Zip City wrote:but what are "Self Destructive Zones"?
I assume they're places, literal or figurative, where self-destructive people hang out or are enabled or where self-destructive behavior is encouraged or enabled. Could be the bar where amy winehouse & friends hang out, could be the club that sid vicious plays at, could be the corner where the junkies hang, could be your bedroom if you're self-destructive. I think it's fair to say that the music industry as a whole might qualify, or at least certain aspects of it like the hangers on, scene makers, dealers,etc (i.e., in Smitty's term, the r&r lifestyle).
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
Zip City wrote:but what are "Self Destructive Zones"?
I assume they're places, literal or figurative, where self-destructive people hang out or are enabled or where self-destructive behavior is encouraged or enabled. Could be the bar where amy winehouse & friends hang out, could be the club that sid vicious plays at, could be the corner where the junkies hang, could be your bedroom if you're self-destructive. I think it's fair to say that the music industry as a whole might qualify, or at least certain aspects of it like the hangers on, scene makers, dealers,etc (i.e., in Smitty's term, the r&r lifestyle).
(checks mic, motions to soundman)...This thing on?
Zip City wrote:but what are "Self Destructive Zones"?
I assume they're places, literal or figurative, where self-destructive people hang out or are enabled or where self-destructive behavior is encouraged or enabled. Could be the bar where amy winehouse & friends hang out, could be the club that sid vicious plays at, could be the corner where the junkies hang, could be your bedroom if you're self-destructive. I think it's fair to say that the music industry as a whole might qualify, or at least certain aspects of it like the hangers on, scene makers, dealers,etc (i.e., in Smitty's term, the r&r lifestyle).
(checks mic, motions to soundman)...This thing on?
"i think it's fair to say that the music industry as a whole might qualify" was intended as an acknowledgement of your post, Duke. The intent of the first 2 sentences was to take off from your post to make what i thought was a broader point that it's not so much about the "places & systems" as about the person/people but obviously it's related to your point. To the extent that it's not as different as i thought, i apologize.
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
beantownbubba wrote:I dunno. If that last verse is about hunting, I think that's some pretty bad songwriting right there.
It is a metaphor. And a damn good one at that.
Really? A metaphor? Ya think? Rev Matt, I know you well enough not to be insulted by what would on its face be a pretty damn insulting comment (though I did have to take a deep breath ). I'd think you know me well enough to know that I understand that it is a metaphor, but i don't happen to think it's a very good one, if it's about hunting.
Sorry, didn't mean to spread bad vibes. Just gonna blame it on the heat.
I have nowhere else to go. There is no demand in the priesthood for elderly drug addicts
I read a piece on Dylan once that described him as an image-monger*. I think Cooley does that, too, sometimes, stacking one thing on top of another with no meaning but the images themselves in juxtaposition with each other. Trying to shoehorn them into more standard devices of meaning isn't productive.
*There's a reason it was T. S. Eliot and Ezra Pound fighting in the captain's tower.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be
Zip City wrote:but what are "Self Destructive Zones"?
Places/systems/industries that attract self-destructive people, thereby destroying themselves by design... i.e. the music business? No idea really, just a guess.
Smitty wrote:I always figured it was the r & r lifestyle
beantownbubba wrote:I assume they're places, literal or figurative, where self-destructive people hang out or are enabled or where self-destructive behavior is encouraged or enabled. Could be the bar where amy winehouse & friends hang out, could be the club that sid vicious plays at, could be the corner where the junkies hang, could be your bedroom if you're self-destructive. I think it's fair to say that the music industry as a whole might qualify, or at least certain aspects of it like the hangers on, scene makers, dealers,etc (i.e., in Smitty's term, the r&r lifestyle).
Excellent work! Kind of completes the song for me.
John A Arkansawyer wrote:I read a piece on Dylan once that described him as an image-monger*. I think Cooley does that, too, sometimes, stacking one thing on top of another with no meaning but the images themselves in juxtaposition with each other. Trying to shoehorn them into more standard devices of meaning isn't productive.
*There's a reason it was T. S. Eliot and Ezra Pound fighting in the captain's tower.
With Cooley, I don't think the images are random. But you interpret one in the context of the other. Not all of his songs have the more abstract images. Many are concrete. But songs like "Self Destructive Zones" and "Cartoon Gold" are that way.
I have nowhere else to go. There is no demand in the priesthood for elderly drug addicts
John A Arkansawyer wrote:I read a piece on Dylan once that described him as an image-monger. I think Cooley does that, too, sometimes, stacking one thing on top of another with no meaning but the images themselves in juxtaposition with each other. Trying to shoehorn them into more standard devices of meaning isn't productive.
With Cooley, I don't think the images are random. But you interpret one in the context of the other. Not all of his songs have the more abstract images. Many are concrete. But songs like "Self Destructive Zones" and "Cartoon Gold" are that way.
I don't think they're usually random with Cooley or with Dylan. I just think they follow their own logic.
The sooner we put those assholes in the grave&piss on the dirt above it, the better off we'll be
Sorry, I missed the rule where I have to praise every single DBT song like it's the best thing ever written.
I stand by my statement; I think the lyrics are cool, but the music is just okay. Near the bottom of Cooley's contributions to the band. Doesn't mean I skip it when it comes up on BTCD, though.
EDIT: SDZ came in at #81 on my DBT Top 100 (pre-GGB)
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
Zip City wrote:Sorry, I missed the rule where I have to praise every single DBT song like it's the best thing ever written.
I stand by my statement; I think the lyrics are cool, but the music is just okay. Near the bottom of Cooley's contributions to the band. Doesn't mean I skip it when it comes up on BTCD, though.
EDIT: SDZ came in at #81 on my DBT Top 100 (pre-GGB)
I think you might be misinterpreting me. Fun lyrics, boring music describes most DBTs, imo. Zip City? The song? Couldn't be more boring musically, but it's my favorite Truckers song. There's nothing wrong with it when you bring what they do lyrically and they rock so hard live. And with the exception of Space City, none of few songs I find "interesting" are Cooley songs.
I think "boring" misses the point with SDZ or with many DBT songs. SDZ is Z three chord song (basically) and still can rock your nuts off. The simple ones are the hardest to write yet I would say mist of the greatest songs of all time are three or four chords. Heck SDZ and Bob are not that far apart musically but have completely different sounds. Boring to me are songwriters that throw in chord changes just because as opposed to serving the song.
We call him Scooby Do, but Scooby doesn’t do. Scooby, is not involved
Smitty wrote:I don't find the the musical part of DBT boring at all - it's one of my favorite aspects of the band.
Agreed, and though the chord structure of their songs is usually simple, the melodies are good. I don't think the SDZ melody is all that interesting, though. In general, Cooley's melodies are more interesting to me, just not this one
And I knew when I woke up Rock N Roll would be here forever
Smitty wrote:I don't find the the musical part of DBT boring at all - it's one of my favorite aspects of the band.
Agreed, and though the chord structure of their songs is usually simple, the melodies are good. I don't think the SDZ melody is all that interesting, though. In general, Cooley's melodies are more interesting to me, just not this one
Gotcha -
personally, no matter how great a band/artist's lyrics are, if they're musically boring I couldn't spend much time listening to them.
Smitty wrote:I don't find the the musical part of DBT boring at all - it's one of my favorite aspects of the band.
Agreed, and though the chord structure of their songs is usually simple, the melodies are good. I don't think the SDZ melody is all that interesting, though. In general, Cooley's melodies are more interesting to me, just not this one
Spooner is great in Self Destructive Zones. Great guitar solos too. What's not to like?
Smitty wrote:I don't find the the musical part of DBT boring at all - it's one of my favorite aspects of the band.
Agreed, and though the chord structure of their songs is usually simple, the melodies are good. I don't think the SDZ melody is all that interesting, though. In general, Cooley's melodies are more interesting to me, just not this one
They're similar to Dylan in that way. Very simple music, but the lyrics and the phrasings are where they separate themselves. And then bringing enthusiasm in spades live.
Smitty wrote:I don't find the the musical part of DBT boring at all - it's one of my favorite aspects of the band.
Agreed, and though the chord structure of their songs is usually simple, the melodies are good. I don't think the SDZ melody is all that interesting, though. In general, Cooley's melodies are more interesting to me, just not this one
They're similar to Dylan in that way. Very simple music, but the lyrics and the phrasings are where they separate themselves. And then bringing enthusiasm in spades live.
Dylan who?
What used to be is gone and what ought to be ought not to be so hard
Sorry for being a couple of weeks late with this, but I've had beyond a full plate as of late (and while I've kept up with reading great post after great post), I've been hard pressed to sit down and join the discussion.
* * * This is an alsum thread - SDZ may have the coolest sounding lyrics of all, and thanks to everyone they make a lot more sense now. The only thing I want to add concerns the practice fire /dragon verse. I think the dragon is fate or destiny: as in, wake up boys, it ain't gonna happen so hang it up already. The stoner trying to save the amp is Patterson (who probably did this in real life), but more as a metaphor for Patterson risking everything - and wanting to risk everything - to make AHC and then DBT work. While I know the entire band risks everything everyday to try to make a living as a band, I see Patterson (per that interview in ASTAHE), as the hard liner about this (not in a hardass way, but as someone who HAS to make it work, so in a why quit now kind of way). I'm guessing that Cooley was watching everything fall apart around him, seeing the practice room fire as an omen about how things were going, while watching Patterson not get the drift that the dragon was actually trying to do him a favor. Lucky for us, Cooley chose GMU's option number 3 and chose to follow through on the dream on his terms and no one else's.
* * * On the topic about DBT's music being boring? Bullshit. DBT's catalogue, in terms of difficulty and diversity of style, stacks up with anyone and anything out there. I can't remember the last time I listened to a DBT song and didn't pick up something new in the music, or in how the five (and now six) parts work together. SDZ is as good an example of this as anything else.
Ahoy! Love this song and happy to read the topic dedicated to it!
I always thought that this song was a literal interpretation of grunge "arriving" in the early '90's and subsequently wiping out the hair metal bands. I think (the first three verses at least) are a first-person account of what transpired to the music scene in the early '90's. It's primarily concrete storytelling from Cooley coupled with some aliteration and metaphors to progress and imbelish the story. I'm guessing that the story telling is a combination of actual experiences and a fictionalization of events.
It was 1990 give or take I don't remember when the news of revolution hit the air The girls hadn't even started taking down our posters when the boys started cutting off their hair The radio stations all decided angst was finally old enough it ought to have a proper home Dead fat or rich nobody's left to bitch about the goings-on in self destructive zones
So in this verse, I think he sets the story in the early '90's when hair metal was dominating FM radio. The "news of revolution" was grunge "hit(ting) the air". I think the taking down of posters and haircuts alludes to the youth of America realigning themselves with the fresh music/fashion scene. Radio stations placing angst ridden music on the stations (which is a common characterization of grunge music ), coupled with the fact that all of the breaking grunge bands were commonly aligned with the Generation Y and the voice of the youth of America at the time.
The night the practice room caught fire there were rumors of a dragon headed straight for Muscle Shoals "Stoner tries to save an amplifier" and it's like the dragon's side of the story is never told When the dream and the man and the girls hang around long enough to make you think it's coming true, it's easier to let it all die a fairy tale, than admit that something bigger is passing through
Not sure exactly about the 1st line of the 2nd verse... I always pictured this as either Adam's House Cat or Cooley jamming/rehearsing/recording and getting a first listen of 'the new hotness' on the radio and basically thinking "OK, apparently this is the new direction of FM radio... we're all (80's metal, classic rock type bands) pretty much fucked now." The dragon is the grunge music scene and the fire (which dragons breathe) is the decimation of the current music scene (glam rock, southern rock, 80's cheese metal, etc.) "The dream, the man (The Man; record execs, managers etc.) and the girls" are all of the hangers-on of mega rock bands of the 80's (e.g. Poison, Motley Crue, etc.) giving the bands false hope that the burgeoning grunge scene is nothing more than a fad and that they will weather the storm of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains; it's easier to be naive or be in denial than admit that major change is on the way and serious adjustments will have to be made ("easier to let it all die a fairy tale than admit that something bigger is passing through").
The hippies rode a wave putting smiles on faces, that the devil wouldn't even put a shoe Caught between a generation dying from its habits, and another thinking rock and roll was new Till the pawn shops were packed like a backstage party, hanging full of pointy ugly cheap guitars And the young'uns all turned to karaoke, hanging all they're wishes upon disregarded stars
I think the 3rd verse aludes to the beginning of the 80's pop metal scene. I think that this is what the "hippies" line aludes to (though I woudn't necisarilly qualify them as hippies). I think he's saying that the 80's essentially rode the wave of Zeppelin, Floyd and other major rock bands and just kind of did the 'color by numbers', generic music scene that was just an extension, rather than being unique forging new musical territory. Maybe that's why he calls them hippies; generally speaking the bands of that era were more focused on getting laid and getting high than their music contributions. The 70's "generation was dying from it's habits" (Morrison, Joplin, Bonham, Moon, etc.) and when the grunge boom hit, the kids from the '90's saw genuine bands that were trying to 'say something' and thought this was something new and fresh, (which we know NOT to be the case). The pawnshop line refers to all the kids that were emulating the Poisons, Wingers and Cinderellas with flying V guitars and the ilk, trading them in or getting rid of them because when grunge became big, the big frills and over the top theatrics and look of '80's music was terribly uncool... Not really sure what the karoake line means- maybe it's referring to the die hard '80's fans that still loved the cheese metal and the only way they could get their thirst quenched was via karoake bars, or non-main steam avenues. The disregarded stars are of course referring to the 80's bands ("stars") that quickly fell out of favor.
My Grandaddy's shotgun is locked in a closet and it never shot a thing that could have lived An old man decided that you couldn't choose your poison till you're nearly old enough to vote for him They turned what was into something so disgusting even wild dogs would disregard the bones Dead fat or rich nobody's left to bitch about the goings' on in self destructive zones
The last verse of kind of the one that does not really flow with the song. It reminds me of Dylan (which a lot of you brought up) in that there is no linear flow from this verse to the previous verses; almost like 'Tangled Up in Blue' where it just sort of segues from one story to another without much, if any explanation. It could also be speaking about late '80's politics and how a lot of the 'Regan-omics' were thrown out the window in the Clinton Era. Choose your poison clearly refers to drinking alcohol; were the drinking age laws changed in the south in the 80's? Whatever was changed, Cooley certainly did not approve of!
Finally I think the self-destructive zones refers to the grunge scene and 80's scene in general; seemed that it was very destructive in general; there was a lot of loss from that era; dead (Layne Staley, Kurt Cobain, Shannon Hoon, etc... can't think of any 80's casualties off the top of my head), fat; there were others that faded into obscurity (got fat?) and are touring the state fair circuits (Candlebox from the grunge era; take your pick from the '80's!) and rich; still popular and relevant 20 years later (Nirvana, Pearl Jam from grunge and Def Lep, GnR, etc. from the '80's). The rich ones don't bitch, the dead ones can't bitch for obvious reasons and the fat ones (i.e. irrelevant ones) don't have the power, voice or platform to bitch. That's all I got.
veon wrote:Not sure exactly about the 1st line of the 2nd verse... I always pictured this as either Adam's House Cat or Cooley jamming/rehearsing/recording and getting a first listen of 'the new hotness' on the radio and basically thinking "OK, apparently this is the new direction of FM radio... we're all (80's metal, classic rock type bands) pretty much fucked now." The dragon is the grunge music scene and the fire (which dragons breathe) is the decimation of the current music scene (glam rock, southern rock, 80's cheese metal, etc.) "The dream, the man (The Man; record execs, managers etc.) and the girls" are all of the hangers-on of mega rock bands of the 80's (e.g. Poison, Motley Crue, etc.) giving the bands false hope that the burgeoning grunge scene is nothing more than a fad and that they will weather the storm of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains; it's easier to be naive or be in denial than admit that major change is on the way and serious adjustments will have to be made ("easier to let it all die a fairy tale than admit that something bigger is passing through").
Great post, Veon - can't argue with any of it except the fact that from what I've heard of AHC, they weren't a hair metal or classic-rock type band.
Why thank you Smitty... I didn't set out to write War and Peace, but here we are! yeah, I don't think AHC fit into either of those genres... I just got the sense that he heard the "new wave" of grunge hitting FM radio and then they were like "Oh shit, that doesn't sound like us... how are we gonna make it now?"
). I'd think you know me well enough to know that I understand that it is a metaphor, but i don't happen to think it's a very good one, if it's about hunting.
