Forbes agrees with me that kickstarter might be a better solution:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leorgalil/2 ... nsumption/

The mentality of an honest young person trying to understand the economics of the situation:

http://bostinno.com/channels/music-pira ... id-lowery/

Damn sounds like I missed all the fun. I'm not sure that i understand where this thread has gone, anyway. Best as i can tell, it comes down to 2 things 1. Art should be free because, well, because it's art. 2. It's not that consumers get to decide winners and losers in the marketplace for ideas, ar...

Knock this shit off NOW. LJ wants to fuck up any reasonable debate and next thing you know he'll be calling someon a cunt again, or Hitler or some other bullshit. He's not interested in a fair exchange of ideas. I like this thread and I won't have LJ do it what he does to every other reasonable deb...

Of course you're right kendix, to a point. Satire is protected in a performance up to a certain line. Without that protection Saturday Night Live would not exist. I don't think renting a licensed costume and going on an anti semetic rant has the same protections as it obviously isn't satire. But fr...

Free speech is sancrosanct, free speech while wearing an Elmo costume (or any other licensed costume) is not. That's a slippery slope. What if you wanted to stage a public political protest over Disney's racist depictions in Fantasia? Should Disney be able to silence you if you decide to dress up l...

I bet Elmo's creator is real happy. Should s/he have the right to prevent that slimeball from donning an Elmo costume (assuming the slimeball bought the costume legitimately in the first place)? Interesting question of moral rights v. censorship. Arguably, anti-Semite Elmo is engaging in political ...

By the way, I mentioned this book earlier, but anyone who is interested in the history of commerce and politics and how it relates to morality should read, "Debt: The First 5,000 Years" by David Graeber. As an anthropologist, he looks at the history of markets and debt and asks the questio...

Hmmm. As a music nerd, I consider music a singular phenomenon, but I'm sure huge film and video game nerds would say the same thing about movies and video games. Like I wrote in my piece, I think music transcends consumerism in a myriad of ways. My relationship with music is totally unlike my relat...

I have thrown my hat into the ring! My response to Lowery's letter is up on my website here: m Well-written, thought-provoking piece Jack. Nice job. “Why are we willing to pay for computers, iPods, smartphones, data plans, and high speed internet access but not the music itself?” I like how you zer...

We do have something similar to moral rights in this country but it generally applies to the visual arts and what can be done to the work. For example, you can't buy somebody's painting and then use it as a dartboard without the artist's consent. This was codified in the Visual Artists Rights Act. I...

I don't think this is nearly as much a morality issue as you do. I think it is an industry that now has unnecessary middlemen in it; that gouge the consumer to the detriment of the artist. Some of us consumers have decided that we don't like the going rate (so we download for free) & some of th...

kendix, If you thought that you would get in trouble for downloading 'freebies', then you prolly wouldn't. I wouldn't either. Nothing overly philosophical about that. This is a truly excellent point and perhaps explains why otherwise law-abiding citizens would engage in widespread IP theft. Is the ...

kendix, I don't think I've been hypocritical. I admitted that I downloaded 'free' music. I also know that the artists wish we wouldn't do that. I've also admitted that I don't feel too guilty about it. That doesn't mean that I don't know it's wrong, it just means that I've weighed both sides of the...

Huh? I can only fight one battle at a time. In order to discuss the rights and wrongs of downloading i don't see why i have to get into, much less take a stand on, the historically unfair, even outrageous, imbalance between music companies and artists. Yes, there are plenty of ways in which standar...

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:These artists deserve to be paid for their work by actually purchasing their records. If you illegally download one of their officially released albums that's theft, plain and simple.

Wait. I still don't get it. Could you break that down one more time for me?

I'm not in a band (not sure what that even has to do with anything), I'm a music fan who supports my favorite artists by actually purchasing their records, not stealing from them. Oh boy, you ARE really different from me. Glad to know the pure at heart are holding it down for all the scumbags like ...

kendix, If you think that downloading music against the artist's wishes is not somehow 'stealing' from them, then you're wrong. ALL of the other pertinent points you may have made along the way really added nothing to the conversation (to me anyway). In your scenario the artists would mainly surviv...

Kudzu Guillotine wrote:Seems pretty simple to me.

That's obvious.

As I've also already stated, I am slightly morally corrupt. I have 'justified' why I do what I do. I think they charge too much, I have already bought most of what I have downloaded over the years in one media format or another & I am paying back the man for historically overcharging me. None o...

Just to clarify i was using "artist" in that context to mean the rights holders generally. I agree that's not always the actual recording artist. As to artists being fucked over by labels, we're back to 2 wrongs don't make a right. My mother would love this convo Lauryn Hill's reputed wis...

The part that comes through my speakers & touches my ears, Mr. Webster. Like I said, justify it however you want to; but you are taking it against their wishes. I find it disturbing that you as a spokesman for group #2 as stated above are doing something you so clearly believe is wrong but cont...

But we are getting something that is tangible. The artist's work. tan·gi·ble   [tan-juh-buhl] adjective 1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial. 2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine. 3. definite; not vague or...

you do need to look up the difference between objective and subjective at some point. I might be a sinner, but I try not to steal people's livelihoods. No, I don't. You do. sub·jec·tive   [suhb-jek-tiv] adjective 1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object o...

Intellectual property is not the obvious thing that other forms of property appear to be. It's complex and subtle and highly dependent on government regulation. I don't think of downloading in terms of theft, but I do think of it in terms of a musician not having gas money. Make of that what you wi...

Fascinating thread (and I haven't even read any of the articles). I've downloaded oodles of 'free' music. I don't feel especially guilty about it (but then I've always been slightly morally corrupt). I 'justify' it by the fact that most of it is older shit I've already paid for, but have lost along...

I can't let you off that easily, kendix. I'm with you all the way on the finger pointing and the [mis]characterization of people in moral terms. Yes, we're all human and most of us are trying to do the best we can. But there's still this fundamental disconnect between the 2 basic points of view her...

John A Arkansawyer wrote:Which makes it a good time to drop this link: Of Flying Cars and the Declining Rate of Profit

This is a great article by the way. David Graeber is awesome. Have you read "Debt: The First 5,000 Years"?

I completely agree with you. I think we're all in the human being camp. The only difference between #2 and #3 is the moral certainty of the actor involved, which I guess means the only real difference here is how bad you feel about what you're doing. So I guess if all those damned kids would just fe...

OK, it's clear from most of the later responses that some of you either aren't reading what I write or simply have no interest in trying to understand the point of view I'm advocating. But it made me think of something interesting. Let's say we all accept that donwloading music is stealing. It's obj...

No, I don't have all the answers but copyright laws are pretty clear, even if they've been dragged in the mud a bit in the last fifteen years. You can slice it up any way you want to but by definition downloading music for free that is clearly for sale elsewhere IS UNQUESTIONABLY stealing. There re...