DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

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Clams
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DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Clams »

A somewhat under the radar track off Decoration Day, Heathens isn't usually mentioned when people list Patterson's best songs... but it probably should be. To me, Heathens is about our need for acceptance and saying "fuck you" to anyone who doesn't give it to you. It's got a couple really great lyrics, especially the opening line (which should resonate with anyone who's got a wife... lol) and "It gets so hard to keep between the ditches/when the roads wind the way they do," which somehow manages to perfectly sum up life in just 17 words. I also love the interplay between Neff's pedal steel and Scott Danbom's fiddle in the last minute of the song.

Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
If we get the van out of the ditch before morning ain't nobody got to know what I done
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
And I don't need to be forgiven by them people in the neighborhood
When we first hooked up, you looked me in the eye
and said "Paw, we just ain't no good".

We were Heathens in their eyes at the time, I guess I am just a Heathen still
and I never have repented from the wrongs that they say I have done
I done what I feel.

It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean and strong
When you tell me that it's getting a little bit tight, ain't the first time I been outgrown
And I'm gonna push a little harder
She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
I'll walk away

And I don't need to be forsaken by you or anybody else
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Heathens.

These times can take their toll sometimes and I know you feel the same way too
It gets so hard to keep between the ditches
when the roads wind the way they do.


Discuss....
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by PeterJ »

For some reason, "She ain't revved till the rods are thrown" has always been the line in that song for me. I can't tell you what it is about it, it just feels so damn right and true.

I do love the keeping it between the ditches line as well.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by beantownbubba »

One of Patterson's very best songs for sure. Almost Cooleyesque in the way that he throws off attention grabbing lines and couplets that are practically perfect. Not sure i can even count 'em all, but they surely include:

The 1st line (wrinkle in your forehead) sets a perfect, totally recognizable scene simply and directly.

As noted above, she aint revved until the rods are thrown is as good a statement of intent as i can think of (works great w/ "i aint got no good intentions"

No shortage of people telling him of the dangers he poses to himself & not needing to be forgiven by the folks in the neighborhood - great description of a stubborn (not so) old cuss.

And the ditches line is wonderful and a handy dandy utility tool for anyone to have in his/her phrasebook, as well as an unarguable observation :)
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by bovine knievel »

One of my favs.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Smitty »

My no doubt all-time favorite DBT song. The melancholy tone, the weeping pedal-steel, the fiddle, Cooley's solo, the song sounds like the artwork on Decoration Day looks like... or more likely, the artwork looks like Heathens sounds. At the Dirt Underneath show in Atlanta, 9/28/07, Patterson said he wrote this at the Freeds house, and they thought it was about them - and then he said "I guess it was". I can relate to the song in a lot of ways, but instead of conjuring up some memories that should be painful, they don't have the same sting when I'm in the "heathens" state of mind. Healing music. Shonna's first song with the band too I believe?

1:37 is my favorite part of any song - this is the song that clinched it for me.
I love it.
I never had a shortage of people trying to warn me of the dangers I pose to myself
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by littlemamma »

It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone
I'll walk away

There's lots of amazing lines in this song, which is just a privilege to see live, esp. with Jay now, but those two up there got me good.
that and knowing it's ok to be a heathen.
I'm alright with it.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by never going back »

It gets so hard to keep between the ditches
when the roads wind the way they do.


That's my favorite line in Heathens. Great tune.
Can you hear that singing? Sounds like gold...

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by hpz4 »

This is one of my top 5 DBT songs. It has so many great lines that have already been mentioned. The closing line might be the best in a DBT song. I love the intro, too.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by The Black Canary »

Something about that wrinkle in your forehead....

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by OtisTheBulldog »

Easily one of my favorites. The line I can't really decipher is "It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean & strong". The rest of the song seems pretty evident to me, but this one has always thrown me. And I also think it's a killer start to a second verse, even if I"m not sure what it means.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Clams »

OtisTheBulldog wrote:Easily one of my favorites. The line I can't really decipher is "It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean & strong". The rest of the song seems pretty evident to me, but this one has always thrown me. And I also think it's a killer start to a second verse, even if I"m not sure what it means.


I've wondered about that one myself, Otis.

I've also wondered about "When we first hooked up, you looked me in the eye and said "Paw, we just ain't no good." I've always assumed that "hooked up" means in the boyfriend/girlfriend sense. If so, why is she calling the singer "Paw" (which I'm assuming means dad)? Of course my assumptions could both be wrong.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Smitty »

Clams wrote:
OtisTheBulldog wrote:Easily one of my favorites. The line I can't really decipher is "It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean & strong". The rest of the song seems pretty evident to me, but this one has always thrown me. And I also think it's a killer start to a second verse, even if I"m not sure what it means.


I've wondered about that one myself, Otis.

I've also wondered about "When we first hooked up, you looked me in the eye and said "Paw, we just ain't no good." I've always assumed that "hooked up" means in the boyfriend/girlfriend sense. If so, why is she calling the singer "Paw" (which I'm assuming means dad)? Of course my assumptions could both be wrong.


I always took it as a term of endearment, like the way some women call their men "daddy"
E quindi uscimmo a riveder le stelle.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by dime in the gutter »

Clams wrote:I've also wondered about "When we first hooked up, you looked me in the eye and said "Paw, we just ain't no good." I've always assumed that "hooked up" means in the boyfriend/girlfriend sense. If so, why is she calling the singer "Paw" (which I'm assuming means dad)? Of course my assumptions could both be wrong.

Image
lucas mccain and son mark mccain

i always think of the rifleman when i hear this line. no context as far as the song goes....but i like the imagery.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by joelle »

Zip City wrote:
OtisTheBulldog wrote:Easily one of my favorites. The line I can't really decipher is "It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean & strong". The rest of the song seems pretty evident to me, but this one has always thrown me. And I also think it's a killer start to a second verse, even if I"m not sure what it means.


When the person was born, it was a difficult delivery (baby wasn't healthy at birth maybe?) but now they've grown up mean and strong.

seems pretty straight forward to me

maybe
i kind of thought it was not about a 'person' per se
seemed like it was more about their relationship
(starting out troubled, now they are strong...)
i came to this because of the word "it" and "it's"

either way, the meaning is the same...i agree with zip.
and







wait :o
what is that :?:



















hell just froze over.

awesome 8-) ;)

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Smitty »

joelle wrote:
Zip City wrote:
OtisTheBulldog wrote:Easily one of my favorites. The line I can't really decipher is "It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean & strong". The rest of the song seems pretty evident to me, but this one has always thrown me. And I also think it's a killer start to a second verse, even if I"m not sure what it means.


When the person was born, it was a difficult delivery (baby wasn't healthy at birth maybe?) but now they've grown up mean and strong.

seems pretty straight forward to me

maybe
i kind of thought it was not about a 'person' per se
seemed like it was more about their relationship
(starting out troubled, now they are strong...)
i came to this because of the word "it" and "it's"



thats my take too
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by cortez the killer »

This is easily one of my favorite Truckers songs. Shonna's bass is steady as she gets on this one. Neff's pedal steel and Danborn's fiddle breathe melancholy magic into it. Patterson's weary delivery sets the tone perfectly. Jason's harmonizing is simply sublime. Listen closely. It's fucking amazing. Themes I hear/think of when I listen to this song include:

Disillusionment with married life.
Dealing with the demands of adulthood.
Yearning for simpler time of less responsibility and more freedom.
Hardheadedness for the sake of maintaining foolish pride.

I think the narrator here is in the early stages of where the narrator in Cooley's "Space City" winds up. (I'm not saying the songs are linked or that the subject matters are similar. I'm simply speaking to a man's state of mind.) Cooley's character confesses "If I could have one wish right now, I'd be about as half as tough as I pretend I am." It's a naked, vulnerable admission to limits of one's will. Patterson's character hasn't come to grips with this realization yet. He's gonna keep fighting the fight. He won't give in. He's gonna continue to swim against the current, no matter what the cost.

Again, what an amazing song. Great selection Clams (other than the somewhat under the radar comment).
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Gator McKlusky »

I have always loved this song as well; anybody who has ever been married can identify with the first line.

I have been lucky enough to see this one live a couple of times with Scott Danborn sitting in; just alsum.
Looks like a bunch of little whiny fucksticks to me

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by RevMatt »

I saw Patterson play this one at an in store.

The song opens with an image that any guy who has ever been married can relate to, whether it is a wrinkle in her forehead, the way she is putting away the dishes or even the sound of her footsteps coming up the stairs. We've all been there and the first line hooks us.

I take the song to mean that when the couple first met up they took the world on their own terms. Now, after however many years, things are changing. At least for her they are. She cares what the neighbors think. And she wonders how long things can go on like they are. She's at that point, maybe a decade into the relationship where she is reassessing her life. The man, who is the narrator, isn't having it. From his perspective this is unfair. He is still the same person she fell in love with and doesn't see the reason to change.

It is a relationship at a crossroads.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Smitty »

Heathens>Sounds Better In The Song>Somethings Gotta Give>Your Daddy Hates Me unintentionally (I think) tell a sad little story - in fact I never really think of it that way, but I guess it's DBT's "divorce" album - here's Patterson's commentary from drivebytruckers.com:

7. Heathens
Patterson: This song and Sounds Better in the Song provide the center of gravity for this album.
Heathens was originally to be the title track and it's probably the strongest of the songs that I wrote for this record.
I particularly love the interplay between Cooley's almost Eddie Hinton-esque guitar part juxtaposed against my original chord progression.
Jason put down two tracks of E-Bow guitar, John Neff again plays pedal steel and Scott Danborn again plays fiddle.
"She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
E quindi uscimmo a riveder le stelle.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by RevMatt »

And if ya'll will indulge me a bit of personal experience...

For most of my years as a minister I served in rural communities. I enjoyed the area but, as a minister, I was always sort of looked down on by the folks in the town. I never quite got why this was. I was raised in the 'burbs where education and a profession usually conferred automatic respect in the community. Someone, however, clued me into a concept called "the level of respectability" and how it differed in rural communities than where I was from. In the upper class 'burbs, professions that require a high level of education and separate credentials are at a high level of respectability. However, in rural communities, those whose businesses employ the most people are at the higher levels of respectability. They are followed by those who are self-employed and self-reliant such as farmers. Those people who are "below the level of respectability" are those who do not own their own property and who relied on others for work. As a minister, I lived in church owned housing and cashed a check that was funded by donations put in the plate by people in the town. This would not be a big deal in any upper class community. But in a rural community I was below "the level of respectability." I wasn't quite at the bottom. That was for the people who drank too much, let their lawns go to seed, only worked sporadically and relied on welfare occasionally. But I was closer to them in terms of community respect than I was to the guy who owned the mill. Didn't matter that I had a Masters degree or had a fancy title. I was considered something of a charity case or, to use the title of the song, a "heathen." And my kids were treated that way too.

I think "Heathens" is about a family living below the level of respectability. She's getting tired of it. He pretends not to give a crap, but probably does a little. He can't change and doesn't really want to. He's a heathen in their eyes. A heathen in this context is someone below the level of respectability. The song rings true to my experience. I think the years of living in rural communities where our family was considered below the level of respectability contributed to the failure of my marriage. But that's another story for another song.
Last edited by RevMatt on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Clams »

Interesting stuff Rev, and right on the money too.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Clams »

Smitty wrote:Heathens>Sounds Better In The Song>Somethings Gotta Give>Your Daddy Hates Me unintentionally (I think) tell a sad little story - in fact I never really think of it that way, but I guess it's DBT's "divorce" album - here's Patterson's commentary from drivebytruckers.com:

7. Heathens
Patterson: This song and Sounds Better in the Song provide the center of gravity for this album.
Heathens was originally to be the title track and it's probably the strongest of the songs that I wrote for this record.
I particularly love the interplay between Cooley's almost Eddie Hinton-esque guitar part juxtaposed against my original chord progression.
Jason put down two tracks of E-Bow guitar, John Neff again plays pedal steel and Scott Danborn again plays fiddle.
"She ain't revved till the rods are thrown



Interesting to compare Heathens ad Sounds better in the Song. Both singers are losing their girl because they're clinging to what they used to be. The guy in Heathens, he doesn't want to change and he doesn't care what anyone thinks. The guy in Sounds Better, he sounds completely defeated, like he just took a fist to the stomach.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by OtisTheBulldog »

RevMatt - very well said in both posts.

I also like the "difficult delivery" to refer to the inception of the relationship. Thanks all for the perspective on that.

I like this game. Looking forward to the next one.

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Duke Silver »

RevMatt wrote:And if ya'll will indulge me a bit of personal experience...

For most of my years as a minister I served in rural communities. I enjoyed the area but, as a minister, I was always sort of looked down on by the folks in the town. I never quite got why this was. I was raised in the 'burbs where education and a profession usually conferred automatic respect in the community. Someone, however, clued me into a concept called "the level of respectability" and how it differed in rural communities than where I was from. In the upper class 'burbs, professions that require a high level of education and separate credentials are at a high level of respectability. However, in rural communities, those whose businesses employ the most people are at the higher levels of respectability. They are followed by those who are self-employed and self-reliant such as farmers. Those people who are "below the level of respectability" are those who do not own their own property and who relied on others for work. As a minister, I lived in church owned housing and cashed a check that was funded by donations put in the plate by people in the town. This would not be a big deal in any upper class community. But in a rural community I was below "the level of respectability." I wasn't quite at the bottom. That was for the people who drank too much, let their lawns go to seed, only worked sporadically and relied on welfare occasionally. But I was closer to them in terms of community respect than I was to the guy who owned the mill. Didn't matter that I had a Masters degree or had a fancy title. I was considered something of a charity case or, to use the title of the song, a "heathen." And my kids were treated that way too.

I think "Heathens" is about a family living below the level of respectability. She's getting tired of it. He pretends not to give a crap, but probably does a little. He can't change and doesn't really want to. He's a heathen in their eyes. A heathen in this context is someone below the level of respectability. The song rings true to my experience. I think the years of living in rural communities where our family was considered below the level of respectability contributed to the failure of my marriage. But that's another story for another song.


Damn...awesome post. I think you nailed it.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by beantownbubba »

Damn, some of what i wanted to say got said between the last time i looked and now, but what the hell...

I think the song has to be taken in context, meaning both the musical arrangement and its place on the album (followed by "Sounds Better in the Song").

At face value, the lyrics are about a hellraiser who's proud of it. He's not gonna change and doesn't see why he should. But obviously, this is no rocked out barnburner of a song of the type that would normally go w/ that sort of defiant attitude (and which, btw, DBT has been known to do pretty well). Coupled w/ Patterson's vocal delivery, the shades of meaning, the doubts, the confusion undercut the relatively straightforward portion of the lyrics and create some beautiful ambiguity - about what the narrator really thinks and about what we should think about him. And then comes "Sounds Better in the Song", same subject, different conclusion, or at least the guy is in a different place on the continuum than in Heathens - older or wiser or more self-aware or more defeated or all of the above. Together, they're just brilliant. I'd like to think that it was intentional, Smitty, but of course i dont know.

I initially thought the "difficult delivery...mean and strong" lines were about the couple's son and the man's relationship w/ the kid, and I suppose it could be. But now i think the better interpretation is that it's about the relationship.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by cortez the killer »

beantownbubba wrote:I initially thought the "difficult delivery...mean and strong" lines were about the couple's son and the man's relationship w/ the kid, and I suppose it could be. But now i think the better interpretation is that it's about the relationship.

If it is about the relationship, the use of "delivery" is odd - certainly creates an image of childbirth. Then he goes on to refer to it as "it's" (as in 'it is'). The easy way out is to conclude the use of "it" would seem to indicate he's not referring to a person, let alone his own flesh and blood. Then again, maybe he's so fed up with his life and his family, that he's referring to his own child as it. I tend to think the line refers to the birth and development of their child. It looked like he (or she) wasn't going to make it, but now he/she is growing up "mean and strong" just like his/her Paw wants it to be - a fellow heathen.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by joelle »

lyrically speaking:
It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean and strong
When you tell me that it's getting a little bit tight, ain't the first time I been outgrown
And I'm gonna push a little harder
She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
I'll walk away


what i said:
maybe
i kind of thought it was not about a 'person' per se
seemed like it was more about their relationship
(starting out troubled, now they are strong...)
i came to this because of the word "it" and "it's"




cortez the killer wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:I initially thought the "difficult delivery...mean and strong" lines were about the couple's son and the man's relationship w/ the kid, and I suppose it could be. But now i think the better interpretation is that it's about the relationship.

If it is about the relationship, the use of "delivery" is odd - certainly creates an image of childbirth. Then he goes on to refer to it as "it's" (as in 'it is'). The easy way out is to conclude the use of "it" would seem to indicate he's not referring to a person, let alone his own flesh and blood. Then again, maybe he's so fed up with his life and his family, that he's referring to his own child as it. I tend to think the line refers to the birth and development of their child. It looked like he (or she) wasn't going to make it, but now he/she is growing up "mean and strong" just like his/her Paw wants it to be - a fellow heathen.




as i continue to reread this section of lyrics
i love the use of 'child birth' , "delivery", the birth or beginning of something
i think it is purposely vague (and clever) and can be interpreted as either , or, both.

my reasoning for, (my belief) it is a relationship
continues with
the next lines:
it's getting a little bit tight, ain't the first time I been outgrown
she has outgrown him
he does not fit (with her) anymore because she has changed and he has not
And I'm gonna push a little harder
She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
I'll walk away


he is gonna keep pushin
does not know when to stop
he is going all out
then
he'll walk away


personally, i cannot see it being about a child at all (him, her, their child)
also
paw is what she called him affectionately when they first met
(like baby,babe, mama, etc.)
nothing paternal in my eyes

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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by cortez the killer »

A very sound and rational interpretation of Heathens. I think if you view the opening line of that verse as being a throw-in to paint a broader picture (letting you know there are children involved), you could come to a different conclusion. I don't necessarily think the verse is meant to be read as a tradtional paragraph. I see each line as another piece to the puzzle. I'm not saying either one of us is right or wrong. I completely see how you come to your conclusion. I just happen to approach it differently.
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by Smitty »

joelle wrote:lyrically speaking:
It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean and strong
When you tell me that it's getting a little bit tight, ain't the first time I been outgrown
And I'm gonna push a little harder
She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
I'll walk away


what i said:
maybe
i kind of thought it was not about a 'person' per se
seemed like it was more about their relationship
(starting out troubled, now they are strong...)
i came to this because of the word "it" and "it's"




cortez the killer wrote:
beantownbubba wrote:I initially thought the "difficult delivery...mean and strong" lines were about the couple's son and the man's relationship w/ the kid, and I suppose it could be. But now i think the better interpretation is that it's about the relationship.

If it is about the relationship, the use of "delivery" is odd - certainly creates an image of childbirth. Then he goes on to refer to it as "it's" (as in 'it is'). The easy way out is to conclude the use of "it" would seem to indicate he's not referring to a person, let alone his own flesh and blood. Then again, maybe he's so fed up with his life and his family, that he's referring to his own child as it. I tend to think the line refers to the birth and development of their child. It looked like he (or she) wasn't going to make it, but now he/she is growing up "mean and strong" just like his/her Paw wants it to be - a fellow heathen.




as i continue to reread this section of lyrics
i love the use of 'child birth' , "delivery", the birth or beginning of something
i think it is purposely vague (and clever) and can be interpreted as either , or, both.

my reasoning for, (my belief) it is a relationship
continues with
the next lines:
it's getting a little bit tight, ain't the first time I been outgrown
she has outgrown him
he does not fit (with her) anymore because she has changed and he has not
And I'm gonna push a little harder
She ain't revved till the rods are thrown
I'll walk away


he is gonna keep pushin
does not know when to stop
he is going all out
then
he'll walk away


personally, i cannot see it being about a child at all (him, her, their child)
also
paw is what she called him affectionately when they first met
(like baby,babe, mama, etc.)
nothing paternal in my eyes


you nailed what I've always got from the song
E quindi uscimmo a riveder le stelle.

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lajakesdad
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Re: DBT Tracks - Week # 3 - Heathens

Post by lajakesdad »

This is my favorite DBT song too.I think it was near the top of a favorite song poll back on 9B. I also agree with joelle and smitty's interpretation. Everything about this tune is perfect.

When I first heard it, I thought the first line was somethin 'bout the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fifth 'bout to get drunk

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