accept that. But let me ask the young 'uns this: Don't you hate it when the old folks like me say to you: You had to be there, u can't really understand this or that album unless u were there, unless u understand its impact at the time, unless u get the context? And don't u think that generally speaking, that's bullshit, that if an album were any good, it would just sound good, w/out having to read a book about it first?

And just to stop one likely tangent: Yes, an album's "importance" is often related to its context, like being the first to do x or the first to cross y boundary. It's one reason why Jimi Hendrix is important and Robin Trower is, in historical terms, an also ran. But just once more: I thought we were talking about the quality of the music here not its "historical importance" or any other criteria.

Just one more question while i'm at it: Say you thought that the 2 best singles ever were The Beatles' "A Day in the Life" and Steam's "Kiss Him Goodbye" and you had to decide between them. Would you dock Day in the Life because the Beatles had the help of George Martin? Would you add or detract from Steam (i dont know which way it cuts) because they weren't even a real group? If so, please explain why those are relevant criteria to the quality of either song.
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EddieHinton
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by EddieHinton »

Hey Zip, How do you see DBT as regional?

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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by Slipkid42 »

cortez - sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here. It was a subject that has piqued my interest for awhile, and I figured this was about the best place that I could see how others felt. 'Sides I figured if we were talking onesies and all that, then this should be fair game.
I'm gonna whip out my copy of Zuma, and slap it on my new LP to digital turntable, and try to see what's got you so upset.
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by Slipkid42 »

bubba - I agree with what you're saying 100%. If we're evaluating music for the musics' sake then it should stand alone on it's' own merit, regardless of the circumstances surrounding its' creation. If we're rock historians then it matters if the Beatles visited the Dhali Lama or not (or whether DBT had a plug nickle when they released PD).

zip - I know I don't appear too cyber savvy (and I'm not), but I just do not see a quote button in each person post. The only quote button I see is after I hit the post a reply link. The quote box is over the big box that I type my reply in. When I hit that button 2 sets of brackets w/ quote pops up. I copy and paste what I'm trying to quote and it appears in my post inside a box; but without the name of who I'm trying to quote. Too be honest I'm not that crazy about the boxed quote concept. It can become repetitious at times, and when you get 4 or 5 of them inside each other it gets confusing. I'm sure Al Gore ain't crazy about how much of his cyber space it's sucking up either (it does remind me of that cool mirror in the endless mirrors effect you get at the barbershop though).
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by cortez the killer »

Slipkid42 wrote:cortez - sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here. It was a subject that has piqued my interest for awhile, and I figured this was about the best place that I could see how others felt. 'Sides I figured if we were talking onesies and all that, then this should be fair game.
I'm gonna whip out my copy of Zuma, and slap it on my new LP to digital turntable, and try to see what's got you so upset.

You owe me no apologies. I shouldn't have posted it. I've been wasting too many years on a DBT message board and I get bored easily. However, once you figure out their place in rock history, just shoot me a pm.

Zuma is a good one. Get your tequila-fueled/coked out, welcome to Crazy Horse Poncho vibe on. That will be easier to place in rock history. Just don't go spouting off about context and all though. Apparently, you may alienate the young pups.
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by Slipkid42 »

No the quote button is not there (on any of my computers). Probably explains why I cant fix any of my crappy grammar. I don't see an edit button either.


beantownbubba wrote: (<<-- I typed this)
And just to stop one likely tangent: Yes, an album's "importance" is often related to its context, like being the first to do x or the first to cross y boundary. It's one reason why Jimi Hendrix is important and Robin Trower is, in historical terms, an also ran. But just once more: I thought we were talking about the quality of the music here not its "historical importance" or any other criteria.

Just one more question while i'm at it: Say you thought that the 2 best singles ever were The Beatles' "A Day in the Life" and Steam's "Kiss Him Goodbye" and you had to decide between them. Would you dock Day in the Life because the Beatles had the help of George Martin? Would you add or detract from Steam (i dont know which way it cuts) because they weren't even a real group? If so, please explain why those are relevant criteria to the quality of either song.


Loved your Hendrix to Trower analogy (even if Bridge of Sighs is one of my favorite albums). Steam wasn't a real band? Who'da thunk it? You learn something new every day.
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by Slipkid42 »

cortez - I may be geezin' too, but I'm kicked back with a stogie; listening to Danger Bird (forgot how much I loved that one).
All is good on the mid-Atlantic front. Thanks for helping me remember something I should never have forgotten. The crunchiness of Neil w/ Crazy Horse. On a side note, I don't know how you feel about Nils Lofgrens' stint w/ Crazy Horse (I love his solo work), but the 1st concert that I went to was Nils when he was w/ Grin at my high school in So. Maryland in 1973 (and it was during class).
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by dime in the gutter »

cortez the killer wrote:Zuma is a good one. Get your tequila-fueled/coked out, welcome to Crazy Horse Poncho vibe on. That will be easier to place in rock history. Just don't go spouting off about context and all though. Apparently, you may alienate the young pups.

sampedro don't want u talking about tequila and coke fueled crazy horse poncho vibes. it matters not.

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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by RevMatt »

Regarding context and circumstances: I think it matters sometimes but not always.

Consider Warren Zevon's The Wind, an album he recorded while dying. The context is essential because that is what the album was about. The context impacted the songs, performances and the guests who appeared on it.

But in other cases, the context doesn't. Most Bob Dylan albums the context and circumstances of his life don't really impact the music. He writes a batch of songs, selects a producer, hires session guys, goes in and does his work. The exceptions in Dylan's case are The Basement Tapes and the three albums he released as a born again Christian. The Basement Tapes was a highly informal collaboration. And the three albums he put out as a born again Christian, well, his religious beliefs were the entire point of the albums.
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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by midniterambler »

beantownbubba wrote:What the hell, I'll try one more time: For sure, understanding the circumstances in which an album is made helps to understand the songs and the album's "gestalt." The examples i gave above are, i think, very appropriate and Rumours is another classic example.

But the JUDGMENT that Trinity Sessions is an album of "quiet, understated beauty" does not depend at all on how many tracks it was recorded on or where it was recorded. Those facts may explain HOW they did it, but it doesn't change WHAT they did.

As I understand it, none of those "extrinsic factors" is relevant to how one evaluates the ultimate QUALITY of the album in relation to other albums, or dare i say it, history. If, for argument's sake, a band overcame huge adversity in making an album, e.g. one of the members had a life threatening illness and recovered, a tornado blew down the recording studio, somebody else's dog died and another member was going thru a bitter divorce, it might be a miracle that the album got made. But if the songs suck, they suck, and if they're great, they're great. And if a song on the album is a metaphor for the band member's illness and recovery, than knowing about the illness will help one understand the song. But I don't think the song gains or loses "points" because of the subject or because of how difficult it was to write and record. If that wasn't the question, than i apologize for the thread hijacking, but that's what i thought dime was asking.


I agree.


I understand why some people might factor in the circumstances of an album's recording when they're rating and/or comparing albums, BUT.......to me that doesn't matter. I think what matters is the end result. Not how it was made. For example, I could say that Exile On Mainstreet was easier for the Stones to record in '71/'72 than Dirty Work was in '85/'86. During the Dirty Work sessions, the Stones were falling apart and Mick Jagger was embarking on a solo career. It looked as if the band were going to break up. Bad times indeed compared to the endless party in the South of France during the recording of Exile. So should we say that Dirty Work is as good or even better than Exile because the Stones had to pull that album out of a difficult situation? Should Dirty Work get spotted 3 stars on a 5 star rating scale because the Stones were falling apart during the recording?

As far as DBT goes, I doubt many people would argue that A Blessing and A Curse is weaker than SRO, Decoration Day, and TDS, although I'm sure some people love ABAAC. But we know that was recorded during a rough patch for the band, and Patterson had said that the band had a great time recording Decoration Day. So which one is better? It's a rhetorical question, but the point is that the cirucumstances of an album's recording really only matters to fans. It helps us understand an album more and maybe makes us appreciate it more, but in the end, I don't think it should factor in our judgement of the music itself. The music should stand on it's own, which I believe is what most artists want in the first place.

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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by EddieHinton »

[quote]Zip City wrote 2 - Though they tour a lot, they are stubbornly regional [/quote]
Zip City wrote:
EddieHinton wrote:Hey Zip, How do you see DBT as regional?


I'm basing that on their touring tendencies, which stubbornly favor the southeastern part of the country. I know that's where they live and that they don't like touring for more than 2 weeks at a stretch anymore, but you don't build a fan base by "preaching to the choir". Ask those of us in the midwest and west coast how many shows we've seen compared to those in Alabama/Georgia.

The Patterson/Cooley solo shows are almost exclusively in the south as well

EDITED TO ADD:

They've done a better job this year (24 of 48 shows in the south), but in 2009, 34 of the 46 shows listed on oneofthesedays.org were in the south.

EDIT #2:

I also didn't mean to imply that DBT is in any way a "regional act". Clearly there are tons of fans around the country (and around the world). The touring observation was made mostly in comparing the band to other road warrior/no radio play bands.


Calling them stubbornly regional isn't implying that they are a regional act, it is saying that they are a regional act. They must have played around 1500 shows in the last 10 years in about 46 states and a dozen countries. Regional My Ass

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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by joelle »

EddieHinton wrote:


Calling them stubbornly regional isn't implying that they are a regional act, it is saying that they are a regional act. They must have played around 1500 shows in the last 10 years in about 46 states and a dozen countries. Regional My Ass


i love this post
sincerely

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Re: DBT in Rock History

Post by EddieHinton »

Zip City wrote:if DBT were around in the 70's, they'd be as big as any of those bands.

in the 00's, their type of music doesn't get radio play, and isn't a priority of record labels


I think Zip got it right, right here. Hopefully ATO will be different

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